Problems with band member

[Riffer]

So my band has a issue with our singer. It's been going on for awhile now and it's coming to a head soon. I'll just list the things we are dealing with and see if I can get some feedback/opinions

- Unreliable transportation. They have gone through 4 cars in 6 years. This in turn puts unnecessary stress on the other band members when we are on time to the gig but she is running late because she had to borrow a car or even worse Uber to a gig. We then have to talk to the sound guy and let him know that we won't be able to do a complete soundcheck because of her lateness. At clubs/casinos this is a very very bad look. She's also been so late because of car problems that she almost missed the first dance songs at a wedding we were performing at. And just last gig she showed up 20 minutes before we were suppose to start when I sent a note out 3 days prior saying that the venue specifically says to be there 1 hour before we start.

- She doesn't know how to sacrifice things and she's awful with her money. She will drive an hour and a half to the beach to hang out with her friends on a Sunday and spend money on drinks/food/tolls or tickets to have her car put on the Ferry to get from one beach town to the other but then might not make it to the gig or rehearsal because her car is fucked. Instead of just staying at home on a day off and saving that money and putting it towards her car issues, she has super bad FOMO (Fear of Missing Out) and needs to go out and enjoy herself or be seen.

- Bad attitude. She does not take criticism well and gets defensive anytime you tell her what to do. We want to add new songs and flush out the older songs that we play that don't really get a response or are just outplayed. We tell her this and her first thing is to mention we should bring back a song that is 10+ years old when we literally just discussed moving forward with newer content for songs. She says she doesn't "understand" why we have this plan. We are a cover band. If we don't keep it fresh, then other bands will and we will get left behind. She was late to a acoustic duo gig 2 weeks ago and she didn't even apologize to the guitar player until AFTER the gig in a text. And the apology wasn't even a good one. She showed up at 6:05, the gig started at 6:00. Her text read "Sorry for the tardiness but also not sorry...LOL i was due to the there at 5:15!!!!"

- Lack of professionalism. We write setlists and tape them somewhere that is easily seen by the band members. Mine is usually on my mic stand or somewhere in my direct line of sight. Our keyboardist has his taped to his keyboards. Drummers is on his laptop usually. Our singer doesn't do that and just walks over to the keyboards while she's in the middle of a song and starts looking at what songs are next. It looks awful. She needs to be interacting with the crowd but she's looking at the setlist like she's deciding on what to get off a menu at a fine dining place while trying to sing a Whitney Houston song. Lately she's been refusing to sing certain songs. She said she doesn't want to sing "Respect" by Aretha Franklin. That's one of our best songs. The crowds love it and we do it well. She said her voice hurts. To me that means she's not taking care of her tool that she uses in the band. If I said I couldn't play Sweet Child O Mine because my guitar doesn't work properly, everyone would look at me and tell me to figure it out. We can not stop playing our best songs because you aren't taking care of your voice. Also we all use IEM (In Ear Monitors). We've been using them for about 5 years now. For some reason she has just decided to not use hers anymore. She never told anybody she was going to do this or gave a reason. We played a wedding a few weeks ago with a sound guy we use often. He knows our setup. We run our own in ear monitors and he just has to worry about front of house sound. Well she shows up without her earbuds and the sound guy doesn't have any monitors because he doesn't need them when he does sound for us. So now she can't hear herself that well and is out of key on certain songs. She even crouched down next to my amp cabinet to try and find the key but was still completely wrong. Also we run a laptop with a click and some samples. If she can't hear that then she will be coming in late for certain songs. And even if there was a stage monitor for her, we can't run click to that because then the crowd would hear the click track too.

So we are planning on having a meeting with her. It was suppose to happen 2 weeks ago at rehearsal but we had to cancel rehearsal because of her car issues. Last night we were suppose to rehearse and have the talk but guess what, cancelled because of her car issues again! I write this long winded post to see what your guys thoughts/opinions are on this. What would you do/suggest? Have any of you been in a similar situation? How did you handle it? How did it go? Did you get rid of said person or try and work it out?

- Thanks!

 

[ArtDecade]

Cover bands, especially ones doing weddings, need reliable members. She has to go. If you want to be clever about it, ask her if she has anyone in mind that can second her if she can't make the gig - and then offer this person the actual gig.

 

[sleewell]

whats the point of the meeting?!? if you all agree and what you are saying is even just 20% true replace her like 3 weeks ago.

life is way too short for that nonsense. i don't deal with adult children well at all and have very low tolerance for what you are describing.

 

[mpexus]

You know the answer on what to do... but if you need another reassurance reply here it is:

- Kick her out YESTERDAY!

 

[Demiurge]

What's her position on capos though?

In seriousness, it sounds like the other shoe is waiting to drop for her behavior to cost your band a good gig.

 

[budda]

Sounds like you already know you're looking for the replacement.

 

[Riffer]

whats the point of the meeting?!? if you all agree and what you are saying is even just 20% true replace her like 3 weeks ago.

Some of the other members thought we should give her the benefit of the doubt and maybe at the meeting she will say something like "You know what, you guys are right and I needed to hear all of this and I will change the way I act." The think we owe her that to at least tell her our problems and not just fire her out of the blue.

Me on the other hand think it's just prolonging the inevitable and we should can her and find a replacment.

 

[ArtDecade]

She will either be late or not be at the meeting.

 

[sleewell]

in my experience people that need to be told they should fix their car instead of going out blowing money so they aren't always late to gigs will rarely see the light. its something that you a logical person would expect from them but not something that they will ever come to regardless of how nicely you lay it out for them.

you have already said she doesn't take criticism well. def doesn't sound like having the talk will have any affect on her. 20 bucks says she comes straight out with excuses about how its not her fault, how it wasn't that big of a deal, how she still made it to every gig, etc...


your reputation is eroding every time she is late. people that are always late get confirmation when they are late but people keep accepting them bc nothing really bad happened so they keep doing it or get worse and worse.

its your call but if you want to keep getting better gigs you need to ditch this person.

 

[Scordare]

Sounds like a lazy karaoke star who wanted to be in a band but doesn’t have the drive to work hard. How good is she really? And how much does she contribute to your following? How easy will she be to replace? Her car problems seem to have become a convenient excuse.. Is there someone else in the band who can pick her up? Maybe a good talk will help her straighten out..maybe not. Probably better start looking for a backup plan.

 

[Riffer]

in my experience people that need to be told they should fix their car instead of going out blowing money so they aren't always late to gigs will rarely see the light. its something that you a logical person would expect from them but not something that they will ever come to regardless of how nicely you lay it out for them.

you have already said she doesn't take criticism well. def doesn't sound like having the talk will have any affect on her. 20 bucks says she comes straight out with excuses about how its not her fault, how it wasn't that big of a deal, how she still made it to every gig, etc...


your reputation is eroding every time she is late. people that are always late get confirmation when they are late but people keep accepting them bc nothing really bad happened so they keep doing it or get worse and worse.

its your call but if you want to keep getting better gigs you need to ditch this person.

Everything you've said is almost verbatim what I have said will happen at the meeting.

Sounds like a lazy karaoke star who wanted to be in a band but doesn’t have the drive to work hard. How good is she really? And how much does she contribute to your following? How easy will she be to replace? Her car problems seem to have become a convenient excuse.. Is there someone else in the band who can pick her up? Maybe a good talk will help her straighten out..maybe not. Probably better start looking for a backup plan.

When she's on it, she is good. Not like holy shit Mariah Carey early 90's good, but she's no slouch. She can sing. The following we have is somewhat related to her. She's been in the cover scene for about 9 years in this area and when we play local a lot of her friends come out. But her friends also know how she is with her car problems. We've heard through the grapevine that her friends have told her "sorry but, no" when she's asked to use their car. We would take an initial hit since she's the "Face" of the band but I think that would quickly be remedied by us hiring a new quality singer. There might be some backlash at certain venues because she's friendly with them and it may look like we booted out our "Star" but I think if anybody knew the behind the scenes stuff they would agree that as a business it's a good move to get rid of her.

As far as someone else in the band giving her rides, that's an issue as well. Half the band does not live close enough to her to give her a ride a lot of the time. The other members live within 15 minutes of her but here's the thing. Everyone in the band has been vaccinated for COVID except her. One member of our band has Lymes disease, another member has a new born baby, and my girlfriend is immunocompromised (Type 1 Diabetes). We do not feel comfortable being in a car with her on long rides to gigs. We wear masks at rehearsal while she does not. We wear masks while not onstage at gigs, she does not. She has been going out the same amount or even more since last summer when cases were outta control and places were doing capacity limits. She has not given a reason for why she won't get vaccinated. It has also costed us a potential gig. Our agency emailed us and said there is a private event wanting a band. Budget was something like $3,500 but the band has to be vaccinated. We told her and she said "I guess we aren't playing it". So not only is she costing us money we could be making but she's turning down money for herself which would help her in her financial situation and car situation.

 

[ArtDecade]

How many ways can we rephrase "fire her"? LOL.

 

[Riffer]

How many ways can we rephrase "fire her"? LOL.

Lol, I know I know. If it was only up to me then yes I would get rid of her. I can't talk to anyone else outside of the band about it because in the cover band scene everyone knows everyone and the word would get out and possibly back to her. So I come here to get some takes on the issue from some other musicians who don't have any connection to it.

 

[TedEH]

I mean, if she's a vocalist... not carrying any gear... transportation isn't that complicated to sort out. I've been in bands with people who don't own cars or can't drive, and simple compromises were found to make it work. It's not a "car problem" it's a "her problem".

IMO there's no use worrying about any kind of blowback from "the scene" for firing someone known if keeping her around is going to tank your reputation anyway. Doesn't matter if she's a good singer. There are lots of good singers out there. Some of them know how to arrange transportation. Get you one of those.

 

[metallicity]

A couple of ideas/suggestions:

- Is there any chance it's a perception issue? meaning is it really that bad? I imagine it actually is that bad but I'm just saying this so you can make an objective argument when the time comes.
You're probably going to get at least one band member that's in denial about how bad the situation is unless you have some hard (documented) facts.
One thing I suggest, it will be some work but will be worth it, is making a list for yourself and the other band members of the past gigs going back as far as you can stand and write down how many times she was late vs not being late. Was she late 100%? 75%? 50%? 25%? in the past x number of gigs. Is she actually late as often as you describe?, less that you describe?, or late even more often than you describe? It's easy for any member of the band to claim it's more or less than reality unless you have documented facts regarding it. If you document it there will be no perception issue from anyone in the band including her. I don't mean this to sound like I'm only considering the lateness, I'm just using that as an example, the documentation could, or probably should, be a list of professional vs unprofessional things lateness included. Makes me wonder, has she done things that have been professional at all?

- See if the band is willing to schedule another rehearsal with a different singer and just say it's so the band can practice with a "backup" singer when the current singer can't make it due to transportation issues. "Just for practice reasons". Once you get some practice in with the "backup" or "practice" singer the band is in a better position to move on without the current problematic singer.

Also on board with everyone else here saying to replace her if my post wasn't clear on that.

 

[CovertSovietBear]

You've answered your questions and you've also tried to resolve the problems professionally; she needs to go and you need a replacement singer in the interim.

Why is there hesitancy regarding confrontation? (besides the glaring car issues).
Have y'all been working together for a while now and are people uncomfortable escalating the lack of resolve from her side?

The problem doesn't sound like she's not being confronted, it's that the proposed solutions to these issues have not been escalated.

 

[CovertSovietBear]

A couple of ideas/suggestions:

- See if the band is willing to schedule another rehearsal with a different singer and just say it's so the band can practice with a "backup" singer when the current singer can't make it due to transportation issues. "Just for practice reasons". Once you get some practice in with the "backup" or "practice" singer the band is in a better position to move on without the current problematic singer.

Also on board with everyone else here saying to replace her if my post wasn't clear on that.

Oh that's an interesting suggestion. This would place pressure on her to either step up/down but leave the band in an advantageous position.
Documenting her lateness would also supplement the argument OP is trying to make; the data don't lie.

 

[Adieu]

Everything you've said is almost verbatim what I have said will happen at the meeting.



When she's on it, she is good. Not like holy shit Mariah Carey early 90's good, but she's no slouch. She can sing. The following we have is somewhat related to her. She's been in the cover scene for about 9 years in this area and when we play local a lot of her friends come out. But her friends also know how she is with her car problems. We've heard through the grapevine that her friends have told her "sorry but, no" when she's asked to use their car. We would take an initial hit since she's the "Face" of the band but I think that would quickly be remedied by us hiring a new quality singer. There might be some backlash at certain venues because she's friendly with them and it may look like we booted out our "Star" but I think if anybody knew the behind the scenes stuff they would agree that as a business it's a good move to get rid of her.

As far as someone else in the band giving her rides, that's an issue as well. Half the band does not live close enough to her to give her a ride a lot of the time. The other members live within 15 minutes of her but here's the thing. Everyone in the band has been vaccinated for COVID except her. One member of our band has Lymes disease, another member has a new born baby, and my girlfriend is immunocompromised (Type 1 Diabetes). We do not feel comfortable being in a car with her on long rides to gigs. We wear masks at rehearsal while she does not. We wear masks while not onstage at gigs, she does not. She has been going out the same amount or even more since last summer when cases were outta control and places were doing capacity limits. She has not given a reason for why she won't get vaccinated. It has also costed us a potential gig. Our agency emailed us and said there is a private event wanting a band. Budget was something like $3,500 but the band has to be vaccinated. We told her and she said "I guess we aren't playing it". So not only is she costing us money we could be making but she's turning down money for herself which would help her in her financial situation and car situation.

$3500 gig for a cover band and she's like NAH???

This sounds like a dead end situation

 

[CanserDYI]

gonna agree with @TedEH shes a singer, she's not lugging cabs and amps and guitars anywhere. No excuse even car issues. Sounds like you guys also live in a metropolitan area, there are plenty of ways to get around without a car, even in the boonies. This is a joke to her if she can't make rehearsal. I wouldnt even kick her out, just ghost her at this point, not even joking, after all that disrespect.

 

[Adieu]

Seriously, a vocalist can buy a damn moped

And even non-vocalists can swallow their pride and buy a damn Crown Victoria for like a grand if their cool cars aren't reliable