Professional musicians that use mid-range/budget-range/low-end gear?

[yellowv]

It strikes me as strange when i see some pretty big acts using LTD's. Such as Nergal from Behemoth. He plays an LTD Ninja yet also has an awesome 7 string ESP. Also ben Weinman from DEP plays LTD. An MH1000 I believe. Also Lacuna Coil use LTD Carpenters. You'd think endorsees like them would be playing ESP's.

 

[TomAwesome]

I'd imagine they're probably using the LTD Carpenters because they want mahogany instead of alder. LTD seems to be an exception in that the higher end LTD models seem to be on par with a lot of the ESP models. I see pros using LTD guitars about as often as I see ESP.

 

[WarriorOfMetal]

Jari Maenpaa used a Jackson DK3 with EMGs and a Tokai tele on the first wintersun album, and Trey Azagthoth is a big fan of budget axes.

Jari Mäenpää's tele sounds badass, too...very cool and different tone for that kinda stuff...it's all over the Ensiferum album "Iron" as well

 

[WarriorOfMetal]

I see pros using LTD guitars about as often as I see ESP.

this is probably also related to the way their endorsement deals work. i remember someone who was in a band with an ESP deal explained to me that they were able to get something like 1 ESP per year for free or a hefty discount, or 3 free LTDs/year.

 

[Harry]

It strikes me as strange when i see some pretty big acts using LTD's. Such as Nergal from Behemoth. He plays an LTD Ninja yet also has an awesome 7 string ESP. Also ben Weinman from DEP plays LTD. An MH1000 I believe. Also Lacuna Coil use LTD Carpenters. You'd think endorsees like them would be playing ESP's.

It probably has some amount to do with cost issues.
If you manage to damage an LTD on tour, it's gonna cost less to replace than an ESP, so it may not be as strange as you think.
I mean, think about it.. if you could have the guitar you want in an equivalent LTD model to take on tour, you would probably rather use that and be less concerned about dinging it than you would with a guitar that costs a grand or so more. Well maybe not everyone anyway, but if given the option, I would rather take a "workhorse" kinda guitar on the road and keep the fancy stuff that sounds the best for the studio.

 

[TomAwesome]

this is probably also related to the way their endorsement deals work. i remember someone who was in a band with an ESP deal explained to me that they were able to get something like 1 ESP per year for free or a hefty discount, or 3 free LTDs/year.

Interesting. That does makes sense, though.

 

[ire_works]

Also ben Weinman from DEP plays LTD. An MH1000 I believe.

Have you seen Dillinger's live show? he goes through like 15 guitars a tour with his stage antics. Esp custom shop guitars just wouldn't make sense.

other than that , in any professional studio that even thinks of recording a metal guitar tone will have an old 5150. I guarentee it.

 

[Scali]

The live environment is way more forgiving also, in the studio that's where no one is using Marshall MG series or PODs for the most part. Or RG7321s.

Actually I know quite a few people who use a Pod in their studio... Some even use the kidney models.
It's also convenient if you are invited as a guest-musician to play on a track. You just take your Pod with you, and plug it into their mixing desk, and you have your favourite tones right there.

See this video of Steve Lukather laying down some guitar tracks for example:


You can see a Pod on the table on the right.

 

[zimbloth]

Actually I know quite a few people who use a Pod in their studio... Some even use the kidney models.
It's also convenient if you are invited as a guest-musician to play on a track. You just take your Pod with you, and plug it into their mixing desk, and you have your favourite tones right there.

See this video of Steve Lukather laying down some guitar tracks for example:


You can see a Pod on the table on the right.

First of all I said "for the most part". Secondly, no. For 99% of pro/signed bands, they do not use the POD as their primary guitar tone on the final tracking for their commercial releases.

 

[Scali]

First of all I said "for the most part". Secondly, no. For 99% of pro/signed bands, they do not use the POD as their primary guitar tone on the final tracking for their commercial releases.

Well I say it's nowhere near 99%, perhaps more around 75-80% or so. I'm talking about modeling in general then, not specifically a Pod.
People could also be using other brands of modelers, or software-based modeling like Guitar Rig or such.
Perhaps even more if you also count in other ways of direct-recording. I know Danny Danzi uses a Digitech 2101 directly to the board for most of his stuff.

Just trying to say that especially for the heavier styles of music, direct recording and/or modeling are getting quite popular.
The days of the big studio are pretty much gone anyway, many artists build their own home studio and use that for the most part, because computers make it very affordable these days.
And especially with heavy distortion, modeling makes it all more manageable, less noise, feedback etc. And easier to get the full punch of the sound recorded.

 

[Ze Kink]

It strikes me as strange when i see some pretty big acts using LTD's. Such as Nergal from Behemoth. He plays an LTD Ninja yet also has an awesome 7 string ESP. Also ben Weinman from DEP plays LTD. An MH1000 I believe. Also Lacuna Coil use LTD Carpenters. You'd think endorsees like them would be playing ESP's.

Nergal's got a new custom shop ESP now, which is based on the Ninja. I think he used the LTD's because the ESP wasn't finished yet. I think the other guitarist only plays LTD's though, as does the bass player. And in my ESP catalog, there's pictures of both Lacuna Coil guitarists, and the other guy is playing an ESP Carpenter.

Now that I think about it, both times I've seen NIN live, Trent played mostly Epiphone LP studios. They were slightly modded though, they only had one volume knob and some didn't have a neck pickup. He only used a Fender strat for one song, other than that I think it was just Epiphones. Aaron North also played Squiers for one song on both gigs, but he broke them both times

 

[TomAwesome]

Well I say it's nowhere near 99%, perhaps more around 75-80% or so. I'm talking about modeling in general then, not specifically a Pod.
People could also be using other brands of modelers, or software-based modeling like Guitar Rig or such.
Perhaps even more if you also count in other ways of direct-recording. I know Danny Danzi uses a Digitech 2101 directly to the board for most of his stuff.

Just trying to say that especially for the heavier styles of music, direct recording and/or modeling are getting quite popular.
The days of the big studio are pretty much gone anyway, many artists build their own home studio and use that for the most part, because computers make it very affordable these days.
And especially with heavy distortion, modeling makes it all more manageable, less noise, feedback etc. And easier to get the full punch of the sound recorded.

I don't have any actual figures to throw at you, but I'd imagine it's still significantly more than 80% of commercial albums that are recorded with real amps, cabs, and microphones. You're absolutely right that the direct-recorded modeling-based home studio is becoming ever more popular and ever more common, but more affordable doesn't mean better. I'm pretty sure almost all commercial albums are still recorded with real gear. Most people who use modelers (myself included) do so as a matter of convenience, versatility, and cost. There are some bands like Mnemic, Meshuggah, and Evanescence who record with amp models, but they seem to still be a very small minority. I record with a POD, but if I had a nice sound room full of good amps and recording equipment to work with, I'd probably never touch the POD aside from maybe for making scratch tracks. Big studios aren't going anywhere any time too soon.

 

[Scali]

I don't have any actual figures to throw at you, but I'd imagine it's still significantly more than 80% of commercial albums that are recorded with real amps, cabs, and microphones.

Let's just agree to disagree.
As said before, it's mostly the hobbyists that are hung up on boutique gear, tube amps, mic'ed up recording etc, like they did in the 'golden years' of rock/metal. You'd be surprised how few professionals are 'purists' that way.

 

[zimbloth]

As said before, it's mostly the hobbyists that are hung up on boutique gear, tube amps, mic'ed up recording etc, like they did in the 'golden years' of rock/metal. You'd be surprised how few professionals are 'purists' that way.

You'd be surprised at how out of touch you are with professional engineers and guitarists. Despite what you want to believe, the fact remains the vast vast majority of pros use pro gear (tube amps, actual micing, etc) in the studio, and live as well. They don't do this because of nostalgia, they do it because that's where the best tones are still found.

It's okay to admit you're wrong dude Arguing for the sake of arguing is a dead end and serves no purpose.

 

[TomAwesome]

Let's just agree to disagree.
As said before, it's mostly the hobbyists that are hung up on boutique gear, tube amps, mic'ed up recording etc, like they did in the 'golden years' of rock/metal. You'd be surprised how few professionals are 'purists' that way.

I'm not trying to derail the thread further, but I don't think that's true at all. Modelers are more popular now than they have ever been, especially in the non-professional sector. Again, though, this is more because of convenience and cost-effectiveness. The people who choose real amps over modelers generally do so because it actually sounds better. I'm all about modeling, and if I had used a modeler that sounded just as good as good as its real life counterpart, I'd be up at the front of the line declaring loudly and happily that it was just as good. At least thus far, though, the technology just isn't there. I'm hoping the Axe-FX will prove to be the missing link that will bridge the gap between modeling flexibility and tube tone if I can ever get my hands on one, but even the clips I've heard from the flagship of all modelers have (at least in the high-gain end of things) not quite gotten to the point of being just as good.

Speaking of the good ol' days, though, didn't some old bands get great tone out of crappy gear? Didn't Jimmy Page use some random cheap POS guitar with fantastic results on one of the Led Zeppelin albums? I also think somebody else (SRV maybe? I forget.) got some pretty sweet album tones out of some cheap little beginner amp or something like that.

 

[Mattayus]

didn't Loomis use an XT for rhythm on one of the Nevermore albums?

 

[Scali]

You'd be surprised at how out of touch you are with professional engineers and guitarists. Despite what you want to believe, the fact remains the vast vast majority of pros use pro gear (tube amps, actual micing, etc) in the studio, and live as well. They don't do this because of nostalgia, they do it because that's where the best tones are still found.

It's okay to admit you're wrong dude Arguing for the sake of arguing is a dead end and serves no purpose.

I don't 'believe' anything. I've done professional recording work myself, and as such I know quite a few professional musicians and engineers. I don't know how I could be MORE in touch than I am now.
I resent your insulting tone... Aside from that, 75-80% is still 'the vast majority' so I don't see why you need to argue in the first place.

I'm not trying to derail the thread further, but I don't think that's true at all. Modelers are more popular now than they have ever been, especially in the non-professional sector. Again, though, this is more because of convenience and cost-effectiveness. The people who choose real amps over modelers generally do so because it actually sounds better. I'm all about modeling, and if I had used a modeler that sounded just as good as good as its real life counterpart, I'd be up at the front of the line declaring loudly and happily that it was just as good. At least thus far, though, the technology just isn't there. I'm hoping the Axe-FX will prove to be the missing link that will bridge the gap between modeling flexibility and tube tone if I can ever get my hands on one, but even the clips I've heard from the flagship of all modelers have (at least in the high-gain end of things) not quite gotten to the point of being just as good.

Well I personally moved from real amp to modeling because of convenience... Some of my best recordings are with a real amp, but ironically some of the worst are with the exact same amp.
I've also used SS setups at times. People often can't even tell which is which. So I figured: if they don't care, why should I?
You should listen to the tracks on my soundclick page and try to guess which is SS, which is modeling, and which is mic'ed up. I wonder how many you'd get right.

 

[Mattayus]

Yeah, ya know, we have this argument about 50 times a day in the recording section

Obviously you can do things with micing that you can't with modeling, but i dare say you can get a professional recording done with a modeler and nobody would be any the wiser.

Put it this way, to put a bit of a switcheroo on the matter - I've heard bands' records where I've been absolutely 100% convinced it's a pod, only to find out it was a mic'd amp.

 

[noodleplugerine]

Have you seen Dillinger's live show? he goes through like 15 guitars a tour with his stage antics. Esp custom shop guitars just wouldn't make sense.

other than that , in any professional studio that even thinks of recording a metal guitar tone will have an old 5150. I guarentee it.

I allways see him with a blue MH400, yet, here he is with a sunburst Horizon NT-II.

FUEL.TV Music

Also notice the orange cabs in the background. Yum.

 

[dougsteele]

Pod x3 live through power amp of 1987 Ameg ss140c. They don't even make 'em anymore. And you know what? My metal tone is pretty fucking brutal.