PRS SE 7 -What kind of interest?

[MJS]

Typically, people can tell the difference between a 24.75" and 25.5" scale guitars, only because the two guitars differ in other ways, such as neck thickness, upper fret access, bridge type, fretboard radius, etc. For instance, a Les Paul and a Telecaster. Though, if you take two of the EXACT same guitar, except have one be 24.75" and 25.5" and did a blind study, I bet most wouldn't be able to tell definitively.

The ones I compare are a similar design (basic RG style). When I play them back to back, I notice the stretches a little more towards the nut of the 25.5" and the tighter squeeze past the 12th fret of the 24.75".

It's not enough to need an adjustment period and I'm fine with both--but I also don't have tiny or huge hands, as some of the people that really care about the difference do.

Also, to put it in perspective when I say I like the longer one better, it's definitely not based on the other things about the guitar... because I actually like the 24.75" one way better in most other aspects.

Just do the math. (This is all using a .009 gauge set.)

A .009 high E string on a 24.75" scale has a tension of 12.33lbs.
A .009 high E string on a 25" scale has a tension of 12.58lbs.
A .009 high E string on a 25.5" scale has a tension of 13.09lbs.

To put that in perspective just a little bit, if you were to place a .010 string on the high E on a 25.5" scale, the tension would increase by 3.15 lbs (.010 gauge tuned to E = 16.24lbs).

That means the difference in tension is over six times greater when going up one string size compared with adding .5" to the scale.

I use the same brand strings on both, but I put 9's on the 25.5" and 9.5's on the 24.75" and they pretty much feel the same to me.

I do feel a little less tension with 9's on the short scale, but if I go up to 10's on the short one, it feels a lot more different to me than 9's on the long one. I don't know if it's the tension or just the noticeable feel of the added thickness. To me, 9.5's are perfect on the short scale, though.

I never played a 25" scale, but I'm guessing if I had one, I'd probably put the 9.5's on that as well.

No idea what I'd do if I tried one in the 27" - 30" range... I'd probably have to use thread or fishing line.

Not to mention that .75" (not .25) difference is even more then the 25.5" verses 25" being most debated.

The .25" is comparing the 25" and 24.75" scales, pointing out that the two are so close that if someone can tell 25.5" & 24.75" apart, the .25" difference probably wouldn't change that. Basically saying that the difference between 25.5" & 25" is twice the difference of a 25" vs. 24.75" comparison.

Another thing about comparing the two, besides stuff like other differences between the two guitars, is that the most important difference would be between the people playing them. Big hands vs. small hands, etc...

I'd also imagine if you combine small hands & a medical condition, that .25/.5/.75" difference could feel like a mile.

Just like how some people can play 13's all day, while others need to go get stitches after playing 10's for a few minutes.

Like I said though, the difference isn't really enough to matter to me and nothing in that range would be a deal breaker for me if I like a guitar. I'm just saying I don't really think people that feel it enough to have a preference are BS'ing.

And I mentioned Carvin because I wondered if they did any research on it. They obviously prefer 25" but added that extra .5" for the sevens. Yet they don't seem to be rushing out to offer something to keep the "sevens have to be at least 27 inches" crowd happy.

Or maybe it has nothing to do with that. I'm just assuming they'd keep things the same if possible, just like I wouldn't see a problem with PRS sticking to their standard 25" if they're happy with how it works out.

 

[Riffer]

Jesus guys, c'mon. Lets get back on topic here!

 

[13point9]

Jesus guys, c'mon. Lets get back on topic here!

hahaha too true, what personally are your ideas for specs Riffer?

 

[TomParenteau]

No one does a PRS-ish 7. No one.

Not even Warmoth?

 

[Riffer]

hahaha too true, what personally are your ideas for specs Riffer?

I already own a S7320, RG7420, and COW 7. So I would want something that's different from those guitars.

Singlecut
mahogany body
thick maple top with flame or quilted veneer overlay
maple binding on body
maple neck with wide thin carve
wraparound or PRS trem (doesnt really matter which one)
25 inch scale length
ebony board with birds
22 or 24 (doesnt matter to me)
Medium jumbo frets or larger
chrome nickel hardware
passive humbuckers
one volume/one tone (maybe put coil tap pots in there too)
3 way toggle switch
any transparent color except black or red (getting tired of those) maybe a burst or vintage natural would look sweet!

 

[13point9]

Singlecut
mahogany body
thick maple top with flame or quilted veneer overlay
maple binding on body
maple neck with wide thin carve
wraparound or PRS trem (doesnt really matter which one)
25 inch scale length
ebony board with birds
22 or 24 (doesnt matter to me)
Medium jumbo frets or larger
chrome nickel hardware
passive humbuckers
one volume/one tone (maybe put coil tap pots in there too)
3 way toggle switch
any transparent color except black or red (getting tired of those) maybe a burst or vintage natural would look sweet!

This is pretty much exactly what I would go for hahaha dont mind if its a single or custom shape though

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I already own a S7320, RG7420, and COW 7. So I would want something that's different from those guitars.

Singlecut
mahogany body
thick maple top with flame or quilted veneer overlay
maple binding on body
maple neck with wide thin carve
wraparound or PRS trem (doesnt really matter which one)
25 inch scale length
ebony board with birds
22 or 24 (doesnt matter to me)
Medium jumbo frets or larger
chrome nickel hardware
passive humbuckers
one volume/one tone (maybe put coil tap pots in there too)
3 way toggle switch
any transparent color except black or red (getting tired of those) maybe a burst or vintage natural would look sweet!

This.

 

[asmegin_slayer]

A PRS SE 7 string will be great, I'll be the first one to be buying one. The SE's already have a good track record with great wood and neck radius. Hardware seems to be getting better now that the Torrero is out.

Riffer, can you shed us some more light?

 

[Riffer]

A PRS SE 7 string will be great, I'll be the first one to be buying one. The SE's already have a good track record with great wood and neck radius. Hardware seems to be getting better now that the Torrero is out.

Riffer, can you shed us some more light?

The only thing I can say is that I'll put a good word in for a PRS SE-7. That doesnt mean PRS will make one this year, or ever, but it's worth a shot. I sent my manager some mockups of some guitars just to get the ball rolling.

-Tom

 

[MaxOfMetal]

A lot of assumptions.

That's all well in good, but as someone with fairly large hands, and who has had surgery on their wrist, and having owned 24.75", 25", 25.5", 27", and 28"+ scale guitars, in addition to basses with 30", 32", 33.75", 34", and 35" scales I have made some observations directly. As well as done a bit of math, with the help of the UST Calculator and a couple of it's add-ons. I'm only putting the info out there.

I'm not saying those who feel a difference in scale are full of shit, I'm saying that the idea that a small 2% change in scale is going to make an earth shattering difference is fairly silly. As well as the fact that moving up in string size by as little as .001th of an inch will more then compensate.

This has nothing to do with stretches between frets, in which the difference is so negligible, that it has no weight. To give you an idea of the difference take a 25.5" scale guitar, and play something exactly one fret higher then usual. That is greater then the difference of playing between a 25" and 25.5" scale.

 

[Rick]

I sent my manager some mockups of some guitars just to get the ball rolling.

PICSPLZKTHXBAI.

 

[asmegin_slayer]

The only thing I can say is that I'll put a good word in for a PRS SE-7. That doesnt mean PRS will make one this year, or ever, but it's worth a shot. I sent my manager some mockups of some guitars just to get the ball rolling.

-Tom

Would it help if we raided there exchange servers and flood them emails for a 7 string SE?

 

[Riffer]

Would it help if we raided there exchange servers and flood them emails for a 7 string SE?

Probably not. I wouldn't advise it. But I'll keep pushing for a SE-7. I dont want to be annoying with it. I'll just keep tabs on it and remind him every now and then with more info on specs and what you guys are saying.

 

[vampiregenocide]

Probably not. I wouldn't advise it. But I'll keep pushing for a SE-7. I dont want to be annoying with it. I'll just keep tabs on it and remind him every now and then with more info on specs and what you guys are saying.

I think everyone here really appreciates anything you do to back this idea, I know whatever PRS decide to do with the production model will be great, and if and when it comes out you have my thanks.

 

[TemjinStrife]

Not even Warmoth?

Bolt-on, not set-neck.

 

[Justin Bailey]

I already own a S7320, RG7420, and COW 7. So I would want something that's different from those guitars.

Singlecut
mahogany body
thick maple top with flame or quilted veneer overlay
maple binding on body
maple neck with wide thin carve
wraparound or PRS trem (doesnt really matter which one)
25 inch scale length
ebony board with birds
22 or 24 (doesnt matter to me)
Medium jumbo frets or larger
chrome nickel hardware
passive humbuckers
one volume/one tone (maybe put coil tap pots in there too)
3 way toggle switch
any transparent color except black or red (getting tired of those) maybe a burst or vintage natural would look sweet!

absolutely, I'd be cool with a hardtail ala the mushok sig and rosewood. Here are some more mockups!

 

[MJS]

That's all well in good, but as someone with fairly large hands, and who has had surgery on their wrist, and having owned 24.75", 25", 25.5", 27", and 28"+ scale guitars, in addition to basses with 30", 32", 33.75", 34", and 35" scales I have made some observations directly. As well as done a bit of math, with the help of the UST Calculator and a couple of it's add-ons. I'm only putting the info out there.

So, you felt the need to replace the text of my post of MY experience with MY guitars with "A lot of assumptions," just to turn around and pass off YOUR opinion based on YOUR hand size and YOUR physical condition as if it's some sort of correction?

I also don't need to own 27" - 30" guitars to have an opinion on 24.75" - 25.5" scales. Didn't think I needed to mention I've played basses either, considering it's not a bass thread.

I guess I never needed to use math or calculators to pick up two guitars and say, "these feel different."

This has nothing to do with stretches between frets, in which the difference is so negligible, that it has no weight. To give you an idea of the difference take a 25.5" scale guitar, and play something exactly one fret higher then usual. That is greater then the difference of playing between a 25" and 25.5" scale.

That's your opinion, based on your hand size. Humans come in different shapes & sizes.

You do know that you don't take the scale length and divide by the number of frets to come up with how big/small the difference is, right?

I've got 24.75" & 25.5" scale guitars right here and just measured a 3/16" difference just between the nut and the 5th fret, so a full 25% of that difference comes into play within the first 5 frets, which are already the farthest apart to begin with.

To someone with small hands, that can be the difference between a barely comfortable stretch or muffling a note unless they shift their hand... for what many people can play without stretching at all.

You can tell some people with smaller hands are awkward at that end of the neck just by watching them bar an F chord at the first fret.

I also just checked the higher frets and if I finger 4 frets in row, and move up the neck on the high E, here's what happens...

24.75" Scale: All 4 fingers touch when I get to the 14th fret.

25.5" Scale: All 4 fingers touch when I get to the 16th fret.

Again, that's no big deal to me--but someone with fatter fingers might call that a real-world difference, whereas someone with skinny fingers might not notice or care.

I'm not saying those who feel a difference in scale are full of shit, I'm saying that the idea that a small 2% change in scale is going to make an earth shattering difference is fairly silly. As well as the fact that moving up in string size by as little as .001th of an inch will more then compensate.

That's your opinion, again, and you have large hands. How many people with small hands do you think are going value your opinion over what they feel with their own hands?

I think it was also pretty clear I'm not talking about the difference in string tension since I already said I keep it pretty even by using 9's & 9.5's to make both scales feel good to me. It certainly has no effect on my preference.

Not to mention, you're arguing for the sake of arguing... with someone that already said it doesn't matter (but that's just to me - not everyone else), or I wouldn't have both scales in the first place.

The difference here is that I'm speaking for myself and giving others the benefit of the doubt that their opinion based on their hands could be different, whereas you don't seem to be getting that.

Your sig says: "Don't recommend anything unless you have first hand experience with it."

How much experience do you have with small and medium sized hands, since you're saying the distance between frets isn't an issue, as if it applies to everyone?

Besides all of that... personal preference is based on opinions, that vary from person to person, without a need for any facts, so I can't figure out why you chose to argue about something that obvious in the first place.

I can't even figure out how it turned into a scale length thread in the first place. If you were to delete all of the posts in this thread of people trying to pass off their personal preference for scale length as what should be the industry standard, we'd still be on page one.

 

[Emperoff]

I already own a S7320, RG7420, and COW 7. So I would want something that's different from those guitars.

Singlecut
mahogany body
thick maple top with flame or quilted veneer overlay
maple binding on body
maple neck with wide thin carve
wraparound or PRS trem (doesnt really matter which one)
25 inch scale length
ebony board with birds
22 or 24 (doesnt matter to me)
Medium jumbo frets or larger
chrome nickel hardware
passive humbuckers
one volume/one tone (maybe put coil tap pots in there too)
3 way toggle switch
any transparent color except black or red (getting tired of those) maybe a burst or vintage natural would look sweet!

That can't be more perfect, please close the thread

Riffer, If someone of the big guys at PRS assume that because it's a 7 string it must be black, tell them they're totally wrong! (Although a quilted-veneer black singlecut would kick major ass ).


Oh and this looks awesome:

 

[MSalonen]

That looks great!

Though I'd personally also love the option for their more Strat-like bodyshape as well.

 

[guitarplayerone]

That's all well in good, but as someone with fairly large hands, and who has had surgery on their wrist, and having owned 24.75", 25", 25.5", 27", and 28"+ scale guitars, in addition to basses with 30", 32", 33.75", 34", and 35" scales I have made some observations directly. As well as done a bit of math, with the help of the UST Calculator and a couple of it's add-ons. I'm only putting the info out there.

I'm not saying those who feel a difference in scale are full of shit, I'm saying that the idea that a small 2% change in scale is going to make an earth shattering difference is fairly silly. As well as the fact that moving up in string size by as little as .001th of an inch will more then compensate.

This has nothing to do with stretches between frets, in which the difference is so negligible, that it has no weight. To give you an idea of the difference take a 25.5" scale guitar, and play something exactly one fret higher then usual. That is greater then the difference of playing between a 25" and 25.5" scale.

:: its not even a factor of feel, imo 25.5" is already somewhat 'boomy' for a low B, and thicker strings will not take away said boominess. . anyway something for the guys at PRS to consider, maybe make the pickups a little brighter or something if they go for 25" scale.

with that said i personally love long scale lengths (ie feel that 28.625" is minimum for an 8) and have pretty short fingers. i can very easily pull of the fast runs in Acid Rain by LTE, for example, on a 25" scale guitar, or a 24.75" LP, but can't do some of them anywhere near as easily on my 25.5" ibanez

so i mean it depends on what the guitar will be used for. i don't remember if BTBAM tunes to lowered tunings (not a fan of core but a fan of everything not core in that band), but they sounded totally fine at 25" live). same thing applies to In Flames in Drop B with their 24.75" LPs. granted are these guys playing djent? (obviously no). are these guys using super-heavy picks or picking very hard which would cause intonation issues at such scale lengths (absolutely not). so certainly you won't get a 'djenty' tone, or for that matter, be able to play fear factory type riffing on a short scale 7. But in that case, there are plenty of options already out there. at the end of the day i personally don't care what scale length the guitar will end up being, there are inherent compromises in all of them. furthermore at least in my opinion, the 'twang' associated with longer scale lengths is sort of the polar opposite of what PRS is to me, though i'd love the idea of a long scale length. there are plenty of other baritone options if they don't make their guitars baritones