PSA - Reverb charging sales tax twice on international sales

[potatohead33]

My apologies if this is the wrong forum…

I ordered a guitar out of The Netherlands and was charged provincial sales tax (Canada) by Reverb on the original sale. I assumed when the guitar crossed the border into the country the importer would see I paid it, and not charge it again. Wrong. Reverb will not refund me the tax I paid to them either, I spent the last couple days trying to get it back. I seriously just don’t think they understand properly what happened.

So yeah, I guess this is a new thing. Their checkout system is simply set up incorrectly for sales coming from outside your home country. If you live in a state or province that requires online retailers to bill sales tax, that works fine if the sale is inside the country, but it’s clearly not correct for products that need to be imported. Very annoying. Their cross border sales are going to crater if they don’t change this.

 

[Ross82]

Are you sure its not import duty that was also applied? If it is indeed a double charge for HST you should be able to provide proof to the Importer/Shipping company to show you paid tax. It sounds like its not Reverb that charged twice, but you got charged by Reverb at time of sale (which is correct now) and then the importer also either applied tax or it is an import duty. If you can provide proof of tax payment to whoever made the second HST charge (assuming that's what it is) then they will have to refund.

Were you charged the exact same amount both times?

 

[potatohead33]

Positive.

I was charged 7% (BC PST) by Reverb. The PST charged is slightly different based on the exchange rates from buying the guitar in USD but then it being shipped from Europe and the value declared in Euro. It only varies by a few dollars.

I do have an email in to FedEx but I have not heard back yet.

 

[potatohead33]

Sorry I should have included this as well

 

[BurningRome]

You're not going to get the support you need from Reverb. They use to, before being bought out, actually had people you could speak to by phone if needed. All the customer support assistance I've received has been through reverb messaging. I assume it maybe outsourced.

I actually asked them a relative question and got no clear or clean answer which was, should Reverb be charging tax against the shipping cost too. Ex. Guitar $400 + Shipping $100 = $500 + 10% ($50) sales tax = $550. OR should they only be taxing the item without including the shipping cost. Pretty certain they can, not like they're breaking a low, but I wanted understanding and got nothing of help.

Good luck, I'd highly consder asking reverb sellers that have an item you want to sell that item to you through ebay.

Ebay sellers cost is all the same as it is on Reverb, I sell on both. So hopefully that could be your best work around in the future.

 

[Hollowway]

Yeah, since the buyout Reverb support is non-existent.

Honestly, is it not time for someone else to enter the market? It wouldn't be hard to come in and underbid Reverb at this point.

 

[Emperoff]

Good luck, I'd highly consder asking reverb sellers that have an item you want to sell that item to you through ebay.

Ebay sellers cost is all the same as it is on Reverb, I sell on both. So hopefully that could be your best work around in the future.

No way. Reverb fees are 7.5%. eBay fees are 12.5%. I actually tell the lowballers I get on eBay to visit my Reverb page if they want lower prices.

 

[narad]

Btw, having shipped to a country like this fairly recently, Reverb gives you some info with the address that explains the buyer already paid the tax via Reverb, and is given a special code to include with the postage. Maybe it didn't trigger in this instance or the seller dropped the ball, but I imagine you'd be able to relay that number to the courier just the same.

 

[BurningRome]

No way. Reverb fees are 7.5%. eBay fees are 12.5%. I actually tell the lowballers I get on eBay to visit my Reverb page if they want lower prices.

You know what, you maybe right. I'm going to look. A few years ago Ebay reduced their seller rates to match Reverb but I'll look into it. I don't want to say something incorrect.

 

[potatohead33]

Btw, having shipped to a country like this fairly recently, Reverb gives you some info with the address that explains the buyer already paid the tax via Reverb, and is given a special code to include with the postage. Maybe it didn't trigger in this instance or the seller dropped the ball, but I imagine you'd be able to relay that number to the courier just the same.

I don’t know. I did message the seller before he shipped it out but it’s possible he didn’t know about it. For $90 or whatever this isn’t a massive deal in this instance, but if someone is buying a 5k guitar or something this could be a huge problem. Also some provinces they combine provincial and federal taxes into one, and that’s as high as 15%, so in theory someone could be asked to pay 15%, twice, on an expensive guitar, which obviously is beyond stupid.

 

[Riverview]

Also some provinces they combine provincial and federal taxes into one, and that’s as high as 15%, so in theory someone could be asked to pay 15%, twice, on an expensive guitar, which obviously is beyond stupid.

Welcome to BC . Thank Trudeau for that!

 

[lost_horizon]

Same thing happened to me with Reverb twice BUT only with DHL as the courier. Twice in a row they charged me sales tax a second time plus a $100 inspection fee.

After the second time and complaining I haven't been charged on large shipments since. Will be interesting to see in my tax return if I get the extra sales tax back.

 

[Jonathan20022]

No way. Reverb fees are 7.5%. eBay fees are 12.5%. I actually tell the lowballers I get on eBay to visit my Reverb page if they want lower prices.

You know what, you maybe right. I'm going to look. A few years ago Ebay reduced their seller rates to match Reverb but I'll look into it. I don't want to say something incorrect.

Ebay (Not factoring payment processing):

Reverb:

They are extremely similar, 12% is outdated.

 

[Emperor Guillotine]

Yeah, since the buyout Reverb support is non-existent.

Honestly, is it not time for someone else to enter the market? It wouldn't be hard to come in and underbid Reverb at this point.

Reverb has dug their own grave. The company is simply running out the clock at this point given the immense amount of complaints that have been brought up against them from around the internet and across the globe.

I got into a very lengthy, very drawn-out situation starting mid last year where Reverb shut down my account and banned me for (allegedly) repeatedly using foul language in the private messaging system when I was dealing with some truly moronic, time-wasting tire-kickers. When I attempted to simply appeal and inquire for some more details about the ban, Reverb's immediate response was to block any device I owned so that I could not possibly contact them via email or the automated chat function. Any device that was tethered to my home WiFi or my IP address was blocked, and anything with a device ID that could somehow be linked as belonging to me was blocked. When I asked some personal friends to reach out to Reverb on my behalf, they too were met with the same treatment and were ignored then blocked from being able to correspond with the company.

It seemed very petty of Reverb to resort to such drastic measures so quickly given that I had my account on the platform for years dating all the way back to like 2014 or 2015. (So, let's assume six years at least.) No big deal though. I just created a new account with new info and resumed buying/selling gear.

Fast-forward to January of this year, Reverb busted my second account, immediately shut it down, and took it upon themselves to refund multiple buyers whom I had sold AND SHIPPED gear to throughout the course of January. These were orders that were already fulfilled and shipped out, with the necessary tracking information for each shipment provided, and Reverb unjustifiably decided to refund every order.

Luckily, I had the foresight to take note of the phone numbers of each of the buyers before I lost access to my account entirely. So, I was able to reach out and contact each buyer and attempt to explain the situation amidst being in a state of total panic. Some of the buyers understood the situation, acknowledged that they did in fact receive a refund, and they offered to send me the funds back privately (via PayPal) to keep things honest and ethical. However, as you can imagine, not all people in this world are good or moral like that. I flat-out did not receive a reply from some buyers who were refunded; and due to Reverb's absolutely vile antics, those buyers walked away with both the gear and the money.

I ended up being out thousands and thousands of dollars worth of gear.

My only solution was to compile as many screenshots of every possible exchange, email, chat message, proof of each sale, proof of the refunded payments, the lack of customer support showcasing the blatantly detached and uncaring nature of Reverb's employees, literally anything I could use as evidence; and I took it all to a law firm in order to secure legal counsel to pursue litigation against Reverb for essentially committing theft (or being accomplices to theft) against me for thousands and thousands of dollars.

My legal team went head-to-head against Reverb's legal team, and a settlement was reached out of court. However, in exchange for receiving my financial recompense that I was rightfully owed, I'm still permanently banned from using Reverb's platform.

What a bunch of sour losers. And what a shitty company.

So again, Reverb has dug their own grave.

 

[Emperoff]

Ebay (Not factoring payment processing):
View attachment 111970

Reverb:
View attachment 111971

They are extremely similar, 12% is outdated.

Yeah, right...

• Total fees
  • Sales fee
    -7,76 €
    Variable percent • Image & sound (people don't only sell guitars y'know)
    
    Fee for 0,00 € - 2.000,00 €
    81,65 € × 9.5% = -7,76 €
    International fee -2,69 €
    (Charged because buyer is in New Zealand, fuck yeah).
  • Total Amount: 81,65 EUR.
    
    81,65 € × 3.3% = -2,69 €

Sales flat fee over 10€ = -0,29 €


Total fees = -10,74 €
VAT(21.0%). (WTF do they charge you VAT when selling) = -2,26 €

Total fees (VAT included) = -13.00€


YEAH, THE FUCKING SAME

I sell on both places on a daily basis. Reverb is not even close. Even if guitars and bases specific category is a 2% less, it's still a heck of a lot more expensive when you factor the "hidden" fees they apply. Fuck that.

 

[Jonathan20022]

Yeah, right...

• Total fees
  • Sales fee
    -7,76 €
    Variable percent • Image & sound (people don't only sell guitars y'know)
    
    Fee for 0,00 € - 2.000,00 €
    81,65 € × 9.5% = -7,76 €
    International fee -2,69 €
    (Charged because buyer is in New Zealand, fuck yeah).
  • Total Amount: 81,65 EUR.
    
    81,65 € × 3.3% = -2,69 €

Sales flat fee over 10€ = -0,29 €


Total fees = -10,74 €
VAT(21.0%). (WTF do they charge you VAT when selling) = -2,26 €

Total fees (VAT included) = -13.00€


YEAH, THE FUCKING SAME

I sell on both places on a daily basis. Reverb is not even close. Even if guitars and bases specific category is a 2% less, it's still a heck of a lot more expensive when you factor the "hidden" fees they apply. Fuck that.

Reverb is a place to sell musical instruments and anything music related, you can't compare a completely separate category and dredge in international fees to make a point that your fees are higher.

 

[Emperoff]

Reverb is a place to sell musical instruments and anything music related, you can't compare a completely separate category and dredge in international fees to make a point that your fees are higher.

I'm selling audio tubes. Isn't that music related?

Reverb doesn't charge VAT fees to the seller (which is absurd), nor charges random "international fees" either.

Looks like you want to be right no matter what. I sell on eBay and Reverb day in day out, but you can continue arguing the whole day about it if you wish. Be my guest.

 

[Jonathan20022]

I'm selling audio tubes. Isn't that music related?

Reverb doesn't charge VAT fees to the seller (which is absurd), nor charges random "international fees" either.

Looks like you want to be right no matter what. I sell on eBay and Reverb day in day out, but you can continue arguing the whole day about it if you wish. Be my guest.

I'm not arguing, I posted screenshots of both platform's fee structures. Sure your fees in the image & sound category + EU fees bring the total higher, is the acknowledgement of that all you want? I sell on both sites as well, and I pay higher fees on my electronics/pc components?

You made a statement that eBay's fee were 12.5%, all I did was point out that it wasn't the case in the context of musical instruments (SSO), the OP (Question about fees on the purchase of a guitar) between both platforms, everything points to it being about musical instruments.

 

[Emperoff]

I'm not arguing, I posted screenshots of both platform's fee structures. Sure your fees in the image & sound category + EU fees bring the total higher, is the acknowledgement of that all you want? I sell on both sites as well, and I pay higher fees on my electronics/pc components?

You made a statement that eBay's fee were 12.5%, all I did was point out that it wasn't the case in the context of musical instruments (SSO), the OP (Question about fees on the purchase of a guitar) between both platforms, everything points to it being about musical instruments.

Do you know that there are people living outside your country, right? Well eBay charges you for selling stuff to them. Reverb doesn't. Reverb also doesn't charge you VAT for private sales (which is illegal, BTW).

How long do you intend to extend this pointless argument?

 

[Jonathan20022]

Do you know that there are people living outside your country, right? Well eBay charges you for selling stuff to them. Reverb doesn't. Reverb also doesn't charge you VAT for private sales (which is illegal, BTW).

How long do you intend to extend this pointless argument?

The irony of pointing out that not everything revolves around the other person's country, and your first post about fees on a component category that carries a higher fee when every single person in the thread was thinking about and talking about selling instruments.

Cheers man, good luck selling your vacuum tubes. Wasn't arguing, take it up with eBay and Reverb if you have a problem with it.