PSA: Volume is not Tone.

[GunpointMetal]

Holy crap, three shows in the last couple of weeks where the bass/guitars are running full stacks at max volume in venues with two 12" PA speakers on poles for mains and guess what, you can'e hear the drums or vocals and it sounds like utter shit. I get it, some people like excruciating volumes, but nobody is buying your shirts or coming back the next time if you sound like shit and drive everyone outside during your set.
Also, the minor pentatonic stoner riffing thing has been officially canceled until further notice. Ya'll have ruined it by not even bothering to try and come up with a new riff.

 

[TedEH]

I've been to some of these kinds of stoner/doom shows where even the earplugs were not enough and my ears rang for days. Not cool guys.

 

[Lindmann]

This is essential. The guitars have to feedback constantly for this kind of music...hence the volume.

At least that's what I thought when I visited a sludge metal show.

Half of the audience was covering their ears if they were lucky enough not to hold a beer in their hands. This was not because the music was awful (it was cool actually) but because it was very hard to bear these volumes.

 

[GunpointMetal]

This is essential. The guitars have to feedback constantly for this kind of music...hence the volume.

At least that's what I thought when I visited a sludge metal show.

I bet they'd be surprised to find out guitar amps can feed back at moderate volumes in smaller spaces, too. Otherwise just leave drums and the singer int he van, no one is going to know the difference anyways.

 

[Lindmann]

Nah...the sound guy was making up for it by tuning up the volume of the snare.
I was literally flinching at every snare hit. And I am not even joking .
Needless to say that the drummer only played rim shots.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Nah...the sound guy was making up for it by tuning up the volume of the snare.
I was literally flinching at every snare hit. And I am not even joking .
Needless to say that the drummer only played rim shots.

At least in that scenario the PA could get the snare over the stacks. All three of these recent shows I've been at the PA in place was completely drowned out by the amps because they're little dives with maybe $1k worth of gear total for the "PA".

 

[Drew]

I bet they'd be surprised to find out guitar amps can feed back at moderate volumes in smaller spaces, too. Otherwise just leave drums and the singer int he van, no one is going to know the difference anyways.

Saves time on setup and breakdown too!

 

[TedEH]

This is essential. The guitars have to feedback constantly for this kind of music...hence the volume.

I can't help but roll my eyes a bit at the "it NEEDS to be loud" argument. I can cause feedback at low volume in my apartment- why anyone thinks you need to be INSANELY LOUD to get feedback is beyond me.

 

[budda]

Volume is not tone.

But good tone at high volume is more fun.

I'm glad the days of "your solo looked great, but I couldn't hear it" are behind me.

Signed,

In A Band Louder Than The Melvins

 

[TedEH]

Maybe this goes in the unpopular opinion thread, but if your tone really is as good as you think it is, you don't need to be louder than everything else to be heard clearly.

 

[budda]

Maybe this goes in the unpopular opinion thread, but if your tone really is as good as you think it is, you don't need to be louder than everything else to be heard clearly.

I don't think it's a case of "need" to be loud. It's entirely a want.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Deleted for double post.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Being loud is fine. I like hearing sweet toanz at big volumes. But if you have a drummer, and are playing riffs, it'd be nice to, I don't know, hear the drummer and be able to distinguish the difference between what you're playing and the wall of noise you're creating. In the recent cases it doesn't make the bands sound heavy, it makes them sound amateur and poorly rehearsed, which is a bummer for anyone who paid to see a show. You can see lots of terrible, poorly rehearsed bands in basements for "donations".

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

I don't think it's a case of "need" to be loud. It's entirely a want.

Yeah I like this. If you have solid tone, pumping the volume will be fun for everybody (to an extent. I don't want to have to wear earplugs, man).
If you have shit tone, pumping the volume is only going to make it worse all around.

 

[TedEH]

If you have solid tone, pumping the volume will be fun for everybody

I don't know that I'd go that far either. It seems to me that you can only really get away with really "pumping up the volume" in cases where everything lines up great:
- A good enough PA to not be pushing everything
- A good enough sounding room/space to begin with
- Good source tones / gear
- A good enough sound guy to make it not just a loud mess
- A band that sounds good enough to not ruin it via bad playing or poorly dialed in equipment

Coincidentally, those are also the things that make you no longer need to pump the volume up.

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

I don't know that I'd go that far either. It seems to me that you can only really get away with really "pumping up the volume" in cases where everything lines up great:
- A good enough PA to not be pushing everything
- A good enough sounding room/space to begin with
- Good source tones / gear
- A good enough sound guy to make it not just a loud mess
- A band that sounds good enough to not ruin it via bad playing or poorly dialed in equipment

Coincidentally, those are also the things that make you no longer need to pump the volume up.

I think we're saying the same thing; I just consider all of those things to be part of what constitutes a 'solid tone,' because if the PA blows or if the room is tinny you aren't going to have great tone.

 

[TedEH]

I guess what I'm leading to is that volume going up seems to often just be to compensate for some missing element. Tone isn't good? Can't hear yourself? Turn it up! I can think of no cases where excessive volume really is more enjoyable for everyone.

 

[budda]

I guess what I'm leading to is that volume going up seems to often just be to compensate for some missing element. Tone isn't good? Can't hear yourself? Turn it up! I can think of no cases where excessive volume really is more enjoyable for everyone.

AC/DC, motorhead and Sleep. To start.

 

[TedEH]

I still count those as cases where the volume is compensating for a lack of something else. If you don't sound good at a reasonable volume... then you just don't sound that good.

 

[budda]

And in the examples I provided, what is that something else?

 

[Hollowway]

I remember when I was like 21 or 22 I was in this dive bar in a friend's town, and the music (not live band) was just ridiculously loud. We literally couldn't hold a decent conversation with each other, even though were were yelling. I went up to the bar and motioned to the bar tender/owner to turn the music down some. He yelled, "If it's too loud, you're too old!" The dude was like 50 years old. And I remembered how loud my dad listened to the TV. That figure of speech is totally backwards. It's too loud BECAUSE you're too old.

But, I hate super loud shows. At some point along the way, louder started being equated with a longer penis or something. I MUCH prefer a good mix.