PSA: Volume is not Tone.

[MaxOfMetal]

Tone matters at high volume, any volume of rally.

Everyone wants to be Bongripper (can't blame them, they're fucking awesome), but not everyone has thier big, loud rigs dialed in as well.

You can't just go out and buy all the big cabs and old Peaveys and expect great tone. You need to tailor it still.

That's the problem, volume is not a replacement for tone, no matter how many 4x12s, 8x10s and 2x15s you have on stage.

 

[TedEH]

And in the examples I provided, what is that something else?

Good songs? I don't listen to those examples often enough to have a serious answer, but I stick by what I said. If your songs need to be loud to be good... maybe they're not that good.

 

[budda]

Good songs? I don't listen to those examples often enough to have a serious answer, but I stick by what I said. If your songs need to be loud to be good... maybe they're not that good.

Again, they dont need to be loud. The artists just want to be loud.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

When folks start framing a "want" in an argument as a "need", even though no one has said it's "needed", just "wanted", is pointless. The discussion is no longer taking place in good faith. Textbook straw man fallacy.

 

[Seabeast2000]

I can't stand overblown bass in the live mix. I get it, thump your chest to the kick bro, feel the beat, don't hear the music. But its not a nightclub and I'm not on X.
Too loud in general, always brings me back to a half of an Mars Volta opening act for RHCP a while back. God that was awful. Volume definitely worked against the band and the audience %100. RHCP sounded great however.

 

[Rawkmann]

Around here it’s generally the drums and bass that get pushed the most and mixes sound muddy af. When I play shows I don’t even care that much anymore, I’ve got my little 1x12 20 watt combo amp and turn it on and let the sound guy take the reins after that. I don’t do the whole fighting over volume thing anymore.

 

[KailM]

I heard knitting is fun. And safe for your ears.

Can't say I've ever been to a show that was too loud. I've definitely had my ears ringing for an hour or so afterward but nothing that caused cringing at the show. Depending on the music, of course, feeling it is part of the experience that you're not going to get on a recording.

This is not a metal example, but I will never forget the time I heard Flea's first note in an RHCP show that kicked off their Californication tour. It was that first bass slap on the song Around the World. Even at 100 yards away it felt like my chest was going to cave-in. Awesome.

 

[TedEH]

I went to a show once where it ended up being so loud that all you heard was white noise, even with ear plugs in. I'm not exaggerating, it was painfully loud. No hearing protection known to man could have either preventing the ringing afterwards, or made what anyone was playing audible.

 

[KailM]

I went to a show once where it ended up being so loud that all you heard was white noise, even with ear plugs in. I'm not exaggerating, it was painfully loud. No hearing protection known to man could have either preventing the ringing afterwards, or made what anyone was playing audible.

That’s ridiculous. How does the band still hear?

 

[GunpointMetal]

AC/DC, motorhead and Sleep. To start.

Songwriting, hearing, and well, anything interesting (IMO, of course)

I heard knitting is fun. And safe for your ears.

Can't say I've ever been to a show that was too loud. I've definitely had my ears ringing for an hour or so afterward but nothing that caused cringing at the show. Depending on the music, of course, feeling it is part of the experience that you're not going to get on a recording.

This is not a metal example, but I will never forget the time I heard Flea's first note in an RHCP show that kicked off their Californication tour. It was that first bass slap on the song Around the World. Even at 100 yards away it felt like my chest was going to cave-in. Awesome.

I’ll say it again, volume is fine, but if you’re not playing for the room/the people who paid to get it (as far as dialing in your rig and setting levels) just stay in the basement. Makes the whole band look like amateurs.

 

[Mathemagician]

Ugh just reading the first few comments in this thread made my ears ring. Saw at the Gates and behemoth last year and one of the bands that opened was like this. Now I understand why they felt the volume was needed. Doom-sludge is not my thing so TIL.

 

[TedEH]

That’s ridiculous. How does the band still hear?

If I remember correctly, I was also playing that night. None of the bands had any real input on the sound that night. It was all just wing it and hope for the best. Nobody was particularly impressed that day.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

I heard knitting is fun. And safe for your ears.

Can't say I've ever been to a show that was too loud. I've definitely had my ears ringing for an hour or so afterward but nothing that caused cringing at the show. Depending on the music, of course, feeling it is part of the experience that you're not going to get on a recording.

This is not a metal example, but I will never forget the time I heard Flea's first note in an RHCP show that kicked off their Californication tour. It was that first bass slap on the song Around the World. Even at 100 yards away it felt like my chest was going to cave-in. Awesome.

I was at a necrophagist concert and muhammad was running 4 4x12s. It was ridiculous sounding, even with earplugs in. I was standing about 300ft away from the stage and it felt like someone was sledgehammering my chest.
I've yet to be to another indoor metal show that was as loud as that, except for when I saw Gojira.

 

[TedEH]

Gojira

Aaactually... now that I think of it, the last time I can remember a show being stupidly loud but still very clear/audible was Gojira at HeavyMTL. I think that's a case of the sound guy doing a really good job. Arguably it's one of those cases where all the pieces are there: It's a good sounding band, with good gear, a good sound guy, etc.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Bongzilla does it well, (and several of Tiny's other bands he plays with around here) they're crushingly loud, but the tones are pleasant to listen to and there's still balance between the amps/drums/vocals. There's another local band around here called Bereft and they do the whole louder-than-god thing while having great guitar/bass tones and keeping the levels to the point the drums/vocals are still audible.

Jucifer does it awfully. They are loud with bad BAD tone to the point of white noise, and drums and vocals may as well not even be there.

 

[broj15]

My bands does the whole dumb loud thing. It's to the point now when people come see us they know what they're in for. Last show we played in-between songs I heard I guy in the crowd (excitedly) say "I can't see anything, it's too loud" . That being said, we realize every room is different and adjust the eq's accordingly. And our drummer loves it. His kit is pretty loud (dude has a massive kick) and he says it keeps from being lazy by forcing him to play harder. And strangely enough when our vocalist is at 100% (read as she's been drinking her gosh darn water like we tell her to) we can clearly hear her even without a PA. Her screams are just that loud.

I totally get what you mean though. Idc how loud some doom band is. You still sound like a dime store Mastodon/sleep/electric wizard cover band and that's fucking boring regardless of volume.

 

[TedEH]

we can clearly hear her even without a PA. Her screams are just that loud.

If your vocalist is audible with no PA, your stage sound is probably not that high. That's a good thing though. IMO that's another reason too much volume is no good: a vocalist who can't hear themselves is more likely to yell too harshly and potentially damage their voice.

 

[Blasphemer]

when our vocalist is at 100% (read as she's been drinking her gosh darn water like we tell her to) we can clearly hear her even without a PA. Her screams are just that loud.

This just makes me think of this:

 

[angl2k]

Tinnitus sure is fun

The problem lies in people who think being obnoxiously loud (110+ db) is cool or edgy or is part of the 'experience'.

 

[budda]

Tinnitus sure is fun

The problem lies in people who think being obnoxiously loud (110+ db) is cool or edgy or is part of the 'experience'.

If the band decides they want to be loud, then it *is* part of the experience . It may sound great, it may not. But that is still a decision the band makes.