Quantize bass to drums..need help!!
- Thread starter vejichan
- Start date
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Plant
Member
Practice and a metronome would help...
TheEmptyCell
Dingwall Player
How about good, solid practice?
Ryan-ZenGtr-
Well-Known Member
Often you can get latency in your DAW when recording. This can lead to the impression that the performer's timing is off, and can be very depressing for some performers.
You've got three choices;
1.Move the audio in the daw, choip it up and edit, then make a single track from the best takes (called "comp'ing").
2.Blame the performance. More rehearsal, preparation and personal practice time especially with metronom or other electronic time source.
3.Seek and destroy all causes of latency.
Optimise your computers performance, removing background processes, defragmenting hard drives, buying performance enhancing components.
Updating drivers, firmware (chipset/bios) and operating system files to latest versions.
Adjust latency and buffer settings in your DAW and interface to reduce latency when tracking. Lower settings are better for recording, higher settings for playback (removes/prevents glitches/sound artifacts).
Reducing number of active plug ins and audio while tracking. Consider rendering a backing track to stereo for tracking your performance, reducing playback performance demands to the minimum.
Also, disabling your network card and any other peripherals not used while recording can prevent them from polling the CPU and improve performance.
Here are some programmes to help you;
http://www.techspot.com/downloads/4842-game-booster.html
http://www.auslogics.com/en/software/disk-defrag/
http://www.asio4all.com/
Last thing is a mixing technique. You can use a side chain input key (sometimes called trigger) to open a noise gate or compressor when an external audio source is played. Commonly used sounds are 808 hihats or other fast transient sound.
You place this as an insert in your poorly timed track and the gate/compressor will open in time.
If you use drum midi you probably have a suitable source, otherwise you have to programme it.
Beatdetective and other quantising programmes might be worth looking into to. But to be honest, it's usually better to get a good performance than spend hours chopping things up in the DAW.
@chrisharbin
"Not according to Jeff Berlin."
Awesome reference!
You've got three choices;
1.Move the audio in the daw, choip it up and edit, then make a single track from the best takes (called "comp'ing").
2.Blame the performance. More rehearsal, preparation and personal practice time especially with metronom or other electronic time source.
3.Seek and destroy all causes of latency.
Optimise your computers performance, removing background processes, defragmenting hard drives, buying performance enhancing components.
Updating drivers, firmware (chipset/bios) and operating system files to latest versions.
Adjust latency and buffer settings in your DAW and interface to reduce latency when tracking. Lower settings are better for recording, higher settings for playback (removes/prevents glitches/sound artifacts).
Reducing number of active plug ins and audio while tracking. Consider rendering a backing track to stereo for tracking your performance, reducing playback performance demands to the minimum.
Also, disabling your network card and any other peripherals not used while recording can prevent them from polling the CPU and improve performance.
Here are some programmes to help you;
http://www.techspot.com/downloads/4842-game-booster.html
http://www.auslogics.com/en/software/disk-defrag/
http://www.asio4all.com/
Last thing is a mixing technique. You can use a side chain input key (sometimes called trigger) to open a noise gate or compressor when an external audio source is played. Commonly used sounds are 808 hihats or other fast transient sound.
You place this as an insert in your poorly timed track and the gate/compressor will open in time.
If you use drum midi you probably have a suitable source, otherwise you have to programme it.
Beatdetective and other quantising programmes might be worth looking into to. But to be honest, it's usually better to get a good performance than spend hours chopping things up in the DAW.
@chrisharbin
"Not according to Jeff Berlin."
Awesome reference!
It's a tough deal for me because it's not that my timing sucks, as much as it's a PITA to have the guitar/bass in my hands and operate the stuff. And I dunno about others, but the footswitch doesn't always make it easier.
I'm using live a lot. There are many methods for "fixing" with that that are pretty simple. There is actually a way to extract the groove from something and apply it (yes, even from/to audio) I generally just work with something until I get it right (well, in my case, close enough
)
And yeah, latency can be a real PITA. I'm doing pretty good with that though on this computer. 128 buffer size at 48k it's about 8ms round trip, not too bad. Could go lower if I really needed to.
I'm using live a lot. There are many methods for "fixing" with that that are pretty simple. There is actually a way to extract the groove from something and apply it (yes, even from/to audio) I generally just work with something until I get it right (well, in my case, close enough
)And yeah, latency can be a real PITA. I'm doing pretty good with that though on this computer. 128 buffer size at 48k it's about 8ms round trip, not too bad. Could go lower if I really needed to.
ToMurderAMachine
Well-Known Member
^Not to Hijack the thread, but I'm currently having the exact same issue. I'm using an Mbox mini, and the latency Doesn't seem to be too back, but I've been practicing this groove with a metronome for quite some time and its as tight as its gonna get as far as my playing skills go. Anyone feel like having a listen?
Ryan-ZenGtr-
Well-Known Member
@chrisharbin
I know dat feel, bro!
"Goddamit, God himself feels my groove.. yet damn computaaaa reduces my genius to this pathatic level! WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?????!!!!"
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Was meant to be like this...
*shakes fist*
Latency induced ego trauma
I had this happen on a session when I was working free for friends to develop my experience, years ago on a 1.6ghz Athlon (single) CPU.
He was tracking bass and the playback was horribly behind the beat.
He was distraught that it reflected so badly on his playing.
Once I shifted the audio in the DAW back into time to counteract the effects of latency it was perfect. Even after that he was still convinced there was some problem with his playing.
I explained that it wouldn't have fitted perfectly, after latency compensation, if he'd played it wrong.
Don't get hung up about it. If you have set the latency/buffer size to the the best you can achieve with your equipment, fix it with time aligning in your DAW and accept it is part of working in the digital enviroment.
You can measure the latency delay in samples and adjust by exact samples numbers if you like.
Remote recording control? Punch in points!!!
If you having trouble with holding the instrument/operating your DAW, just give yourself a longer count in.
I'm used to 4 bars, some performers prefer more or less before the punch.
If you have to do something complex give yourself more time to get the mind set, or play into your punch in point.
At the end, trim off the excess parts and keep what you needed. Easy!
Some DAW's offer a record on signal level feature, so it won't record until there is signal. Others offer punch in control points, or region recording points, and won't record until the transport marker hits the timeline.
It's usually better to put these points before the section you wish to record, reducing the chances of starting on a note, as it will cause a pop/gltch or artificat on playback and you won't be able to fade the track in to avoid it, as it will be on your desired notes.
Bounced guide mix for tracking
If you're trying to track in a complex session, perhaps bounce the session down to reduce CPU overhead and disk seek times. I think I explained that process in my earlier post.
It's incredibly powerful for ensuring timing accuracy.
I make a rough mix, then mute my about to be tracked buss and render the output. I make extensive use of busses, as should any sane person, sending all similar channels to a suitably named and treated (effects chain) buss, so they can be easily controlled (PFL/Solo, mute, controlled manually and by automation). If your software doesn't have busses it's not professional.
If you need a click track, render that seperately, too.
Some people have a preference about click track tones. I have a series of different samples that have EQ and reverb to make them less;
"I hate you click track, why are you constantly banging in my headphones"
*throws off cans, storms out of studio >>> Door SLAAAAAMMMM*
When you have to listen to it for hours on end a little compassion can go a long way!
Natural sounds from hand percussion work best, wood blocks, taikos, djembes etc.
I then save the session as "Bass guitar tracking 01" (name as applicable) and delete every track and import the stereo bounce, taking care to ensure it is lined up with my markers and any time stretching or BPM information is correct or disabled and the master BPM is set to the correct setting which can offer better results for latency reduction.
This keeps all my labels, tempo markers and regions intact for convenience.
Then I set up all the physical stuff, input levels, sounds, intruments, chairs for musicians, mic's whatever...
And adjust the buffer size/latency settings to low for optimal tracking latency. As there are no VST effects or additional tracks playing the capture should be well sync'd.
Once that's all done and good I comp the performance, save it as audio with a sensible filename and load up the original session with the full multitrack and import the file for mixing when required.
Once you've done it a few times it's easy. Just make sure to use "Save As" and stay away from intoxicants, so you don't overwrite your master session and have to get grief counselling.
I know dat feel, bro!
"Goddamit, God himself feels my groove.. yet damn computaaaa reduces my genius to this pathatic level! WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?????!!!!"
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Was meant to be like this...
*shakes fist*
Latency induced ego trauma
I had this happen on a session when I was working free for friends to develop my experience, years ago on a 1.6ghz Athlon (single) CPU.
He was tracking bass and the playback was horribly behind the beat.
He was distraught that it reflected so badly on his playing.
Once I shifted the audio in the DAW back into time to counteract the effects of latency it was perfect. Even after that he was still convinced there was some problem with his playing.
I explained that it wouldn't have fitted perfectly, after latency compensation, if he'd played it wrong.
Don't get hung up about it. If you have set the latency/buffer size to the the best you can achieve with your equipment, fix it with time aligning in your DAW and accept it is part of working in the digital enviroment.
You can measure the latency delay in samples and adjust by exact samples numbers if you like.
Remote recording control? Punch in points!!!
If you having trouble with holding the instrument/operating your DAW, just give yourself a longer count in.
I'm used to 4 bars, some performers prefer more or less before the punch.
If you have to do something complex give yourself more time to get the mind set, or play into your punch in point.
At the end, trim off the excess parts and keep what you needed. Easy!
Some DAW's offer a record on signal level feature, so it won't record until there is signal. Others offer punch in control points, or region recording points, and won't record until the transport marker hits the timeline.
It's usually better to put these points before the section you wish to record, reducing the chances of starting on a note, as it will cause a pop/gltch or artificat on playback and you won't be able to fade the track in to avoid it, as it will be on your desired notes.
Bounced guide mix for tracking
If you're trying to track in a complex session, perhaps bounce the session down to reduce CPU overhead and disk seek times. I think I explained that process in my earlier post.
It's incredibly powerful for ensuring timing accuracy.
I make a rough mix, then mute my about to be tracked buss and render the output. I make extensive use of busses, as should any sane person, sending all similar channels to a suitably named and treated (effects chain) buss, so they can be easily controlled (PFL/Solo, mute, controlled manually and by automation). If your software doesn't have busses it's not professional.
If you need a click track, render that seperately, too.
Some people have a preference about click track tones. I have a series of different samples that have EQ and reverb to make them less;
"I hate you click track, why are you constantly banging in my headphones"
*throws off cans, storms out of studio >>> Door SLAAAAAMMMM*
When you have to listen to it for hours on end a little compassion can go a long way!
Natural sounds from hand percussion work best, wood blocks, taikos, djembes etc.
I then save the session as "Bass guitar tracking 01" (name as applicable) and delete every track and import the stereo bounce, taking care to ensure it is lined up with my markers and any time stretching or BPM information is correct or disabled and the master BPM is set to the correct setting which can offer better results for latency reduction.
This keeps all my labels, tempo markers and regions intact for convenience.
Then I set up all the physical stuff, input levels, sounds, intruments, chairs for musicians, mic's whatever...
And adjust the buffer size/latency settings to low for optimal tracking latency. As there are no VST effects or additional tracks playing the capture should be well sync'd.
Once that's all done and good I comp the performance, save it as audio with a sensible filename and load up the original session with the full multitrack and import the file for mixing when required.
Once you've done it a few times it's easy. Just make sure to use "Save As" and stay away from intoxicants, so you don't overwrite your master session and have to get grief counselling.
Where?
ToMurderAMachine
Well-Known Member
^ well, Actually somehow I managed to get it to sound good, so no worries haha.
