Question on editing guitar wave forms

[ToneLab]

I'm trying to clean up what is supposed to be a very tight staccato rhythm guitar wave form. In the parts where I have very minor pauses in the rhythm I have some string noise I am trying to pull out between when I stop and then start again. If I delete the wave form where the noise is I get a chunk in the sound with the abrupt deletion. There must be a way to smooth it better so the absence of any noise isn't so noticable? Should I do tight fades instead? I've never tried this before. There must be a better way than actually having to play it tighter?!

 

[Zei]

playing tighter is always better, but where you do the cuts just do really fast fade outs. This makes it sound more natural as well as getting rid of the annoying "pops" you get when you cut.

if you don't want to do fade outs, zoom wayyyyyy into the waveform and cut it right where it passes through the x axis (the line that a sin wave would be symmetrical about). This gives a tight cut with no pops.

 

[Tegara]

You sure you're using a noise gate? Other than that my take on this is that artificially cutting out the silent parts is cheating and sounds unnatural anyways. Play tight, and use a noise gate.

 

[vividox]

Some DAWs can automate tight fades, so all you would have to do is make your cuts, select all, then apply a fade-in/fade-out of, say, 10ms to everything. I know you can do this in SONAR and ProTools, no direct experience with any of the others, but I'm sure most have something like that these days.

 

[vividox]

You sure you're using a noise gate? Other than that my take on this is that artificially cutting out the silent parts is cheating and sounds unnatural anyways. Play tight, and use a noise gate.

This is one of the silliest things I've ever read.

A noise gate DOES artificially cut out the silent parts. In fact, that's the only thing it does. The only difference between cutting silence out in a DAW or with a noise gate is the former is manual and the latter is automated.

 

[Tegara]

We both know what I meant with "artificial". I knew someone was going to nitpick. It takes effort to manually cut them out and even then it sounds worse than a noisegate.

 

[isispelican]

after you have cut the parts you have to find the sweet spot to avoid that chunk sound

 

[vividox]

We both know what I meant with "artificial". I knew someone was going to nitpick. It takes effort to manually cut them out and even then it sounds worse than a noisegate.

No, I don't understand what you mean when you say "artificial". There is absolutely no difference between a series of capacitors and wire boards automatically taking the signal out when it goes under a certain threshold and a person doing it manually using cuts and fades in a DAW. Both ways do the exact same thing to your input signal - they alter the way it eventually sounds.

(And manual cuts only sound worse if you do them wrong.)

The only real difference between a noise gate and manual edits is the noise gate is a lot faster and easier. That certainly makes the noisegate a preference most of the time, but taking a cut to a track in a DAW is in no way "artificial" and it's in no way "cheating". If anything, the noise gate is cheating since it's doing all the work for you.

 

[Tegara]

If they do the exact same thing why even bother doing it manually then? I see no point in it other than trying to polish parts that are played sloppy. This results in what I call an artificial, overproduced sound, because the ends of the notes don't match up with the grid (most seem to be tempted to cut according to the grid and when you don't play tight enough, you're not only removing the noise, but also parts of the notes).

 

[GunpointMetal]

in reaper there is a "cut at nearest zero crossing" macro. I prefer to cut just a little past where the note dies out and the shorten the wave to the end of the note to avoid having the guitars sounding "gridded" but still getting those silent pauses. I'd rather hear a little but of a palm mute going slightly too long (i'm talking the few ms it takes to totally kill a note on a low-tuned string) rather than chop everything to match exactly the hit and duration of the kick notes. Guitars that sound programmed are only cool if they ARE programmed and nobody is pretending that they actually played it.

 

[col]

GVST makes a great free gate plugin called GGate. Give it a go.

 

[vividox]

If they do the exact same thing why even bother doing it manually then?

Reiterated:

That certainly makes the noisegate a preference most of the time

Some people don't have noise gates. That shouldn't mean you just can't record until you get one.

I see no point in it other than trying to polish parts that are played sloppy.
This results in what I call an artificial, overproduced sound, because the ends of the notes don't match up with the grid (most seem to be tempted to cut according to the grid and when you don't play tight enough, you're not only removing the noise, but also parts of the notes).

If you are already using a noise gate, then sure, additional noise probably means you're playing sloppy or don't have your noise gate set correctly.

But c'mon, at least let's stop speaking in generalities here. I recorded without a noise gate for years simply because I was a broke college student and it was never a big deal to just cut and fade. Are you really going to sit there and call me a "cheater" for doing that?

 

[Tegara]

Reiterated:
Some people don't have noise gates

Most DAWs come with their own noise gates. There are also tons of free noise gate plugins available for download. I'm sure you're aware of that.

 

[vividox]

Most DAWs come with their own noise gates. There are also tons of free noise gate plugins available for download. I'm sure you're aware of that.

Sure, but there is a pretty noticeable difference between playing along with a noise gate and applying one to a post-processed signal (which I'm sure you're aware of). Unless it's some crazy syncopation djent thing with a bunch of spaces in it, I'd rather just hit the few trouble spots manually and move on.

 

[Tegara]

I don't think it once was implied that if you use a noise gate plugin, it would be gating the post-processed signal..? What does this have to do with the notion that there are free noise gates available? OP most likely directly plugs his guitar into his interface without any gear between it, and should use a noise gate in the beginning of his plugin chain.

 

[vividox]

I don't think it once was implied that if you use a noise gate plugin, it would be gating the post-processed signal..? What does this have to do with the notion that there are free noise gates available? OP most likely directly plugs his guitar into his interface without any gear between it, and should use a noise gate in the beginning of his plugin chain.

If you've got decent modeling tones, sure. I certainly don't. My tone is in my amp.

 

[Tegara]

Dialing a great tone takes time for sure. Also OP should clarify what he means by very minor pauses, or post a clip of his riffs.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

You can also reduce the amp gain in your modelling preset. Even just a little will tighten it up, you won't have to rely on the gate some much, and the recording will actually be a tad more punchy because the amp gain isn't compressing so much.

Same principle applies if you're mic'ing the amp cab. You can dial back on the amp gain, and/or you can also dial back the input trip slightly, or a very subtle combination of both.

 

[ToneLab]

playing tighter is always better, but where you do the cuts just do really fast fade outs. This makes it sound more natural as well as getting rid of the annoying "pops" you get when you cut.

if you don't want to do fade outs, zoom wayyyyyy into the waveform and cut it right where it passes through the x axis (the line that a sin wave would be symmetrical about). This gives a tight cut with no pops.

Thanks everyone - this is really what I wanted to know about. Good point on the noise gate, I use a Kemper so that couldn't be easier - but I didn't think about it I'm a bedroom player so I'm just having fun with it and trying to get better with producing my own stuff. Definitely not cheating anyone but myself!

For what it's worth I'm pretty sure most studio produced music today has engineers editing waveforms if its of benefit in one way or another, pans/fades, clean ups, etc. Also isn't slip editing basically micro cuts to wave forms to tighten up playing?

 

[TallestFiddle]

If I have a syncopated part, even when I use a noise gate it can get a bit unclean. I spend a lot of time tracking my parts, but in the end sometimes you need to do a bit of editing to make it sound more professional. There's nothing wrong with that, If I'm listening to music I appreciate how something sounds more than how it was made. If you're getting a pop sound it probably means that when you're coming back from silence at the wrong point. You want to cut out noise, but you still want to start the waveform on the normal start of the note. You can always cut out and move single notes small amounts to get them to the right spot. Just be careful because a lot of times you can hear how unnatural it is and you don't want that. You want it to be perceived as a single take if possible.