Reference Tracks - Should I be Using Them for Mastering?

BusinessMan

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I’m currently working on mastering my debut ep. All the songs are mixed how I like, but I’m having trouble getting a consistent sound between them. Would using a reference track and/or plugin be beneficial in this endeavor? Also any other tips on the subject would be very helpful.
 

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crushingpetal

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I don't think so. Reference tracks are usually used during the mixing phase. You could take your standout track and use it as the reference for the other tracks, though.

Say more about inconsistent sound (dynamics, eq, etc.). Without knowing the details, this sounds like something to fix in the mixing stage.
 

BusinessMan

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I don't think so. Reference tracks are usually used during the mixing phase. You could take your standout track and use it as the reference for the other tracks, though.

Say more about inconsistent sound (dynamics, eq, etc.). Without knowing the details, this sounds like something to fix in the mixing stage.
Would I use the main mix from the standout track or would I use the already mastered track?

As for inconsistent sound, I think it’s more eq related. I’m using the same guitar tones, drum settings etc
 
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crushingpetal

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Would I use the main mix from the standout track or would I use the already mastered track?

As for inconsistent sound, I think it’s more eq related. I’m using the same guitar tones, drum settings etc
I think about mastering as mostly getting levels correct (for the release format) and making the songs work as a whole.

1) I would start with your standout track, get the levels right (limiting, compression).
2) get matching levels with the other tracks.
3) use your standout track as a reference, and make the smallest eq changes to the other tracks to match the standout track.

You might be surprised that some of the inconsistencies you're hearing are more about level and dynamics than eq. If you want, post two tracks and I'm sure people will give options about how to match them.
 

TedEH

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I would think having a reference, at any point - mix, master, whatever - is always going to be helpful to keep your perspective grounded to something. I think you'd get pretty varied answers as to how much a mix vs. a master should affect eq balance, but even just a volume / dynamics change can pretty drastically change how you perceive the end result, so I'd still want to be checking it against something.

I'm not a pro, and I've never really watched a pro as they work through their mastering process, but my own "mastering", janky as it is, has always involved some really subtle eq - chopping off the very extremes that aren't likely to be useful on most playback devices, and a subtle final "shaping" pass.
 

crushingpetal

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I'm not a pro, and I've never really watched a pro as they work through their mastering process, but my own "mastering", janky as it is, has always involved some really subtle eq - chopping off the very extremes that aren't likely to be useful on most playback devices, and a subtle final "shaping" pass.
Yes. Typically subtle is the aim. I would also say, if you need big eq moves, go back and fix it in the mix. Some of this "cohesion" should even be happening during pre-production.

For an entirely different perspective, listen to a "sampler" or "various artists" releases for how many different songs can fit together.
 

GunpointMetal

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What I see more experienced people than I doing is using a reference for the “feature” track, then using that track as the reference for the others, and they will get things sounding good then check against the loudest section of the reference and loudest section of the following tracks so that you are setting a top limit for loudness/dynamics and allowing the stuff below that to breathe and have the song to song dynamic.
 

TedEH

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Maybe a bit of a tangent / hijack, but how often are people mastering their tracks drastically different from one to the next in the same project? If you have the same source sounds, the same(ish) mix, etc., and your mastering moves are subtle, wouldn't it be a good bet that your mastering chain is applicable to the whole project? Save for automation for certain bits, etc.
 

AwakenTheSkies

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Yes, but you should have been using reference tracks since the beginning. You aren't going to get your mix to sound like your reference tracks by just "mastering", but I guess it's a good way to control the highs and lows.
Anyway from what I've learned the last years none of us are "mastering" anything. The point of mastering is that someone else does it, with specialized space and equipment for that. What we bedroom musicians do is just mixbus processing. There is no mastering happening here 😆
 

TedEH

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There is no mastering happening here
I mean, it's a semantics game at that point. If no other processing happens before it's distributed, then that last master bus processing is about as close to mastering as you're gonna get.

If mastering is "the last steps taken to prepare a mix for playback elsewhere", then plenty of us are doing "mastering". Maybe not well, maybe not to a professional standard, but the shoe fits.
 

Drew

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I’m currently working on mastering my debut ep. All the songs are mixed how I like, but I’m having trouble getting a consistent sound between them. Would using a reference track and/or plugin be beneficial in this endeavor? Also any other tips on the subject would be very helpful.
Welcome to the hard paert of mastering. :lol: For various reasons a lot of people tend to see mastering as taking a max and "making it CD volume," and there's an element of that... but a HUGE part of it is making sure there's consistency from song to song, both overall EQ and "sound," and perceived volume. I don't think for this particular problem, differences in "sound" from song to song, a reference track while mastering is the answer, in part because your question kind of points to the right answer here - your best reference track to get all the songs sounding more consistent... is all the other songs.

I'll also add that, if you really have pronounced differences from track to track... then one of the options you should keep on the table here is to go back to the mixing phase and work on getting a more consistent sound from your mixes.

Maybe a bit of a tangent / hijack, but how often are people mastering their tracks drastically different from one to the next in the same project? If you have the same source sounds, the same(ish) mix, etc., and your mastering moves are subtle, wouldn't it be a good bet that your mastering chain is applicable to the whole project? Save for automation for certain bits, etc.
I'm hardly a pro, but one of the projects I've done was self-mastered and I put a lot of work into the mastering phase of the project as well. And, I guess I'd say, "to a degree, yes."

How I handled it was added the final mixdown of every track into a project in Reaper as its own track, and then basically slip-edited them into how I wanted the album to flow, adjusting the space between tracks, etc. Any fades I programmed, not at the track level but with volume automation on the master bus. Then, I started by throwing an instance of ReaComp on every track, and iteratively adjusted (light!!!) compression settings and track levels until I felt I was at a point where all tracks were, at their loudest bits, peaking comparatively, but also all had comparable perceived volume. For the most part things sounded pretty consistent from track to track - no easy feat in the mixing phase, since this was recorded in multiple sessions over several years - but did some light tweaks there as needed too.

Then, when I had the flow of the album sorted out, consistent peaks, AND consistent perceived volume, and no obvious unintended sonic differences from song to song... THEN I started putting together a mastering chain on the master bus. Once I had that to where I was happy with what I was hearing, it sounded good to my ears and was comparable in level to the couple commercial releases I was using as a reference throughout this problem, I saved everything and then exported song by song using the export section function, and just keeping the end of one section as the start of the next.

Yes, but you should have been using reference tracks since the beginning. You aren't going to get your mix to sound like your reference tracks by just "mastering", but I guess it's a good way to control the highs and lows.
Anyway from what I've learned the last years none of us are "mastering" anything. The point of mastering is that someone else does it, with specialized space and equipment for that. What we bedroom musicians do is just mixbus processing. There is no mastering happening here 😆
Yes and no. Again there's this attitude that mastering is "make it louder." If that's all youre doing, throwing a multiband compression plugin preset and then a limiter with like 5db of makeup gain, then that's not really mastering... but, also, it's not like you need special plugins or rack gear, special monitors, and a special space to master, any more than you need special plugins and rack gear, secial monitors, and a special space to mix. There are upsides to having a second set of ears on the project, sure... but that's just as true as going from mixing to mastering, as it is going from engineering to mixing, and most of us already do both there.

I don't think the mastering process is necessarily very well understood in the home recording world, but it's also not some dark art incomprehensible to mere mortals like us, either. It IS a lot more than "louder-ize my mix!" though.
 

BusinessMan

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Welcome to the hard paert of mastering. :lol: For various reasons a lot of people tend to see mastering as taking a max and "making it CD volume," and there's an element of that... but a HUGE part of it is making sure there's consistency from song to song, both overall EQ and "sound," and perceived volume. I don't think for this particular problem, differences in "sound" from song to song, a reference track while mastering is the answer, in part because your question kind of points to the right answer here - your best reference track to get all the songs sounding more consistent... is all the other songs.

I'll also add that, if you really have pronounced differences from track to track... then one of the options you should keep on the table here is to go back to the mixing phase and work on getting a more consistent sound from your mixes.


I'm hardly a pro, but one of the projects I've done was self-mastered and I put a lot of work into the mastering phase of the project as well. And, I guess I'd say, "to a degree, yes."

How I handled it was added the final mixdown of every track into a project in Reaper as its own track, and then basically slip-edited them into how I wanted the album to flow, adjusting the space between tracks, etc. Any fades I programmed, not at the track level but with volume automation on the master bus. Then, I started by throwing an instance of ReaComp on every track, and iteratively adjusted (light!!!) compression settings and track levels until I felt I was at a point where all tracks were, at their loudest bits, peaking comparatively, but also all had comparable perceived volume. For the most part things sounded pretty consistent from track to track - no easy feat in the mixing phase, since this was recorded in multiple sessions over several years - but did some light tweaks there as needed too.

Once you had all the tracks where you want in the same project, I’m assuming you exported them all separately?

Also thanks everyone for the info!
 
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