Replacing pickups in Schecter ATX... P90's?

[chili]

Hi all, first post here though I've been lurking around for a couple of years

I'm thinking about ordering a set of 7-string P90's from Vintage Vibe Guitars, but I'm hesitating for a couple of reasons. The main one is I've never heard, let alone played a 7 with P90's. Are they the same "kind-hearted hooligan" as when they're in a six-string? The other reasons are whether they will be versatile enough, and in the back of my mind noise/hum is a small concern too.

The guitar they're for is a Schecter ATX Solo 7, my second 7-string. I've had it for a couple of months now (the wait to get it almost killed me!), but I'm finding trouble getting a tone I like and I tend to keep reaching for my other two fav's - a Schecter Damien 7-FR with Full Shred in the neck and an Invader in the bridge, or my PRS SE "One" which is like a Les Paul Jr, just a bridge P90.

The Damien with the Invader has zero subtlety, like a big-block in a Duster, and the "One" is like a little Hot-Rod. While they're both very different, they both have a lot of mid-range and relatively quite a lot of bass, are very punchy and gritty, and a little loose and out-of-control, and I like that . The Blackouts in the ATX on the other the hand have enormous output, but they're almost too refined and polite in comparison.

The music I write/play is rock of sorts, not metal. I guess it's some combo of heavy rock, blues, punk, grunge and a little metal. Not conventional 7 stuff, but I play the Damien 7 more than any other guitar. My rig is a variety of overdrive/distortion/fuzz pedals into either my RP355 on a clean-ish Fender-ish setting, or the clean channel of a Bugera V55. I tune down a half step.

So... can someone convince me P90's in the ATX would rip? Or should I go for something a little safer? (Eg SH-2 Jazz in the neck, SH-5 Custom in the bridge)

cheers,
chili

 

[chili]

Still hesitant to order the P90's, so I'm going to keep messing with the Blackouts and see if I can get them to sound more to my liking, and might throw in the EMG 81-7 I have and try that too.
Any comments on P90's, or getting the best out of Blackouts (for non-metal) appreciated

 

[The Reverend]

Perhaps try one of the EMG X-series? I had the EMG 707X in my ATX C-7 for quite some time.

 

[Wrecklyss]

I plan on ordering a Vintage Vibe on Friday. It should arrive some time next week. If you can wait for a week, i'll do a review once i install it. In my head i'm shooting for a sort of Corrosion of Conformity raw, driving energy sound. I will also hand wind a De Armond style P-90, but that will take a little more time. I'll be pairing it with an Anderson H2+ in the bridge with a series/parallel push/pull pot. Will be interesting, should sound good. I'll let you know.

 

[chili]

Did the 707X sound much different to the Blackouts? I've heard the X's are kind of EMG's version of Blackouts.

I've heard of, but never listened to Corrosion of Conformity 'til just now... I'm liking them a lot! The stuff I'm doing is broadly similar and that's in the vicinity of the kind of tones I'm going for. Intro to "Albatross" is waaaaay cool, "Vote With A Bullet" is cool, and "Drowning In A Daydream" is my kinda tune. I will have to get some of their albums.

Let me know how you go with the Vintage Vibe. Is a P90 style you're ordering? What's it going into?

I'm also going to try and see if I can get to the Schecter dealer here in the next week or so. I know they'll have an ATX in stock, if I'm lucky they might have a C-7 Custom so I can compare Blackouts to passives in mahogany. (I probably should have done that before I ordered the Solo 7!)

 

[Wrecklyss]

I'm thinking P-90 with AlNiCo 5 and a spare set of ceramics. The guitar is a Schecter Avenger A-7+, mahogany body, maple neck, Floyd with Hipshot tremsetter.

"Albatross" is my go to song when i need to get pumped up.

 

[The Reverend]

Did the 707X sound much different to the Blackouts? I've heard the X's are kind of EMG's version of Blackouts.

I'm also going to try and see if I can get to the Schecter dealer here in the next week or so. I know they'll have an ATX in stock, if I'm lucky they might have a C-7 Custom so I can compare Blackouts to passives in mahogany. (I probably should have done that before I ordered the Solo 7!)

Blackouts are way hotter than any seven-string EMG made. The X-series are actually less output, and less compressed, giving you the headroom that a good passive pup would give. I actually had an EMG 707-X in the neck position for cleans and leads and a Blackout in the bridge for ultimate br00tz for a bit. The 707-X in the bridge didn't give me enough ripping, gain-loving tone, but for your purposes it may just be a good deal.

 

[chili]

I'd kinda dismissed the X's as the reviews I've read are pretty mixed, but it sounds like I should reconsider. Maybe a 707X, or even a 60-7X, could give me the kind of tone I'm looking for without any major mods.
I saw Cosmitron had 707X's in an EC407 and sounds like he plays more rock like I do, but I can't find any review of what he thought of the pickups. I'll message him.

 

[chili]

Face-palm! Didn't even think 'til now that I have a 707tw not doing anything. I had it in the Damien in the neck for a while and it was a little too strong on the B string, but in the bridge of the ATX it might be worth a try, and not cost me anything

 

[The Reverend]

Face-palm! Didn't even think 'til now that I have a 707tw not doing anything. I had it in the Damien in the neck for a while and it was a little too strong on the B string, but in the bridge of the ATX it might be worth a try, and not cost me anything

Good going, man.

 

[chili]

Yeah, I probably should've thought of it earlier

I managed to try a few things over the weekend...

I put the Blackout neck in the bridge position and it was a small step in the right direction. More mids, maybe a tiny bit more bottom end, plenty of output. Overall still a bit "nice", hard to get any real grit/growl out of it and pretty thin on the bottom end.

At the same time for a giggle I put the 81-7 in the neck position and it surprised me, it sounds ok. Weaker bottom end compared to the Blackout neck as you'd expect, but it has a distinct character, and more character in the mid-range than the Blackout. It showed me I prefer the tone/character of the EMG's compared to the Blackouts.

Yesterday I put the 707tw in the bridge. It's got a little bit of hum to it so I've done something wrong with the grounding/shielding, but vol and tone controls and switches are working ok so wiring is correct. Lower output, but more of the mid-range kind of sound that I'm after - I managed to get a nice growl out it With the 81-7 in the neck as low as I can set it and 707tw as high as I can get it the 81-7 is still louder than the 707tw, which is probably right as the 81-7 is normally meant for the bridge.

Overall however the 707tw, and the Blackouts, lack the bottom end in the bridge pickup I was hoping for. I was hoping to get a Les Paul Jr kind of punch out of it, but it seems to me the brightness of the ebony fretboard (and maybe the T-O-M/string through body) is countering the darkness of the mahogany body/neck a lot more than I expected. Does this sound right? (It's the first ebony fretboard guitar I've had.)

I did get a message back from Cosmitron re the 707X's, and his observation was that the X's were not that much different to the normal 707's. Ie better, but still an EMG flavour.

 

[BabUShka]

When it comes to EMG's, for me its always mahogany + 81.
I have a 81 in my LP, in my ATX and a 81-7 in my Hellraiser C7. Very bright and agressive pickup with clear output. Just how I like it. But imo, if I played rock as my main music genre, I'd go passives. They tend to have better low gain respons imo.

 

[TRENCHLORD]

I must have missed something lol.
Where did the 81-7 come from, and if you already have it, then why isn't it in the bridge?
It should cut beautifully in the warm sounding schecter (hog body and neck?).

Also, have you tried 18v mod? I ended up craving that extra compression of 9v, but 18v mod does open up the tone some.
It's an easy and cheap try. It's a simular sound to X-series (more open and less compressed, but still bright and cutting).

 

[chili]

When it comes to EMG's, for me its always mahogany + 81.
I have a 81 in my LP, in my ATX and a 81-7 in my Hellraiser C7. Very bright and agressive pickup with clear output. Just how I like it. But imo, if I played rock as my main music genre, I'd go passives. They tend to have better low gain respons imo.

Ok, I'm really curious - how do the ATX (C-1 or C-7?) and the Hellraiser compare? Is the ATX much brighter?

I must have missed something lol.
Where did the 81-7 come from, and if you already have it, then why isn't it in the bridge?
It should cut beautifully in the warm sounding schecter (hog body and neck?).

Also, have you tried 18v mod? I ended up craving that extra compression of 9v, but 18v mod does open up the tone some.
It's an easy and cheap try. It's a simular sound to X-series (more open and less compressed, but still bright and cutting).

My Damien 7 FR came with HZ's and I got the 707tw(n) and 81-7(b) not long after I bought it. I ran 9v for a while and then 18v, definitely preferred 18v at the time. The 707tw in the neck was nice, dirty or clean, but a bit boomy on the B string. Single coil mode is nice, has quite a unique tone and feel. I really like the 81-7 for lead work, and it's punchy for rhythm riffs but was a little thin and missing the real thick bottom end I like. I changed back to the HZ's for a while then fitted a Full Shred(n) and Invader(b). The Invader in that guitar was a gamble but turned out to be exactly what I was looking for .

(Edit: Since I bought the Damien and the 707/81-7 my tastes have changed a little and drifted back to this search for a gritty/punchy/thick/medium gain tone, and the Invader through my Germanium Big Muff into a clean amp nails it pretty well.)

I did briefly try the 81-7 in the ATX in the bridge and it sounded good but still a little thin on the bottom end so that's why I tried the 707tw, which is a little thicker. It is mahogany body and neck, but it's a lot brighter than I expected and I'm not certain why but guessing it's the ebony fretboard.

I fixed the hum tonight, the switching pot was just touching inside the control cavity. I received the latest fix for my growing addiction to overdrive/distortion pedals tonight (MXR Distortion III) and tested it with the ATX, and with the EMG's it's really started to grow on me. It still very bright compared to the Damien but I'm getting used to it.

There is something kinda nice about the tone with 9v, but I will change it to 18v to compare, and swap the pickups too. I have a feeling the 707 in the neck will work a lot better on this guitar, and I'll spend some time on the 81-7 in the bridge again.

A few random thoughts...

• I think P90 style pickups in this guitar might sound a little too bright so I'm going to pass on that idea for the moment.
• Maybe an EMG SPC tone control could fatten up the 707tw or the 81-7 in the bridge?
• I'm scouting ebay for good prices on 707's and 60-7's, either could be an option...
• Or I could put Invaders in EVERY guitar, lol (except the PRS SE One!)

 

[chili]

PS: Both 7's are fitted with Dunlop "Heavy Core" strings (10-60).
The ATX has an issue with the plain strings "ringing" behind the bridge, some of the saddles are not a super tight fit in the bridge. The Heavy Core strings helped a bit, little pieces of foam under the strings stopped it (EMG packaging is useful for so many things!). I need to get some nail polish or something to put on the saddles.

 

[The Reverend]

PS: Both 7's are fitted with Dunlop "Heavy Core" strings (10-60).
The ATX has an issue with the plain strings "ringing" behind the bridge, some of the saddles are not a super tight fit in the bridge. The Heavy Core strings helped a bit, little pieces of foam under the strings stopped it (EMG packaging is useful for so many things!). I need to get some nail polish or something to put on the saddles.

I have this same issue, but I used electrical tape instead.

EMG foam is the best thing ever, though.

 

[chili]

So, in an act of either inspired genius... or complete madness... I found out what a P90 in a Schecter 7 sounds like...

It sounds, all things considered (ie a 6-string pickup in a 7), like a P90 in a 7-string. Ie freakin' awesome!

I had it in there with wires hanging everywhere, and it was humming a lot, but it took about a minute to dial in a tone I was looking for. Very different clean tone to any of the actives, more mids and bottom and nowhere near as bright. Still brighter than the PRS SE, but only a little, it sounded like a P90 should and this has allayed my fears of it being too bright. I messed around with some pedals and got some nice dirty, punchy tones and once I pulled out the Little Big Muff found some awesome tones along the lines of the intro to Albatross

I left all my settings the same and put the 707tw back in and played with the Little Big Muff some more and actually got an Albatross-ish tone in single coil mode. There is more experimentation to be done...