Request: troubleshooting + guitar setup

[MildlyMoist]

Hello forum,

I recently got myself a 7 string guitar (HOORAY)

It's a dean vendetta 1.7, second hand from a friend of mine, he bought it about a month ago, but couldnt really get into it (he plays jazz, thought it'd be nice to have 7 strings). Anway, it played like an absolute dream in standard tuning.

So here's where my problems started, i bought this guitar to play in the low tunings of the bands i like to listen to (bands not compatible with low 6 strings anyway) like periphery and Sithu aye just as examples.

I got some nice low strings, i believe 10-52 ? and a 66 for the heavy (thickest the music shop had. For drop G#.

And i got the worst fret buzz i've ever heard. so i raised the action, better, but the action was too high to be playable once the buzz disappeared. so i gave it some neck relief, and lowered the action to compensate. no 1st fret buzz anymore, but now i have fret buzz from maybe 10-12th fret onwards on all strings, but my action is already pretty damn high, and im not confident with giving the neck more relief.

Sorry this is a wall of text, but im hoping this covers all the basics and answers the questions you might have that i've already asked myself...

I will be on all night/day to troubleshoot this with you guys, and i can give pictures if you need them!

Thanks in advance, Nic

 

[asilayamazing]

whats the scale? i have a 70 for G on a 25.5 and its too floppy. also i seem to get a little the lower i go. raised the action just a lil on the low string side.

 

[MildlyMoist]

whats the scale? i have a 70 for G on a 25.5 and its too floppy. also i seem to get a little the lower i go. raised the action just a lil on the low string side.

Dean website says it's 25-1/2" Scale

The 66 i'd say isnt floppy at all for me, perhaps a little loose. But nothing that would cause problems while playing

And it's a G#

 

[asilayamazing]

Dean website says it's 25-1/2" Scale

The 66 i'd say isnt floppy at all for me, perhaps a little loose. But nothing that would cause problems while playing

And it's a G#

its hard to tell over the comp. but what if you tune up to A is ther still buzz? if not i would say perhaps the string is too loose for G#

 

[MildlyMoist]

its hard to tell over the comp. but what if you tune up to A is ther still buzz? if not i would say perhaps the string is too loose for G#

The buzz is uniform over all strings, all 7 from 12th fret onwards. Even though the action is so high to the point that it's messing with the intonation due to the distance from fret to string.

I cant find any balance at all, lowing the skinny strings and moving the thicker strings up causes fret buzz in the middle strings. lifting all of them causes intonation problems and unplayable action. Too low and they all buzz like mad.

 

[asilayamazing]

you said you already adjusted the truss?

 

[MildlyMoist]

you said you already adjusted the truss?

Yes i gave the neck some relief because the fret buzz was almost exclusive to the first and second fret.

Now the fret buzz is exclusive to 12th fret+

 

[asilayamazing]

how much relief? i suggest 1/4 turns at a time, and at least 8-24 hours for the "adjustment" to take effect. is it possible its a "reverse bow" now?

 

[MildlyMoist]

how much relief? i suggest 1/4 turns at a time, and at least 8-24 hours for the "adjustment" to take effect. is it possible its a "reverse bow" now?

With the guitar sitting on my lap, normal playing stance, whatever you want to call it. The neck bends away from my body, but only slightly. it's only noticable when you look from bridge to nut holding the guitar like a sniper rifle

 

[asilayamazing]

With the guitar sitting on my lap, normal playing stance, whatever you want to call it. The neck bends away from my body, but only slightly. it's only noticable when you look from bridge to nut holding the guitar like a sniper rifle

its possilbe that you gave it TOO much relief. i may be wrong but i believe the adjustments mainly affect the middle. anyways i found this on another forum.

"if the headstock is pulling forward, toward the strings, that is ok, if it is pulling away from the strings, that is what is causing the buzz. * If it's a kink in the neck (it is dead straight for a while, and all of a sudden bows away) then it needs to be repaired."

so if you adjusted the relief too far back it may be the problem SHOULD not bend back as straight as possible. heres is another thing to try if you havent already.


EDIT: make sure you give the neck time to adjust at least 4-8 hours. preferably 24.

"To check the amount of bow in a neck many people look down the length of it and basically eyeball it. There is a slightly more scientific way to do this without any special equipment. Fret your low E string (the big one) at the first fret and at the highest fret (this will obviously require two hands). Look down on the neck from above (like if you were playing) and observe the height relationship of the string with the neck and frets. When the string is held against the highest and lowest fret there should be a gap between the 12th fret and the string. If they are touching or too close to each other you probably need to put more bow in your neck to prevent fret buzz from occurring somewhere on the fingerboard. If they are too far apart you may want less bow in your neck to make it easier to play. These are truss rod adjustments. Turn it about an eighth or quarter of a turn at a time and observe what happens to this string/fret relationship. This technique is useful because it eliminates the bridge and nut (the overall string height, or action) from the equation and lets you look only at the shape of the neck. Personal preferences will differ, but most players prefer this gap at the 12th fret to be between 1/32 and 1/8 of an inch, sometimes more for bass. It also depends on the thickness of the strings and the height of the strings as determined by the bridge. There are many variables that interact with one another, which is why good guitar techs are well worth the money."

hope i help some.

 

[MildlyMoist]

its possilbe that you gave it TOO much relief. i may be wrong but i believe the adjustments mainly affect the middle. anyways i found this on another forum.

"if the headstock is pulling forward, toward the strings, that is ok, if it is pulling away from the strings, that is what is causing the buzz. * If it's a kink in the neck (it is dead straight for a while, and all of a sudden bows away) then it needs to be repaired."

so if you adjusted the relief too far back it may be the problem SHOULD not bend back as straight as possible. heres is another thing to try if you havent already.


EDIT: make sure you give the neck time to adjust at least 4-8 hours. preferably 24.

"To check the amount of bow in a neck many people look down the length of it and basically eyeball it. There is a slightly more scientific way to do this without any special equipment. Fret your low E string (the big one) at the first fret and at the highest fret (this will obviously require two hands). Look down on the neck from above (like if you were playing) and observe the height relationship of the string with the neck and frets. When the string is held against the highest and lowest fret there should be a gap between the 12th fret and the string. If they are touching or too close to each other you probably need to put more bow in your neck to prevent fret buzz from occurring somewhere on the fingerboard. If they are too far apart you may want less bow in your neck to make it easier to play. These are truss rod adjustments. Turn it about an eighth or quarter of a turn at a time and observe what happens to this string/fret relationship. This technique is useful because it eliminates the bridge and nut (the overall string height, or action) from the equation and lets you look only at the shape of the neck. Personal preferences will differ, but most players prefer this gap at the 12th fret to be between 1/32 and 1/8 of an inch, sometimes more for bass. It also depends on the thickness of the strings and the height of the strings as determined by the bridge. There are many variables that interact with one another, which is why good guitar techs are well worth the money."

hope i help some.

So i checked this by fretting the 1st and last frets, and checking each string distance at the 12th fret, and none of them are even close. Yet there's still fret buzz from the 12th fret onwards when playing normally.

 

[asilayamazing]

So i checked this by fretting the 1st and last frets, and checking each string distance at the 12th fret, and none of them are even close. Yet there's still fret buzz from the 12th fret onwards when playing normally.

close to what? did you adjust your neck back? you said it was pulling away from the body slightly. unless i misinterpreted.

 

[MildlyMoist]

close to what? did you adjust your neck back? you said it was pulling away from the body slightly. unless i misinterpreted.

My apologies, should have specified.

When fretting in said method, the strings do not touch the neck.
when i said body i meant MY body, again my fault

 

[asilayamazing]

did you relieve the truss(loosen)? id say take a good look at the neck from all possible angles you want it as flat as possible before adjusting action, but if you find the that the neck bows away or starts bending around the 12th fret after adjustment, i may be wrong but i dont think the truss can fix that and it will need to be proffessionally repaired. i have a classical guitar from 1968. that the bow begins where the neck connects to the body(around 12th reverse bow away bent back towards me in playing position) and i will need to get it professionally repaired.

 

[MildlyMoist]

did you relieve the truss(loosen)? id say take a good look at the neck from all possible angles you want it as flat as possible before adjusting action, but if you find the that the neck bows away or starts bending around the 12th fret after adjustment, i may be wrong but i dont think the truss can fix that and it will need to be proffessionally repaired. i have a classical guitar from 1968. that the bow begins where the neck connects to the body(around 12th reverse bow away bent back towards me in playing position) and i will need to get it professionally repaired.

After long searching and googling, i found out my neck had too much relief, causing the same effects as not enough relief.

I straightened the neck again, leaving slight relief still, and the buzzing as all but gone pretty much.

But now i have a new problem. Intionation on my heaviest string (66gauge in low g#) is too sharp at fretted 12th fret, even though the string saddle is at the end of it's thread in the right direction.

Can this be fixed with a heavier string ? (a lot of people on this forum seem to use at least a 68-70 for g#, im using 66)

 

[C2Aye]

After long searching and googling, i found out my neck had too much relief, causing the same effects as not enough relief.

I straightened the neck again, leaving slight relief still, and the buzzing as all but gone pretty much.

But now i have a new problem. Intionation on my heaviest string (66gauge in low g#) is too sharp at fretted 12th fret, even though the string saddle is at the end of it's thread in the right direction.

Can this be fixed with a heavier string ? (a lot of people on this forum seem to use at least a 68-70 for g#, im using 66)

I use a .52 gauge for my low G#. I know that's stupidly light but maybe a slightly lighter gauge may help, like a .60 maybe? Increased string gauge equals more tension on the neck so a lighter gauge may help with intonation, especially on a 25.5" scale neck. Then again, I may have no idea what I'm talking about

 

[JamesM]

You use WHAT for G#?

I use a 72 at 26.5"!

 

[C2Aye]

You use WHAT for G#?

I use a 72 at 26.5"!

Haha

I had a 9-52 set on my 7 string (25.52 scale) when it was in B-E-A-D-G-B-E standard and when I went down to G#-D#-G#-C#-F#-A#-D# I just kept using that string gauge and set up the guitar to that tuning for the gauges I was using. Every subsequent set I bought for the 7 string has been the 9-52 set because I saw no reason to change. I bet you couldn't tell that from my recordings!

Sithu Aye, using Strats and the wrong string gauges for djent since 2011

 

[MildlyMoist]

Haha

I had a 9-52 set on my 7 string (25.52 scale) when it was in B-E-A-D-G-B-E standard and when I went down to G#-D#-G#-C#-F#-A#-D# I just kept using that string gauge and set up the guitar to that tuning for the gauges I was using. Every subsequent set I bought for the 7 string has been the 9-52 set because I saw no reason to change. I bet you couldn't tell that from my recordings!

Sithu Aye, using Strats and the wrong string gauges for djent since 2011

What bridge is your 7 string ? Because i have a strat with a ffloyd rose and i can get away with lighter strings on that with lower tunings than a fixed bridge.

Then again, the only reason i got a 7 string was to play along to you and periphery, if you went to drop A (A E A D G B E ) i wouldnt need heavy strings anyway I dont think a 52 would work, a 66 is flappy enough ><

 

[C2Aye]

What bridge is your 7 string ? Because i have a strat with a ffloyd rose and i can get away with lighter strings on that with lower tunings than a fixed bridge.

Then again, the only reason i got a 7 string was to play along to you and periphery, if you went to drop A (A E A D G B E ) i wouldnt need heavy strings anyway I dont think a 52 would work, a 66 is flappy enough ><

I have a floyd rose style bridge on my 7 string, so maybe that helps! Also, I have quite a few songs for six string as well so do don't always need to go low to play my stuff