Returning used gear from forum deals

[Steinmetzify]

I've noticed a disturbing trend regard used gear deals the last few months...people wanting to return used gear. I'm going to be honest here and say that this thought has never ONCE crossed my mind.

Like a lot of you, I work, have a family and play guitar for fun. Sometimes I've been in bands, more often it's a hobby, albeit an all consuming one. I join forums to talk about playing guitar, see what people are doing as far as mods go, and look for deals on stuff I'd like to buy and or trade for.

I've been through a lot of guitars. You trade for some, you buy some outright, etc....and some of them are not for you. For whatever reason, they're just not. Neck shape, pickups, scale length, body wood, whatever, they're just not THE ONE. We've all been there. If there is actually a person on here that's been completely satisfied with every single guitar they've ever bought, then right on and good for you. I'm not that guy.

At any rate, I buy and sell amps and modelers and guitars or trade for them. Some of them are keepers and some aren't, and I take my losses and off the ones that I don't need or want in lieu of something different, and call it a day and cross that particular model off the list. I'm sure a lot of you do the same. I have never once asked a guy for my money back on something I didn't like just because I didn't like it. If I buy/trade for something and don't like it, I consider it my responsibility to take pics, list it up on forums and Reverb or wherever and sell it on my own. I don't just call the guy that sold it to me and ask for my $ back. I realize he's probably an individual just like me, flipping through gear looking for his new #1 guitar or amp or whatever.

I started doing this around 5-6 years ago online; up until then it was all local trades and deals with friends. I was lucky enough to have a good online bro (Ridner shoutout!) that taught me the value of good pics, fantastic packing and quick shipping with regards to online sales and I haven't had a complaint yet in these areas. I have regularly sold guitars ranging from $500 to $3k with never an issue.

But in the last 5 months or so, I've been asked to take a return back on two guitars and two amps, one of which was too loud for the guy's house. I get that 120 watt tube amps are loud, but if it shows in working condition and nothing is broken, I consider it being too loud your problem, not mine, regardless of the reason. I also consider you not liking the instrument you bought online your problem, as there was literally NO way for either you or me to know if you'd like it, which is pretty much why you bought it in the first place, right?

I just want this trend noticed, because it's seriously hacking me off. I'm not a store, I don't have a buyer's remorse policy, and I don't think that anyone selling used gear should. This is not just me it's happening to either; I've noticed this on several forums, I've seen several people banned outright from those forums and I've seen people booted out of FB gear trading groups once their activities become known. I'm not going to be naming any names, so no one need get twitchy.

In light of this, I'm not going to be selling gear online anymore. I'll still buy whatever, but the fact that there are people out there that are in complete control of my feedback based on a 'policy' that shouldn't exist in the first place is pissing me off no end. I don't know if it's eBay or Amazon or whatever affecting the 'online generation' and making people believe that you can return anything to anyone for no reason whatsoever, but I'm not having it any more.

Any thoughts on this matter? If this becomes a common place occurrence, will you still be selling gear online? We have some seriously high dollar guitars that go through here daily....if you're regularly selling axes that go above 2k, how is this going to affect the way you do business here? Is bad iTrader feedback because you 'don't allow returns' going to cause you anxiety or anything?

Hit the poll and let me know your thoughts on this. Maybe I'm way off base here and this is something that we're all going to have to get used to. Be honest on it; if you think you should be allowed to return used gear, let me know and why.

To be clear, this isn't about any one person or any one deal....I've just noticed this happening with increasing regularity and want to know people's thoughts on it.

 

[mnemonic]

I'm not a store, I don't have a buyer's remorse policy, and I don't think that anyone selling used gear should.

This is exactly it. You aren't a store and neither am I.

I've bought things I later didn't want or didn't turn out to really be what I was looking for but I never would consider asking for my money back. Thats the risk in buying something used from a random other person, and thats why its cheaper than buying from a store.

If someone wants a return policy, warranty, etc... then buy new or buy from the used section of a store.


Maybe its something to do with paypal and ebay terms these days. I admit I haven't used either in quite some time now, but back when I did use it, it was caveat emptor. From what I've seen online, it seems like both ebay and paypal have swung strongly in favor of the buyer in all matters, even when they're wrong.

 

[aesthyrian]

Returns, for items bought used from a private seller?

WHAT?!

Unless the item was falsely advertized then I always assumed sold "as is".

If you want a return policy, buy new or buy used from guitar center or something.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[Clinic]

LOL! You have got to be kidding me. Privately sold used gear is; as is, no refunds, no returns.

The only time I'd accept taking something back is if for some reason I screwed up and said something worked and it didn't.

 

[Steinmetzify]

Returns, for items bought used from a private seller?

WHAT?!

Dude, I'm serious. This is happening...it's happened to me four times over the last few months, it's happening right now with a guy that says the amp is too loud for him to play, and it's happening on another forum that with a guy that says he 'doesn't like the way the amp sounds' and wants his $ back. Dude bought a Marshall Plexi and 'can't get a good tone out of it'.

I'm just wondering if this is random occurrences or the start of a new trend...

 

[SpaceDock]

I have had this happen to me as well. I sold my Mayones on eBay and two weeks later the guy says "I thought I could afford this but I have too many bills, can I return it" and then actually filled out the ebay return crap!!!!! Seriously, WTF kids!

 

[ridner]

Whoever thinks returning an item purchased online from a private seller has not taken a course in Ridner's School of Online Buying and Trading.

If the item is as described and shows up in tact, this is the buyer's problem - not the seller!

EYEHATEPEOPLE

 

[MoshJosh]

Aside from the item not being as described/damaged/broken I don't think asking for a return is appropriate.

I've definitly done trades and bought guitars that, from first strum, I knew they weren't for me. But that's what happens when you can't try before you buy, that's the risk you take. If you buy used and wait for good deals (I'm still not very good at the waiting part) you can usually sell it for what you payed for it and try again. . .

 

[Noxon]

I'm with everyone else it seems. If there was fraud, unmentioned damage, issues not disclosed, whatever, sure , be decent and take it back. Otherwise, tough shit. I have done a couple deals here and everyone has been great. I thought it was an unspoken "rule" of the classifieds here that--under most circumstances--all sales and trades were final once a deal was reached and payment was sent/received.

I think we have all had varying degrees of buyers and sellers remorse, but thus is the used gear trade when you can't jam on something before trying it. Unless you bought a $99 Starcaster for $500 you can probably resell whatever you didn't bond with fairly easily at a minimal loss.

Since when has a guitar player ever said that an amp is too loud?

 

[Grief]

I think as a customer taking advantage of the wonderful world of the internet, you kind of assume the risk of something not being to your liking, and it is incumbent on you to do your research. If you are buying something new or used at huge% discount then the least you can do is get off your ars3 and make sure the thing you are buying is the thing that you want. I wouldn't dream of sending something back because I didn't like it, unless it was a shop that had a really explicit policy to that effect.

Although to balance that there is a stupid imo thing here in the states where sellers won't pay return shipping on goods that arrive faulty or damaged. I have an instrument in transit right now where if the shop haven't checked it or packed it properly or if it gets damaged in the mail I have to bear the costs of sending it back. In Europe that kind of practice is illegal, not least because they can potentially also claim on their shipping insurance for the damage and shipping costs.
I even had a seller once send me a different guitar from the one that I had bought and try and require me to pay the costs to return it to them.

 

[TheWarAgainstTime]

The only return I've ever dealt with was for a buffer I bought that was damaged during shipping. The seller was really cool about it and offered me a full refund since he knew the builder and could get it fixed for free. I just had to pay return shipping and all was well

Buying or selling, I think I'd only deal with returns if something was received in not-as-described condition. Like if I bought a "like-new" guitar and it showed up without a bridge or a fretboard, you know? Obvious fraud and whatnot.

EDIT: I've definitely been one to immediately flip something I didn't bond with after the ordeal with that buffer, I bought another one from a different seller. I owned that pedal for less than 4 hours. Got it in the mail, hooked it up, played around with it, A/B'd with and without it, put it back up on the classifieds it came from, had a buyer message me within 10 minutes, sold it for the same price I got it for, packaged it up, and shipped it off. I had a Green Rhino for the better part of two weeks before reselling it, too just not my thing.

 

[fantasyl]

Aside from the item not being as described/damaged/broken I don't think asking for a return is appropriate.
[..]

Amen!

 

[Discoqueen]

I usually say "no returns," just to cover my bases. That's really whack, though. ESPECIALLY guys who wheel n deal. I don't have that money after two weeks! I have a new guitar! I think I definitely agree with the idea that, when you buy used, it's your problem. You loose money, but that's what happens. It happens to everyone. I could see how ebay and PayPal could complicate things, for sure.

Thanks for the thread, man. I'll be much more weary of online selling. Imaginary rep for you!

Edit: I hope this doesn't become a trend. If it got too out of hand, I could see it causing trouble for the forum. I like the FS section; I'd hate to see it have to go.

 

[Steinmetzify]

I usually say "no returns," just to cover my bases. That's really whack, though. ESPECIALLY guys who wheel n deal. I don't have that money after two weeks! I have a new guitar! I think I definitely agree with the idea that, when you buy used, it's your problem. You loose money, but that's what happens. It happens to everyone. I could see how ebay and PayPal could complicate things, for sure.

Thanks for the thread, man. I'll be much more weary of online selling. Imaginary rep for you!

Edit: I hope this doesn't become a trend. If it got too out of hand, I could see it causing trouble for the forum. I like the FS section; I'd hate to see it have to go.

Thanks for the rep, dude.

And you're welcome for the thread...I was just wondering if this was something that anyone else has experienced at all. Nobody has pushed it on me, but the fact that people are asking just blew my mind. Nothing wrong with the stuff I sold as I offed it in the same condition I received it in and I had no complaints when I got it.

I wouldn't like to see it become a trend either...I like being able to try new stuff out and see if it's something I'll dig, but the anxiety this has caused me isn't worth it. Not selling anymore, which means I'm going to be a lot pickier about what I pick up in the future. I've always done my homework but I'll be doing a lot more from now on.

I think if it starts becoming a trend the people that are doing it need to get outed so everybody knows to stay away from them. It's crap.

 

[RV350ALSCYTHE]

Do they expect you to cover return shipping on top of a refund as well?

 

[mnemonic]

Given the polarisation of this thread I think it's unlikely that someone will post that they think private sellers ought to take returns. I would certainly like to hear an argument for this, as I certainly can't think of one.

 

[Shask]

It seems like all of the policies screw the seller any more. Waiting for money, easy reversals by Paypal, feedback systems which cannot be disputed, etc...

Personally, I think if you bought it, you own it. Unless it was broken then you should have done your homework before buying something. If you wanted a return policy, you should have bought it from Guitar Center Used online (One of the MAJOR benefits to using that system!).

I have not really had many issues with this, but I also haven't sold anything in probably 2 years. I tried to get my "inventory" out of the system 3-5 years ago. I knew it was going to get worse and worse, and I didnt want to be sitting on a pile of gear. I still have some, but nothing like I did 5 years ago. I am not new to this either. I was buying and selling back in 1998 when you HAD to use Money Orders and trust

 

[RV350ALSCYTHE]

Given the polarisation of this thread I think it's unlikely that someone will post that they think private sellers ought to take returns. I would certainly like to hear an argument for this, as I certainly can't think of one.

My only argument for the return option is in the case where the seller did not disclose damage or issues with the product...but people will still take this and run with it.

"I don't like the guitar, good thing I can get a refund because seller didn't disclose some minor dent or loose output jack."

I've only dealt with one buyer trying to get a refund out of me and it was a private local sale. I typed up a receipt clearing stating "as is" for a used Peavey Mark8? Bass head and 2x8+1x15 Cab. The buyer and father both played the amp for over an hour. Signed the documents. Paid me and took it home. He then plugged it into 240V outlet for a jam sesson and blew one of the Head's transformers and came back trying to get a refund.

It's amazing how far people try to go with refunds.
Buyer is satisfied, takes it home, breaks it, and it is somehow my fault.

 

[rifftrauma]

I actually have returned 1 Ebay purchase, a *Mint* 2001 Les Paul that turned out to be anything but mint... but I'm 99% on the side of "I bought it, I'll sell it.

 

[cwhitey2]

I have never returned or complained about a used purchase, let alone try to get my money back because I didn't like said purchase. Disclaimers need to be in for sale adds now