Reverb increasing their selling fee (3.5% to 5%)

[Spaced Out Ace]

+1

Not excited about the increase, but not the end of the world. Reverb is still the best choice if you don't want to deal with scammers and other kinds of dishonesty.

I've still dealt with a dishonest scammer on there, and Reverb allowed it to go on.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

I wonder why they didn't mention boosting stock price with their reasons for the increase?

So they can seem like totally "people over profits" types while having money signs in their eyes. Greedy bastards. I think they'll see a hit to their bottom dollar that 1.5% won't cover, and they'll respond with hiking it further, only to kill their platform. They've already done this, by the way, by making their site slow as fuck, sluggish to load and maneuver, and the layout of search results (too many bumps strewn throughout and makes it confusing) as well as listings being confusing as well. Such a nuisance to navigate. They needed to do ONE THING (cost of shipping in search results), and did a bunch of shit, but definitely not that.

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

Maybe my local area just sucks ass but selling locally and getting an even respectable offer on anything is basically impossible. And personally I've never had to use the bump feature to get stuff sold
This is basically where I'm at. Like I understand how the math breaks out to a 40% hike but I feel like that's sort of looking at it in the worst way possible. Not that it's even a good thing IMO. Regardless, I think we can all agree that the e-mail is complete suck ass and definitely being pissed on and telling me it's rain status

Yeah, that email was really something. "Growing together," lol; by taking more money from me. Sounds real 'together-ey'.

And I'm not saying local is the end-all answer; you definitely still have to play a similar game, but at least in my experience, I just traded "hello i would like to purchase your item" spam texts for tons of "I like your Prestige, will you trade it for my Squier, $20, and a pack of strings?" offers. Just kind of feels like a wash, and the former doesn't cost me anything, soooo....

They're gunna piss some people off for sure and some folks may actually leave the platform but at the end of the day I'm sure this is just gunna make them more money. Can't say Reverb doesn't make things easy, and people love easy, so I don't think they're going anywhere anytime soon. Damn if I don't feel like a cat that just got pet backwards though.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

We should just call it what the fuck it is: Redistribution of wealth for the corporation. Real people over profits types those guys. "Growing together" -- Screw pissing on me and calling it rain; that was a crock of bullshit and calling it beef stew.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

Yeah, that email was really something. "Growing together," lol; by taking more money from me. Sounds real 'together-ey'.

And I'm not saying local is the end-all answer; you definitely still have to play a similar game, but at least in my experience, I just traded "hello i would like to purchase your item" spam texts for tons of "I like your Prestige, will you trade it for my Squier, $20, and a pack of strings?" offers. Just kind of feels like a wash, and the former doesn't cost me anything, soooo....

They're gunna piss some people off for sure and some folks may actually leave the platform but at the end of the day I'm sure this is just gunna make them more money. Can't say Reverb doesn't make things easy, and people love easy, so I don't think they're going anywhere anytime soon. Damn if I don't feel like a cat that just got pet backwards though.

Economy going down + less transactions on the platform + buyers/sellers leaving = less money for them.

 

[Seabeast2000]

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

#PeopleOverProfits #SmallBusiness #EtsyTotallyCares

 

[dmlinger]

The businessman in me agrees with this move, and I'll still use Reverb because of the site traffic and seller protection. The discussion went something like this:

Reverb Manager #1: Our fee has been 3.5% for years and we have additional costs from growth. Can we raise our fee so we can grow? Because, you know, we are a for-profit business and we need to grow.

Reverb Manager #2: Sure we can raise it, but we were established as a cost effective alternative to eBay. Won't we loose customers that get upset by a fee hike?

Reverb Manager #1: Well if we raise it from 3.5% to 5%, that will be a 42% increase in revenue if volume stays the same, which is huge for us but small for out customers. Do you think we will loose 42% of our sales volume if we raise the fee?

Reverb Manager #2: No, no way 42% of people stop using us over a measly 1.5% increase. We will see a slight volume drop, but the upside is far greater.

Reverb Manager #1: Then raise the fee. #profit

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

IF -- IF -- volume stays the same, which, I have a hard time believing that it will, especially with our economy attempting not to nosedive into the side of a building and crash at free fall speed.

 

[shiyu]

I'm as disappointed as anyone else, but I think y'all are missing the point. Look at the wording they used in the email. "Your business", "your sales". It's a really business-centric message. As for the supposed benefits: SEO? Digital marketing, really? Those are the sorts of things that are supposed to appeal to business owners, music stores, companies who handle large volumes of sales. Reverb is not trying to reassure your ordinary guitarist who is offloading some of their extra gear, they're trying to reassure the music stores that drive their profits. Now, I don't have any numbers on hand, so I could be totally talking out of my ass here, but I'm willing to bet that Reverb gets most of their revenue from these stores who make a large-scale operation of selling gear, not individual musicians who sell a guitar or two every few months. Losing these smaller sellers doesn't matter as much to Reverb, because the 40% increase in selling fees will certainly offset that. Meanwhile, stores who sell on Reverb won't leave because that's where the customers are, and they'll even continue to eat the extra fee because charging a few percent higher just makes them look unattractive to consumers. So, as irritating as this change is, I doubt it will spell the end of Reverb or anything. Stores will get used to it, individual sellers will get used to it or move on, and we'll all just grumble and keep going.

 

[Mattykoda]

@Spaced Out Ace you need a hug man? It’s just business.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

@Spaced Out Ace you need a hug man? It’s just business.

Fuck off.

 

[Emperoff]

There are already some Reverb stores closing up as a big "fuck you". I know Elysian Pickups did, Chondro Guitars and some others. Randall @ Chondro was phoned by a Reverb manager after announcing it publicly, and he basically told him to fuck off (as usual ).

I don't know how many dealers/people will drop but I'm sure it will still be profitable for Reverb.

I'll just continue doing what I've always done. Selling at different prices on each site overcompensating fees. If the buyer wants the services and protection those platforms offer I'm not fucking paying for them.

 

[protest]

The businessman in me agrees with this move, and I'll still use Reverb because of the site traffic and seller protection. The discussion went something like this:

Reverb Manager #1: Our fee has been 3.5% for years and we have additional costs from growth. Can we raise our fee so we can grow? Because, you know, we are a for-profit business and we need to grow.

Reverb Manager #2: Sure we can raise it, but we were established as a cost effective alternative to eBay. Won't we loose customers that get upset by a fee hike?

Reverb Manager #1: Well if we raise it from 3.5% to 5%, that will be a 42% increase in revenue if volume stays the same, which is huge for us but small for out customers. Do you think we will loose 42% of our sales volume if we raise the fee?

Reverb Manager #2: No, no way 42% of people stop using us over a measly 1.5% increase. We will see a slight volume drop, but the upside is far greater.

Reverb Manager #1: Then raise the fee. #profit

The problem is it's a percentage based fee, not a flat dollar amount. So the conversation was completely about price elasticity and not covering additional costs. Especially considering the fact that 1) Gear sales have been through the roof this year and 2) One of their largest overhead items, their call center, is basically gone as far as I can tell

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

I'm as disappointed as anyone else, but I think y'all are missing the point. Look at the wording they used in the email. "Your business", "your sales". It's a really business-centric message. As for the supposed benefits: SEO? Digital marketing, really? Those are the sorts of things that are supposed to appeal to business owners, music stores, companies who handle large volumes of sales. Reverb is not trying to reassure your ordinary guitarist who is offloading some of their extra gear, they're trying to reassure the music stores that drive their profits. Now, I don't have any numbers on hand, so I could be totally talking out of my ass here, but I'm willing to bet that Reverb gets most of their revenue from these stores who make a large-scale operation of selling gear, not individual musicians who sell a guitar or two every few months. Losing these smaller sellers doesn't matter as much to Reverb, because the 40% increase in selling fees will certainly offset that. Meanwhile, stores who sell on Reverb won't leave because that's where the customers are, and they'll even continue to eat the extra fee because charging a few percent higher just makes them look unattractive to consumers. So, as irritating as this change is, I doubt it will spell the end of Reverb or anything. Stores will get used to it, individual sellers will get used to it or move on, and we'll all just grumble and keep going.

There's a couple of issues with this take, though.

1. SEO, marketing, etc. is SEO for Reverb, digital marketing for Reverb; none of that stuff really benefits the larger stores because all it's doing is shilling the platform as a whole. Sure, any increase in total user pool is a net benefit for all sellers, but that's minuscule. If we're talking about large vendors, they do their own marketing already. Which is why that email was such a clown show.
   • There's also the most important question- "How many people that buy/sell gear really DON'T already know about Reverb?"
2. Which leads into point #2- the larger vendors typically only use Reverb as one of multiple storefronts. What's to stop them from listing the same guitar, for $50 less, on a different storefront? Then what's to stop me from going there?
3. I, as well as almost (if not) all of you, use Reverb to buy used instruments from other people and B-Stocks. So, if most of the site is now just large e-tailers selling new instruments, why in the hell would I continue to go there? If I want to buy my shiny new RG5320, why in god's name would I go to Reverb instead of GuitarCenter or my local Ibanez dealer? Especially since some shops up their prices on 3rd party storefronts to offset costs.
   • What's funny is that I know that I personally have discovered new vendors through Reverb, then just Google'd their website and purchased the product direct for a lower price.

I like to assume that high level executives for multimillion dollar companies have a clue, so I'm sure this was a very well-researched decision and I'm sure there's tons of datapoints I'm not privy to that point to this being a great idea; and I'm also certain that they aren't going to lose money on this, especially in the long term. I just don't like it.

 

[Emperoff]

What's funny is that I know that I personally have discovered new vendors through Reverb, then just Google'd their website and purchased the product direct for a lower price.

I saved 400$ and 700$ on two guitars contacting the vendors of Reverb listings. Paid with PayPal, no issues.

 

[Ataraxia2320]

As a buyer I loved the user protection. I would hate it as a seller, but buyers were essentially always in the right according to reverb (I mean you know its bad when trogly is getting burned). You never had to worry.

I would never sell there though, not before, and certainly not now with the rise in fees.

 

[shiyu]

Ordacleaphobia, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this change benefits music stores much either. I actually agree with every single one of your points, from a consumer point of view (though perhaps not from a seller one). I'm just saying that's the angle the email tries to take

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

I saved 400$ and 700$ on two guitars contacting the vendors of Reverb listings. Paid with PayPal, no issues.

Careful, they will close accounts for doing that. So again, this only works for big sellers.

 

[Emperoff]

Careful, they will close accounts for doing that. So again, this only works for big sellers.

And how exactly can they close my account for sending an email to, say, Music Zoo, about a certain listing of theirs?

But yeah, not a thing for private sales for obvious reasons.