Rings of saturn's lucas mann's guitar ability described by recentlydeparted guitarist

[isomorphic]

Anyone else at the edge of their seat waiting for Lucas' response?
I really hope he programs Smoke On the Water into guitar pro and then posts a playthrough.

Seems he did

https://www.facebook.com/lucas.mann.750?fref=ts :

Im probably never going to respond to that bs directly. Im just gonna go out on our next tour with a new guitarist and shred the new songs live for everyone. I already am above it.

People are going to believe what they want despite what I say. There isnt any point. Im tired of "proving" myself over and over for the sheep of the internet.

So pathetic. This dude is severely delusional.

 

[asher]

^ but I thought he <3s haters?

Dudes, writing music above your level and using other means to record it is totally cool to make what you want to make.

Just don't try to take it live if you can't play it (or it would be seriously compromised to make easier) and be honest and don't bullshit about it or your abilities.

It's all about the music, so keep it that way. People are gonna take note of the posturing, some mud will be slung, and pretty soon we're all knee deep in monkey shit and desperately wanting to take a shower.

 

[Slunk Dragon]

Here's another good angle of this issue.

Marc Okubo, the guitarist in Veil of Maya, would always write songs he couldn't play at first. But he'd then go and practice them over and over until he COULD play them. I watched these guys live, he more than nails all the parts of songs he's played in the studio. And Veil of Maya has some pretty technical shit too.

Just some 2 cents to go with this.


Also totally loving the shitstorm. Glad a lot of you guys get what the actual issue is!

 

[Icecold]

This band really needs a PR firm.

 

[AngstRiddenDreams]

This band really needs a PR firm.

Someone contact Mehtab (Stealthtastic), I'm pretty sure his business is making people look good online.

 

[simonXsludge]

The whole drama surrounding that band/guy is really entertaining. To be fair, his crowdfunding campaign was ridiculous and I remember some stupid statement from him where he claimed that the reaction to his ridiculous fvcking attempt was "what's wrong with the Metal scene" and how it has to change to, I guess, learn to appreciate his midi crap as real deal guitar playing worth $20k. The I <3 Haters hat was the icing on the cake, though. What a loser, hahaha...

How old is that guy even?

 

[cronux]

Oh well. I look forward to the HAARP Machine - Rings of Saturn comeback tour.

 

[Ed_Ibanez_Shred]

Touche, but you could have just as easily ignored the thread and not responded, especially if the music sucks so bad and the discussion is so petty, lol.

Yeah I know I could have ignored it, but I do like discussing music (hence the existence of this forum) and I find it especially entertaining when people get so elitist over the way in which other people choose to make music.

You proved my point man. Whats the point of a music discussion forum if we can't discuss musical topics that interest us? Then someone comes in and tries saying people shouldn't have talked about it? My logic was if he thinks we should ignore this topic, then i think he should ignore the thread. But people shouldn't ignore the topic, which in turn means he shouldn't have to ignore the thread. And he didn't. That is the point. Yeah, we've been watching this unfold for months, like hell we weren't going to have a laugh and a chat about it.

I wasn't criticising the fact that you chose to discuss RoS, I just don't like the specific argument, i.e., Lucas' ability to play his material. You shouldn't ignore the topic of music you don't like, you should just accept that they have chosen to make their music this way

I think "I can't play the music that I write for my technical metal band but I sure do pretend like I can! ps. give me $20k for a guitar pro album" is a pretty legitimate reason.

I deliberately chose to leave the 20k fiasco out of this, because it was clearly a bad move on his part I don't think anyone would side with Lucas on that, it was fairly dumb

 

[jonajon91]

I think the ratings on RateYourMusic speak loudly enough to show how much of a shit anyone should give about this.

 

[redstone]

True facts about RoS. (I don't like tech-death and don't care about the band)

- There are no sped up and guitar pro parts. It's purposefully made to sound inhuman though it's trickier than actually superhard to play. Mostly tapping below the Ron Thal level and tremolo-picking, without the note attack. Vibrato sounds like whammy bar with precise yet easy rhythmic patterns.

- So far, both guitarists played their parts live. Of course they couldn't remove the pick attacks, although the axe-fx might help, or sampling notes individually like they did on the album etc.

- The band never pretended to be legit when recording the albums. They never hide the heavy processing, quite the opposite. Don't hate them because it wasn't explained on the album cover.

- Lucas is an asshole for letting Joel learn all parts in vain.

- Joel is an asshole for pretending that Lucas is a fraud.

- The angry RoS hater is an asshole because he can't tell what's legit from what is not and can't stand that humiliation. Haters are vastly responsible for this situation. Putting a lot of pressure on the band, making Lucas sound like he's not a proficient guitarist/composer and giving all the band a terrible reputation, no wonder why Joel freaked out. Actually both freaked out in opposite ways I guess but who would not ? Just leave Britney alone.

 

[Darknut]

Yeah I know I could have ignored it, but I do like discussing music (hence the existence of this forum) and I find it especially entertaining when people get so elitist over the way in which other people choose to make music.



I wasn't criticising the fact that you chose to discuss RoS, I just don't like the specific argument, i.e., Lucas' ability to play his material. You shouldn't ignore the topic of music you don't like, you should just accept that they have chosen to make their music this way



I deliberately chose to leave the 20k fiasco out of this, because it was clearly a bad move on his part I don't think anyone would side with Lucas on that, it was fairly dumb

Lol. Of course you left out the 20k part. Because that is largely connected to my "specific argument" which no, is not solely about his recording methods. If you read my posts you'd see that I mention the fact that he lied about it, and asked for 20k in the process. I already proved my point in that you responded to the thread just like everyone else, because the topic is worth a chat. I don't understand your angle man. It isn't about being elitist over his recording methods, as others have said, if he was truthful about it, it wouldn't be an issue. it's about lying and denying, and asking for 20k. No standards man. maybe you should accept that people are gonna talk about this, you talked about it, and that lying to fans and asking them for 20k is in fact ....ed up.

 

[-One-]

True facts about RoS. (I don't like tech-death and don't care about the band)

- There are no sped up and guitar pro parts. It's purposefully made to sound inhuman though it's trickier than actually superhard to play. Mostly tapping below the Ron Thal level and tremolo-picking, without the note attack. Vibrato sounds like whammy bar with precise yet easy rhythmic patterns.

- So far, both guitarists played their parts live. Of course they couldn't remove the pick attacks, although the axe-fx might help, or sampling notes individually like they did on the album etc.

- The band never pretended to be legit when recording the albums. They never hide the heavy processing, quite the opposite. Don't hate them because it wasn't explained on the album cover.

- Lucas is an asshole for letting Joel learn all parts in vain.

- Joel is an asshole for pretending that Lucas is a fraud.

- The angry RoS hater is an asshole because he can't tell what's legit from what is not and can't stand that humiliation. Haters are vastly responsible for this situation. Putting a lot of pressure on the band, making Lucas sound like he's not a proficient guitarist/composer and giving all the band a terrible reputation, no wonder why Joel freaked out. Actually both freaked out in opposite ways I guess but who would not ? Just leave Britney alone.

I was with you, up until the end of this post. But let's be real here. "Haters" are not responsible for this situation. Lucas was always the less proficient guitarist compared to Joel (Joel's live performance was always tighter and cleaner than Lucas', and Lucas couldn't be bothered to play half of his own solos, so Joel played them). On top of that, Lucas couldn't even be bothered to learn how to play songs from their new album? The ....ing album has already been recorded and released. People who aren't in the band know Lucas' material better than he does at this point. That's the epitome of unprofessional, and frankly, I'm a fan of the band, and in a band myself, and I still think that Lucas choosing not to learn new songs out of what is basically laziness is utterly reprehensible.

 

[Emperor Guillotine]

 

[Emperor Guillotine]

Here's another good angle of this issue.

Marc Okubo, the guitarist in Veil of Maya, would always write songs he couldn't play at first. But he'd then go and practice them over and over until he COULD play them. I watched these guys live, he more than nails all the parts of songs he's played in the studio. And Veil of Maya has some pretty technical shit too.

I'm the same way. Angel Vivaldi is the same way. Mark Okubo is the same way. A lot of us write stuff (before or during the recording process) that we can't play but then we go back and get it spot-on through practice.

 

[GoldDragon]

I just watched some of this bands videos and Lucas' solo song. Don't really know how to process this. Its obviously unplayable, mostly special effects that maybe they could do with delays or running the guitar through an arpeggiator.

The vocals don't even pretend to be intelligible, they are run through so much distortion and pitch correction, its more of a special effect. Are there actual lyrics or did they use NI's SKream VSTi? I guess it doesn't matter.

Then watching Lucas solo song, he's using a sound that is completely without dynamics. It doesnt matter whether he picks or taps it all sounds the same. Is this where tone is headed, is this what the AXE FX really gives us? Do people not want to hear the attack and decay of a note? His picking technique is pretty bad. I doubt he could play half of this with a real amp.

That said, I recognize that it is very creative, so I give all the other stuff a pass, but it is more "magic trick" than it is music. Even if you saw them pull it off live, I don't think you would be left with the impression that they were good musicians and they have the performance skills of your typical bedroom wanker. I'd rather watch Nicki Minaj than this. I think they miss the point of technical metal, to demonstrate amazing chops and wow the audience. Lucas' claim that his bandmate did not want to learn his parts is a bit hypocritical when his stuff is mostly illusory. I blame Guitar Hero for this mess.

 

[KFW]

This to me just sounds like the guy has an unorthodox method of recording/composing, and procrastinated on learning the new songs he wrote. I think it's been corroborated enough that he CAN play Rings of Saturn songs live--people are making it sound like he just picked up the guitar yesterday.

All the other stuff sounds like personal matters that aren't really anyone's business. Honestly I think Lucas's response was mature...just ignore it and get a new guitarist that will play when they're ready.

And I don't see anything wrong with what he allegedly said along the lines of "I don't care about guitar, don't want to get better, just want to write songs and get the band as big as possible." Sounds like he's just happy with his skill level and isn't particularly passionate about guitar anymore.

So I don't really see the big deal. There are live videos all over Youtube of them playing their stuff and sounding just fine. Of course it's not as surgically perfect as the album, but it's so incredibly obvious that they edit their albums like that on purpose, I see no reason for them to put some kind of disclaimer on their sound.

I find it odd how passionately people hate this band/guitarist. I'm not a fan, and didn't even know about them until this thread. It just seems like people hate this guy on a personal level based on very weak evidence/observations. Doesn't seem like any more of a crime than the hundreds of bands that quantize their drums in the studio, record one riff at a time, or autotune vocals.

 

[Ajb667]

I got bored

 

[redstone]

I just watched some of this bands videos and Lucas' solo song. Don't really know how to process this. Its obviously unplayable

Please tab those licks you know so well.

"Haters" are not responsible for this situation. Lucas was always the less proficient guitarist compared to Joel (Joel's live performance was always tighter and cleaner than Lucas', and Lucas couldn't be bothered to play half of his own solos, so Joel played them). On top of that, Lucas couldn't even be bothered to learn how to play songs from their new album? The ....ing album has already been recorded and released. People who aren't in the band know Lucas' material better than he does at this point. That's the epitome of unprofessional, and frankly, I'm a fan of the band, and in a band myself, and I still think that Lucas choosing not to learn new songs out of what is basically laziness is utterly reprehensible.

Do you honestly think that someone who worked that hard just became suddenly lazy ? Haters broke him. Stage fright, fear of failure, this psychological bullying works like a self-fullfilling prophecy. It's hard to progress when people only acknowledge your failures.

 

[isomorphic]

This to me just sounds like the guy has an unorthodox method of recording/composing, and procrastinated on learning the new songs he wrote. I think it's been corroborated enough that he CAN play Rings of Saturn songs live--people are making it sound like he just picked up the guitar yesterday.
.

I actually think the production on the new album is excellent, if they were strictly a studio band then a chunk of this drama would never happen.

The fact is Lucas is an immature person, who has denied EVERYTHING every single time, unable to admit fault, or just simply lie about things.

And he hasn't played any songs from the new album yet, which is the main issue here. Read Joel's wall of text please.

All the other stuff sounds like personal matters that aren't really anyone's business. Honestly I think Lucas's response was mature...just ignore it and get a new guitarist that will play when they're ready.

Lol yeah, completely dodging everything, calling what Joel said "bs" (in other words, instead of being an adult and owning up to anything, he's in essence calling Joel a liar), and calling anyone who believes Joel a "sheep".

Real mature. It's on par with his classic "I <3 Haters" schtick.

And I don't see anything wrong with what he allegedly said along the lines of "I don't care about guitar, don't want to get better, just want to write songs and get the band as big as possible." Sounds like he's just happy with his skill level and isn't particularly passionate about guitar anymore.

The point is he can't play his new material live, and other members can. He wants to get the band bigger but doesn't want to put in the effort in actually playing his songs (entitled attitude).

Instead he just told his fans actual lies about not playing new material because of the label. Again, I suggest you read the whole Joel statement, and not just quote mine.

So I don't really see the big deal. There are live videos all over Youtube of them playing their stuff and sounding just fine. Of course it's not as surgically perfect as the album, but it's so incredibly obvious that they edit their albums like that on purpose, I see no reason for them to put some kind of disclaimer on their sound.

The big deal is this dude is a completely entitled brat who can't admit any fault and has rubbed a large portion of the tech community the wrong way because of his attitude and immaturity.

I think most reasonable people would concede the fact that Lucas can play the first two albums (he did write them himself...) but he can't play this new album as of now, and can't admit fault

I find it odd how passionately people hate this band/guitarist. I'm not a fan, and didn't even know about them until this thread. It just seems like people hate this guy on a personal level based on very weak evidence/observations. Doesn't seem like any more of a crime than the hundreds of bands that quantize their drums in the studio, record one riff at a time, or autotune vocals

The majority of the hatred is directed at Lucas for reasons I've already detailed.

If you think Joel's accounts, as well the accounts of other past band members, other bands who have toured with ROS, and fans is "very weak evidence" then I'm out of words.

 

[Shimme]

I wouldn't care that it's faked if he didn't pretend that it was real