Scale length issues h-308

[smethubd]

Hey gang,

This has probably been answered before, but I'm having issues with my ltd h-308 as far as string tension and and intonation goes. It has the 25.5 scale length and I tune standard seven with a drop E. I've tried a bunch of different strings for the low E, but everything is just too floppy for me. I think I'm up to a 75 or 80. Any advice that you can offer would be great!

 

[MetalBuddah]

when all else fails you could tune from B-a

 

[Anthonok]

More bigger

 

[Nag]

at that scale length you'll need at LEAST a 100 gauge. 25.5" scale isn't meant to be played quite that low... you'd honestly be better off getting a longer scale guitar like an RG8 or something

EDIT : and even with a 100 gauge, with a 25.5" scale, intonation is bound to be effed up.

 

[GunpointMetal]

definitely do-able....try something like an 84-90 for that low E. A lot of people around here like ridiculous amounts of string tension, but I think a 100 would be almost unplayable, especially past the 7th or 8th fret. I had a 25.5" six string I put in drop E with an 84 and it was about as loose as my 58 in Ab. the only real problem will be getting the bridge saddle back far enough to intonate...might need a short saddle or a trip to the grinder!

 

[Philligan]

definitely do-able....try something like an 84-90 for that low E. A lot of people around here like ridiculous amounts of string tension, but I think a 100 would be almost unplayable, especially past the 7th or 8th fret. I had a 25.5" six string I put in drop E with an 84 and it was about as loose as my 58 in Ab. the only real problem will be getting the bridge saddle back far enough to intonate...might need a short saddle or a trip to the grinder!

This

I use a 74 for low E on my 27" Ibanez. If you've tried that and it's not enough, try a D'Addario 80. If that's still not enough, go with Circle K. I'd start around an 86 with them, but make sure the nut is filed out wide enough to fit a string that size, or it'll sound like shit.

The thing I find that helps me the most is making sure the other strings are balanced to the low string. A loose low string is hard to play, but I find that if all the strings are relatively loose, I subconsciously adjust my playing and the low string starts to work.

Are you using 10s on the high end? If so, go down to 9s. Before you spend a lot on an order through Circle K, I'd try a D'Addario 9-42 set with a 56 and 80 - that should be about as balanced as big brand strings will get, and the low E should feel a lot better by comparison.

Another thing I find helps - thin picks! Heavy picks push the string around too much and it gets really boomy. Lighter picks keep the string from flopping around so much and add a lot of snap. For 6 string (which I basically never play anymore haha) I used 1mm picks, usually Ultex Sharps. For 8 string, I use Dunlop T3s, and bounce around between a .73, .60, and .50. I prefer the feel of the .73, especially for a .074 string in F#, but for E the .60 and .50 sound better. I usually use the .60 for feel, and for recording I'll usually go down to the .50 so the strings aren't getting pushed sharp.

 

[indreku]

25,5 is hard for E but doable - I prefer some tension in my strings so my schecter has a 90 string for Drop E, got it from a Fender bass IV set from my local store. Works fine for me, but this is fully on your own preference.

 

[Rev2010]

I will never understand why any well respected company would use a 25.5" scale on an 8-string. At least 26.5" is better manageable and better yet 27" does well for most tunings. Of course the lower you go the longer scale you need for proper tension and intonation, but even then you start getting into the need for fanned frets to keep proper tuning across the fretboard.


Rev.

 

[xCaptainx]

I use DR 10-75 for 26.5" scale, it feels bang on. Maybe try the 11-80 DR set for 25.5? Though you might have to go bigger than that, apparently Tosin uses DR 10-80 for Drop E on his 27" signature.

I haven't looked into that much, just judging by DR promotional material in the website, so I could easily be mistaken.

 

[Philligan]

I use DR 10-75 for 26.5" scale, it feels bang on. Maybe try the 11-80 DR set for 25.5? Though you might have to go bigger than that, apparently Tosin uses DR 10-80 for Drop E on his 27" signature.

I haven't looked into that much, just judging by DR promotional material in the website, so I could easily be mistaken.

I'm pretty sure those are way off I remember reading an Alexi Laiho interview or gear tour type thing, and he said he used custom 11-56 sets. I'd see DR ads in Musician's Friend that said he used their standard 11 sets, and the 11 pack would change from issue to issue.

I'm not saying Tosin/Javier don't use those strings, but I wouldn't be surprised if DR made what they thought was a good 8 string set and the guys just put their name behind it, and continued using custom sets. In their Premier Guitar gear tour from a couple months ago, they both say they're using 9-74s. I can't remember if they were D'Addarios or DRs.

The 11-80 set seems weird to me. The middle strings are the same as a 10-46 set, only with heavier plain strings and an 80 instead of 75.

 

[brutalwizard]

My band Plays In drop A with a low E. My Ltd my guitarist uses has an .85 for the low e string and it sounds awesome.

https://soundcloud.com/nicholasgardner/forsythia-sass

 

[smethubd]

Cool cool,
Thank you for all of the answers on this. I've been looking for an answer for a while and I just couldn't figure it out. My regular guitar tech kept bumping up the gauge and drilling the peg, but I think I'll just try something a little bigger and meant for an 8 versus a bass string or something similar.

The other option was to buy a new guitar or trade this one in, but that's also not really an option due to a lack of funds. I was thinking an Iron 8 from Ibanez or an RG8.

 

[DrJazz]

Is it doable to get a "tight" low E on a 25.5'' scale? Absolutely. You just need to bump up the gauge to around .90 or .100 depending on your taste/string type. There are some good string tension calculators out there, you might want to give them a look.

Will it sound good however? That's a much trickier question. It all depends on your needs and your ears. I stronly encourage you that give this thread (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/10064-string-gauges-inharmonicity.html) a good read, for starters. Saying it'll sound "good" or "bad" depends on what you'll be playing and your tolerance to inharmonicity, dull sounding strings and mud, and nobody can make this call for you. Everybody has a "sweet spot" in terms of gauge vs scale length compromise, and it's really up to you to discover where it is. On my end, for instance, I'm satisfied with the tone I get from a 28.625'' low E. For some people, the 26.5'' on a Schecter is all fine and dandy. I'm sure some guys are perfectly happy with a 25.5'' low E as well.

If you're not yet sure about the limitations on your tone that you are capable of dealing with, I highly suggest that you try a .90 or a .100. If you are still unhappy with your tone, then I suggest either trying a B-a tuning or, if you absolutely need "teh chugz", try to trade it for a longer scale. If you can't deal with the 25.5'' low E, no string gauge will help you there, and the only way to know if you can manage it is to crank up the string gauge until you get an appropriate tension.

Hope this helped.

 

[Philligan]

Cool cool,
Thank you for all of the answers on this. I've been looking for an answer for a while and I just couldn't figure it out. My regular guitar tech kept bumping up the gauge and drilling the peg, but I think I'll just try something a little bigger and meant for an 8 versus a bass string or something similar.

The other option was to buy a new guitar or trade this one in, but that's also not really an option due to a lack of funds. I was thinking an Iron 8 from Ibanez or an RG8.

I'd go RG8 if you do that. Spending $899+ on an Iron Label 8 puts you too close to a Carvin or used 2228. I own an RG8 and it plays great

 

[sevenstringj]

I once tuned my old Carvin 727C to B-standard/drop-E and used an 80-something bass string iirc. D'addario makes an 80. If you need to go beyond that, try a Circle K 82; they have a little more tension than other brands at the same gauge/tuning. If you don't care for that, try La Bella (Build A Custom HRS Electric Guitar Set). If all that fails, get a new guitar.

 

[7stringDemon]

I'd just sell it and get something else.
25.5" scale is nearly useless for an 8 string. Too short for a low F# and too long for a high A.

 

[leonardo7]

That low on a 25.5" can sound OK until you jam with a drummer and bassist. Then you can say goodbye to all hopes for cutting through

 

[House74]

I just bought an H-208 and will be testing out a .80 bass string on it this week. Right now it is definitely flubby. hard to believe the 1" difference between that and my schecter Damien Elite 8 makes that much difference but it does. I will say though when I went to GC last night to pick up the string, They finally had an RG8 and i got to try it and honestly, it was flubby too. even more so than my 26.5 schecter (has the stock ernie ball .10-.74 set). I was not impressed with the build either, the H-208 seems like a much more solid guitar for that price range. doesnt feel cheap to me like the RG8 did.

 

[Winspear]

Yeah it's a challenge...To reach what is considered standard string tension you'd need around 90 yes (a lot of people think otherwise because the ordinary bottom string in 8 string sets is way looser than the 6 string - I draw my 'standard' by 6 string 10-46.
The short of it I've read by almost everyone who has tried them (including myself) is that Circle K strings will sound clearer and intonate better than any other brand in this gauge vs. length battle. Plus the fact they are heavier per size so you can go about .005 lighter than other brands for the same tension.
Try put together a set with them! Personally it would still nowhere near cut it for me (even a 86 F# at 25.5 with CKs is too muddy for my liking) but you can certainly achieve another semitone or two than you would with other strings, tonally speaking. I draw the line at G# for that length personally

 

[House74]

I went to GC and got a new f# string for the H-208 I mentioned, and tested it out last night. Since of course no one other than the interwebz sells actual 8 string guitar strings, I went with an EB .80 bass string. It definitely fixed the issue of flubbiness. If you like a nice boomy chug on that bottom string, go that route. if not though, might want to look into the circle K sets. The only thing I will warn though is A. you WILL have to file out the nut a little, and B. you will also have to open up the tuning peg hole some, especially if you go higher than .80, that string only fit through up to the part where it expands out to the .80 part. So if you dont open it up some (like I did not) you will have to put the leader through up to the fat part then just carefully wind it down the peg then kind of back up over itself