scale length to accommodate high a for custom 7 string?

[memu]

Hello! I'm planning on making a fanned fret 7 string tuned from E2 to A4. I plan to use an 8 gauge string for the high a, but am worried about snapping it trying to perform a whole step bend. How short on the treble side would you think would keep me clear of snapping on the high A? I was thinking a 22"-23.5" multiscale, but I'm hoping someone with more experience might be able help.

 

[nightsprinter]

stringtensioncalculator.com shows an .008 would be fine in that scale length I think. It would be like 18.5lbs of tension if u used an .008 for A4 on a Fender scale instrument.

D'addario makes a .007

https://www.stringsbymail.com/daddario-nyxl-high-carbon-plain-steel-guitar-string-007-17328.html

 

[odibrom]

22" is a pretty small scale length, generic for kids guitars. I say to go to a shop that has Ibanez MiKro guitars (22.2") and test if the hold the A4 tuned high string, which should be by factory a 0.010 gauge, as listed in Ibanez web site...

I imagine that you you go up to 23"/23.5" you could be safe with .009s tuned up to A4, which could give you the 25" or 25.5" for the E2 string without a crazy aggressive fan.

So, point is, test some kids guitars to see how far they go? Then decide on the path to go with your design.

...

Check this thread out: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/tuning-with-a-high-a.260364/. I think there are more threads on this subject...

Paging @bostjan and @Winspear here for their insights on the subject...

 

[vark]

Hello! I'm planning on making a fanned fret 7 string tuned from E2 to A4. I plan to use an 8 gauge string for the high a, but am worried about snapping it trying to perform a whole step bend. How short on the treble side would you think would keep me clear of snapping on the high A? I was thinking a 22"-23.5" multiscale, but I'm hoping someone with more experience might be able help.

For high A i use the NYXL .007 on 24 inch scale and its a little tight but doesnt snap. I would say for your 7 go 22.5 -24 or 23 - 24.5(assuming you want to retain 1.5 inch fan)

Alternatively a 24 or 23 inch straight scale would work well too

 

[memu]

22" is a pretty small scale length, generic for kids guitars. I say to go to a shop that has Ibanez MiKro guitars (22.2") and test if the hold the A4 tuned high string, which should be by factory a 0.010 gauge, as listed in Ibanez web site...

I imagine that you you go up to 23"/23.5" you could be safe with .009s tuned up to A4, which could give you the 25" or 25.5" for the E2 string without a crazy aggressive fan.

So, point is, test some kids guitars to see how far they go? Then decide on the path to go with your design.

...

Check this thread out: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/tuning-with-a-high-a.260364/. I think there are more threads on this subject...

Paging @bostjan and @Winspear here for their insights on the subject...

Well 25.5" tuned to high G with .008 like on electric 12 strings is roughly the same as 22.5" tuned to with a high A.
I tried tuning a 25.5" with a .008 and got it to G#, but I wouldn't be confident that high.

I unfortunately don't have any shops around me because I live in the middle of nowhere. I'm hoping that a 22" scale will give me enough of a buffer so I don't have to worry about snapping it.

 

[odibrom]

Well 25.5" tuned to high G with .008 like on electric 12 strings is roughly the same as 22.5" tuned to with a high A.
I tried tuning a 25.5" with a .008 and got it to G#, but I wouldn't be confident that high.

I unfortunately don't have any shops around me because I live in the middle of nowhere. I'm hoping that a 22" scale will give me enough of a buffer so I don't have to worry about snapping it.

I had an Ibanez Mikro once, but didn't venture into that kind of crazyness. It's a 22.2" scale length guitar designed for kids, which is why I had it, but my kids didn't follow, so I sold it. I'd suggest you then to buy one (they're at about 200€ I think) just to try those possibilities and return it a few days later. You'll only pay the shipping for a test bed on scale lengths... obviously that there are other scale lengths to test, so if you find a guitar with the desired measurements, you can buy it and return it to test scale lenghts...

This can became an expensive test, but may also clear a lot of doubts for your project.

 

[JimboLodisC]

shorter the better but your guess of 22-23" might be a good starting point

oddly enough Ibanez had this made for the anniversary celebration: https://www.ibanez.com/usa/special/50th_Anniversary/jpcs4.html

 

[NickK-UK]

Hello! I'm planning on making a fanned fret 7 string tuned from E2 to A4. I plan to use an 8 gauge string for the high a, but am worried about snapping it trying to perform a whole step bend. How short on the treble side would you think would keep me clear of snapping on the high A? I was thinking a 22"-23.5" multiscale, but I'm hoping someone with more experience might be able help.

Just playing catch up (my brain). So if you're using the you're tuning (23.5") E2-A2-D3-G3-B4-E4-A4 (22").

Two points you need to consider:
a) neck load
b) string tension

Both you'll get an answer out of stringtensioncalculator.com.

Given I've run my strat at 25.5" A string IIRC that runs super light weight (guage 7 I think) and have tuned that up before. I don't think you'll have an issue. Only thing is bends but given you're dropping over two inches off that, its tension is likely to be low enough to cope with bends. It will be super flexy on the bends and I would consider not using large frets (as the bend on fretting may cause an issue with note tuning).

You may be limited a little on the pickup width/locations as scale size drops, they get closer together. Also 7 string pickups may be tuned to lower frequencies but in the whole I shouldn't think that would be an issue.

 

[bostjan]

Hello! I'm planning on making a fanned fret 7 string tuned from E2 to A4. I plan to use an 8 gauge string for the high a, but am worried about snapping it trying to perform a whole step bend. How short on the treble side would you think would keep me clear of snapping on the high A? I was thinking a 22"-23.5" multiscale, but I'm hoping someone with more experience might be able help.

I'm a little late to the party.

But I've been doing the high A thing for a long time. I use a .007" at 600 mm scale. If you do a lot of whole step bends, it will break. If you only do them rarely, you will have more options. A shorter scale means less stress on the string when you bend.

It's also super important what sort of bridge and headstock configuration you use. Anything with a sharp angle will introduce a failure point. My main guitar is strings-through, but was designed to have a subtler angle through the bridge. I've had much better luck with 25.5" guitars with top loading bridges. But you also have to keep your saddle clean. Any burs will make your life difficult. Same goes for the headstock: decent quality tuners, a properly cut nut (graphtec preferable), and straighter string pull will all help.

Also how hard do you pick? It seems like a stupid question, but if you pick like a gorilla on a sugar high, none of this matters. If you pick like Yngwie- gentle, yet purposeful, you can get away with a lot... but, if you lend the guitar to Harambe, he will break the string the second he touches it.

With a proper set up, you CAN do A4 at 25.5". If you don't put any other thought into hardware, you might have to go down as short as 19.25". If you are breaking strings at less than 20", though, I'd professionally recommend that you calm yourself down and tell us how the guitar hurt you.

But I truly can't say what the perfect scale length for you will be. If you have a 25.5" guitar that you can experiment with- start with that. If you get up to G4 and can pick the way you like to pick and bend the way you like to bend, 23" will most likely be fine for A4, since it's the same tension on the string. If you can get the 25.5" to G# without problems, you should be able to be happy with 24". But, even at 24", if you do whole step bends often, that string is very likely to break in a week's time of regular daily playing. If you rarely do whole step bends, it might last forever. But again, how rough your picking is on the strings is possibly the second most important factor in all of this, and that's an unknown for strangers on the internet.

 

[memu]

I'm a little late to the party.

But I've been doing the high A thing for a long time. I use a .007" at 600 mm scale. If you do a lot of whole step bends, it will break. If you only do them rarely, you will have more options. A shorter scale means less stress on the string when you bend.

It's also super important what sort of bridge and headstock configuration you use. Anything with a sharp angle will introduce a failure point. My main guitar is strings-through, but was designed to have a subtler angle through the bridge. I've had much better luck with 25.5" guitars with top loading bridges. But you also have to keep your saddle clean. Any burs will make your life difficult. Same goes for the headstock: decent quality tuners, a properly cut nut (graphtec preferable), and straighter string pull will all help.

Also how hard do you pick? It seems like a stupid question, but if you pick like a gorilla on a sugar high, none of this matters. If you pick like Yngwie- gentle, yet purposeful, you can get away with a lot... but, if you lend the guitar to Harambe, he will break the string the second he touches it.

With a proper set up, you CAN do A4 at 25.5". If you don't put any other thought into hardware, you might have to go down as short as 19.25". If you are breaking strings at less than 20", though, I'd professionally recommend that you calm yourself down and tell us how the guitar hurt you.

But I truly can't say what the perfect scale length for you will be. If you have a 25.5" guitar that you can experiment with- start with that. If you get up to G4 and can pick the way you like to pick and bend the way you like to bend, 23" will most likely be fine for A4, since it's the same tension on the string. If you can get the 25.5" to G# without problems, you should be able to be happy with 24". But, even at 24", if you do whole step bends often, that string is very likely to break in a week's time of regular daily playing. If you rarely do whole step bends, it might last forever. But again, how rough your picking is on the strings is possibly the second most important factor in all of this, and that's an unknown for strangers on the internet.

I want to use a 8 gauge because from my (minimal) testing, It seemed that an 8 was stronger at tension than a 7.
Although this was on a 25.5" and both didn't feel playable.

I planned on doing a neck-thru, top loading bridge (gotoh), inline headstock.
Typically like a string through as well, but I was worried about break angle

I pick pretty light because I prefer using 9-42 sets.
I'm actually considering using 21.5-23" recently so I can get that .008 at the same tension as a .009 in E standard.
Just concerned about how the low E will sound at 23"

 

[odibrom]

(...)
Just concerned about how the low E will sound at 23"

Test an Ibanez Mikro tuned to standard E4 to E2. It's doable... you may need a bigger string though.