Serious Left Hand Fatigue

[JustinRhoads1980]

Hey SSO so I have a question in regards to my technique that I have been having an issue with quite a while.

So about a few weeks ago I started learning how to play hammer smashed face by cannibal corpse and I notice that when I am playing through the song that my left only is so fatigued.

I was curious as to what could be causing it? I am playing on a guitar with a 25.5" scale length with 10-52s, could the lower strings be causing me to get tense and cause fatigue in my left hand? I start off the song good in playing consistent, but after my hand starts to fatigue it begins to hurt and I end up getting a lil sloppy on playing the song and sometimes I miss the mark, pause and return and so on and so forth.

Here is the areas where I end up getting fatigued. I hope this might help!

 

[prlgmnr]

Don't grip so hard.

Do something to work the opposite motion like spreading your fingers and thumb out with an elastic band around (not a super tight one or anything), or you can sort of "flick" all your fingers and thumb out against a gentle resistance, e.g. your trousers, a table top, something



that explains it a lot better than text

Try a couple of drastically different guitar positions and see if any make it easier on your left hand

 

[odibrom]

Please post a pic of your regular guitar playing position... it is most likely related to the wrist angle. You must be playing with your hand tendons way too stretched, meaning a very sharp wrist angle... and this is due to having the guitar neck way too low... for our needs...

Also, are you going for the thumb over technique? Don't.

Most immediate thing to try is to raise the guitar's neck. It's easy and may answer your problem almost instantly...

... says the internet without any visual confirmation...

... if that symptom gets persistent, do go see a doctor...

 

[JustinRhoads1980]

Don't grip so hard.

Do something to work the opposite motion like spreading your fingers and thumb out with an elastic band around (not a super tight one or anything), or you can sort of "flick" all your fingers and thumb out against a gentle resistance, e.g. your trousers, a table top, something



that explains it a lot better than text

Try a couple of drastically different guitar positions and see if any make it easier on your left hand

I will give this video a look once I get home.

Please post a pic of your regular guitar playing position... it is most likely related to the wrist angle. You must be playing with your hand tendons way too stretched, meaning a very sharp wrist angle... and this is due to having the guitar neck way too low... for our needs...

Also, are you going for the thumb over technique? Don't.

Most immediate thing to try is to raise the guitar's neck. It's easy and may answer your problem almost instantly...

... says the internet without any visual confirmation...

... if that symptom gets persistent, do go see a doctor...

I will post a pic and a vid of me playing part of it to show you some of the stuff I am doing. I do not think I am doing the thumb over, but I might be, so I am not so sure

 

[JustinRhoads1980]

Please post a pic of your regular guitar playing position... it is most likely related to the wrist angle. You must be playing with your hand tendons way too stretched, meaning a very sharp wrist angle... and this is due to having the guitar neck way too low... for our needs...

Also, are you going for the thumb over technique? Don't.

Most immediate thing to try is to raise the guitar's neck. It's easy and may answer your problem almost instantly...

... says the internet without any visual confirmation...

... if that symptom gets persistent, do go see a doctor...

- Here is a link to me playing through the whole song

Here is some pics of different angles of how my hand rests or angled or whatever on my guitar.

 

[chopeth]

wow, those fingers are thick, dude!!

 

[JustinRhoads1980]

wow, those fingers are thick, dude!!

Is this a good thing or a bad thing??? Lmao.


Hows the technique looking at least? Anything I can correct to prevent the feeling like my left hand wasn't just smashed by a hammer?

 

[odibrom]

By the looks of it it doesn't seams to be anything terribly wrong with your technique, however the Hand-to-Wrist angle looks a bit sharp (?). Warming up the wrist is always good.

When playing up and down the neck, use your elbow more, don't just leave it near your chest. The keyword is ADAPT your playing to your physical needs.

It doesn't harms too raise the neck a bit, so it will give you a more relaxed position for your fretting hand.

Fast forward, do go see a specialized doctor...

 

[Metropolis]

Your wrist angle is little bit too sharp and you should use more wrist movement than just fingers in those bends. Also side of your thumb is leaning more to neck than back of it, so you could try to straighten the thumb little bit and have just back of it more against the neck. It may be just your thumb position if using fingers like that feels natural. There is definetly some unneccesary tension going on, and hand position needs some relaxation generally. Do you always use strap like that when sitting? To me it looks like you could ditch the strap because neck is moving quite a bit in that position and just lean guitar on to your lap.

 

[JustinRhoads1980]

By the looks of it it doesn't seams to be anything terribly wrong with your technique, however the Hand-to-Wrist angle looks a bit sharp (?). Warming up the wrist is always good.

When playing up and down the neck, use your elbow more, don't just leave it near your chest. The keyword is ADAPT your playing to your physical needs.

It doesn't harms too raise the neck a bit, so it will give you a more relaxed position for your fretting hand.

Fast forward, do go see a specialized doctor...

I feel this strain happens whenever I am doing fast powerchord sections. Same thing happens with Mouth of War, but it is not as extreme in pain as HSF

 

[JustinRhoads1980]

Your wrist angle is little bit too sharp and you should use more wrist movement than just fingers in those bends. Also side of your thumb is leaning more to neck than back of it, so you could try to straighten the thumb little bit and have just back of it more against the neck. It may be just your thumb position if using fingers like that feels natural. There is definetly some unneccesary tension going on, and hand position needs some relaxation generally. Do you always use strap like that when sitting? To me it looks like you could ditch the strap because neck is moving quite a bit in that position and just lean guitar on to your lap.

I will try playing today and ditching the strap to see if that ha any effect.

Questions:

How do I use more wrist movement instead of fingers? Can you put it into a better example at all?

I think if I straightened out my thumb on the back of the neck a bit more I would fuck my wrist up.

 

[odibrom]

It also looks like you project the neck/headstock way too much from your chest. Probably due to you're using too much strength with your picking arm against the guitar... does it makes any sense? It's not very clear due to the light... can you post a wider movie to see the whole package? So we can see both hands working at the same time?

 

[Descent]

I'd say do hand stretch exercises and warm up properly, then you should be fine.

You also might want to add some shrimp and shellfish to your diet to lubricate those joints better.

It might not be a bad idea to go one gauge lower strings and see how you feel. Is your guitar professionally setup?

 

[Metropolis]

I will try playing today and ditching the strap to see if that ha any effect.

Questions:

How do I use more wrist movement instead of fingers? Can you put it into a better example at all?

I think if I straightened out my thumb on the back of the neck a bit more I would fuck my wrist up.

It means using more circular motion of the wrist than just motion of the fingers. But it's quite hard to apply when playing on first frets of fretboard.

 

[JustinRhoads1980]

It also looks like you project the neck/headstock way too much from your chest. Probably due to you're using too much strength with your picking arm against the guitar... does it makes any sense? It's not very clear due to the light... can you post a wider movie to see the whole package? So we can see both hands working at the same time?

I will be able to upload a whole video sometime this weekend when I get the chance. I get what you are saying, but I think part of that has to do with the fact that during the video I changed my positions and such so you guys could see somewhat of a different angle and such. It is probably a bit over-dramatized than what I might actually do, but I will keep an eye on it when I practice today.

I'd say do hand stretch exercises and warm up properly, then you should be fine.

You also might want to add some shrimp and shellfish to your diet to lubricate those joints better.

It might not be a bad idea to go one gauge lower strings and see how you feel. Is your guitar professionally setup?

You have any recommendations for some hand exercises at all?

I will try to include some shrimp since I am actually starting a whole diet and weight lifting routine tomorrow as a matter of fact so I will make sure I can fit it in accordingly with my macros and such.

It not has been "professionally" set up by a luthier, but I have set it up and the intonation is spot on, there is a good gap of relief, and there is no fret issues except for on the first few frets which I plan to get taken care of in the future.

It means using more circular motion of the wrist than just motion of the fingers. But it's quite hard to apply when playing on first frets of fretboard.

I can see how this would be used in areas like when I have to do the pinch harmonics, but everything else I do not know how to incorporate it. I will have to look into this further to be honest and see if this might be beneficiary to me. Thank you for the video, cleared up a bit what you were saying earlier

 

[Descent]

This video is pretty good


You can try glucosamine (organic) supplements on top of eating shellfish, etc. to lubricate the joints.

This is the one I take:
https://www.naturesway.com/Product-Catalog/Glucosamine-HCl-90-Caps

Our other guitarist seemed to complain from same issues, I got him on a wild shrimp diet (once a week) and glucosamine and he is feeling better.

I also find that oysters help me, especially raw oysters. I also chase the wife around the house which is an extra benefit

I've also read quite a few articles, and this is an old school method pre WWII but worked quite a bit for joint and ligament pain: head cheese, pate, tripe (menudo).

https://www.piast.com/products/country-head-cheese

That has high cholesterol though so use in moderation. It also lubricates the joints.


Also - don't be afraid to go down a string size.

It is also quite possible that this neck just isn't for you. I had a Kramer V that I had that problem on - my issue is that it was so comfortable and easy to play that after my hand started locking up I realized I didn't move it much and stayed in one palm position that just moved up and down the neck. I sold that guitar.

From what I see on the picture, looks like your neck is pretty flat, so semi baseball type of neck might be better for you as your thumb seems to be riding a bit too much in the back, I think. So maybe a Gibson LP neck might be more comfortable or at least one that is slightly thicker. That might interfere with shred domination though

 

[primitiverebelworld]

Hi! Judgeing by your symptoms and the photos it is clearly obvious that you mean muscle fatique(?). Like burning sensation and buildup of lactic acid in these musclegroups you have highlighted and hindered performance as a result. Right? Not joint pain which often sharp nerve pain, paralyzing and gets stronger the more you grip the neck? Assuming the first muscle related case - ligament supplements are not going to help you(but one could have them nonetheless just in case). I have had this when I started out and even year later - your hand just needs to get stronger gradually. It is a fundamental thing that you plan to start working out. I have done bodyweight for years and have monster grip(pullups dude). Can play hours straight until eardeath but no handstrain. Also as mentioned above your thumb is in a position where it is really sensitive if extra pressure is applied. All gripping strain is not distributed equally and thumbmuscle gets it all. Specially if you play so intricate parts said song requires. Work out, stretch, try thumb slightly on the edge of the neck and try some other necks too!

 

[Konfyouzd]

^ Like this guy I was suspecting this to be a hand strength / stamina issue.

When I haven't played in a long time and I try to jump into playing something complex that I used to play when I practiced more regularly, my left hand will get fatigued very quickly because it's just not conditioned to perform the way I'm asking it to at the time.

As another poster also said... Gripping the neck too hard can cause unnecessary fatigue too. If you're playing something that pushes you a little bit, it's easy to start gripping the neck a bit too hard without noticing. Some people even clamp down on the pick kind of hard when they start to push it.

 

[watson503]

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From these pics and the way your thumb is bent, I'd suggest keeping your thumb in a more natural position against the neck - you don't want to develop hand problems down the road and your body is telling you something with the pain you are experiencing.

 

[IGC]

@JustinRhoads1980 , congrats on learning HSF, good work . It's difficult / impossible to focus on ergonomics while trying to play technical stuff. I like good a warm up routine - start slow with focus and concentration on tecnique and accuracy, then build speed as you get used/ develop a feel for what it is you'r attempting to play. Most guitar players get tendinitis of the hand and arm, extremist types are no exception I'm sure. Drink a lot of water, hydration helps with muscle cramping.