Should I Keep This Teacher? Advice? Thanks.

[namewithheld]

Hello. This is long. So if you are patient and want to be helpful, read on. If not, no problem.

I just started lessons on Saturday. I am an intermediate player with terrible chops. I am a hack who tries to play faster than he can. You know the type. I am also intermediate on theory. I know how chords are constructed. I know how modes are constructed. And I am pretty close to knowing all the mode shapes, three-notes-per-string on my six- and my seven-strings. I am also an old man (48), who just wants to shred because that is what I love. I am not planning to take it on the road.

So...I go to lesson with a half page of notes about what I want to focus on: technique, accuracy, timing, cleanliness, rhythm, alternate picking, sweeping etc. I want to work on technique with someone who can give immediate feedback and tell me how to improve. I can get "lessons" about stuff on youtube. He he skims about half of my note, and asks to hear me play. He determines correctly that I suck, and, although I know my scales okay, I can't play in time (which is one major reason why I am there!) and that I spend a lot of time looking for where I am going (because I have just taught myself the modes across the fretboard, three-notes-per, and I am still digesting.)

So...he basically throws away my notes and tasks me with learning the five positions of the major scale and the major pentatonic scale. And here I am today playing them over and over as sloppily as ever.

Basically, he is teaching me what he wants to (and probably always) teaches, and not what I came to learn. However, he is right I suck, and maybe he has diagnosed what I should learn better than I have.

Any thoughts or advice are greatly appreciated. You guys (and gals?) ....in rule

Thanks.

 

[Maniacal]

Sounds like he is not for you, find another teacher.

 

[namewithheld]

Sounds like he is not for you, find another teacher.

I think I might be better off with Riff Training Level 1. Just subscribed to your youtube channel. #$%ing amazing.

 

[VBCheeseGrater]

Personally i'd give him a shot, see if you see results, then decide. The 5 positions are actually pretty helpful for getting out the "box" type playing and piecing it all together. Also, the last "first lesson" i took, that's what i was given.

Also, timing has got to be the single most important thing i look for in bandmates, You're right, its one of those thing some folks just are innately good at. I'm not sure how easily it can be taught (really, i just don't know), but i would work on that first and foremost by yourself and with the teacher. Break out the metronome!! Even myself, who i consider to have very good timing, could heed my own advice more.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

technique, accuracy, timing, cleanliness, rhythm, alternate picking, sweeping etc.

If a student gave me this list, I'd throw it away also.

Let me explain, most of what you're having trouble with is technique based and time based. Those are two very common issues with folks who are mostly self taught and haven't really been in a band situation. There isn't really a way to tech just those things, it's all part of developing your skills at the same pace.

Remember focusing on small things is what turned you into a player who can play, just not very well. Trust me, I know, that was me my first few years into playing. I was so obsessed with learning this technique or that technique that I wound up being a terrible guitarist that just happened to be able to sweep pick and shred randomly, and not always cleanly.

First things first, practice with a drum machine. Even if it's a boring beat and even if it's just the basic scale positions. That's going to help you with timing.

Technique wise, you're just going to have to work up from a super slow tempo. It sucks, but that's what it takes some times.

How often are you going to be getting lessons from this guy? Have you talked to his other students? Have you seen him play?

If after one month of lessons you're not getting anywhere, move on to a different teacher. If the guy is professional he'll probably recommend some other teachers you might make more progress with.

 

[MrPepperoniNipples]

Sorry, but have a little humility, god damn.
One lesson and you're already calling him out?
Give it some time!

The best way to play fast and clean is to nail your fundamentals and learning your scales is just part of that.
You'd be surprised how immense a help the 5 positions of the major scale and pentatonics are in developing technique, especially alternate picking (which you mentioned you wanted to learn)

If you just want "immediate feedback" you can just come to this or other forums to get some help, but that will never come close to what a 1-on-1 teacher can do for you

 

[Osorio]

I say stick with it as well... I was a very proficient player in my youth, but most of it has gone to hell since I quit playing for 4 years. Once I decided to get back, I still had some chops, but lost a lot of technique. Went to a teacher with, also, a list of stuff I wanted to work with. Even though my concerns where pretty much the exact opposite of yours, the procedure was the same. He got me playing some pentatonics.

I was skeptical at first, but it really helped. You can't play fast if you are not good at playing slowly... I think he is just limiting your options so you can make sure you are playing correctly... The fact that you have already seen that you are playin the sloppy is what you need to improve, not the amount of notes.

I understand you have no "higher goal" with this, but the truth is that shred is a pretty high-demand technical way of playing. If you are content with playing sloppy, you can quit, if you are not, you need to improve. You improve by practicing. So, even if you want to just "hobby it out", shredding is still complex and takes effort, so you will have to practice accordingly.

 

[namewithheld]

Thanks everybody. Wish I could figure out how to "thank" you so it shows on your profile. I am going weekly and will stick it out for a month, as MaxOfMetal suggests, to see how it goes. I think I have plenty of humility - I said I sucked like ten times.

 

[wespaul]

Maybe I'm missing something here (if you gave the whole story), but why would your teacher throw out your list and get you to practice something else entirely? Did he explain why he gave you what he gave you? I mean, this isn't the Karate Kid where the underlying goal needs to be kept a secret.

When you're teaching, you have to have clear and concise goals and explain why you're having your students do what they're doing. If he left you in the dark, then it's up to you to ask questions. You obviously came in there with specific areas you wanted to work on, so why not just ask him how this will benefit what you want to become better at?

Never feel too shy to ask questions. Ask tons of questions. That's what teachers are there for. People here have already advised to work with a metronome/drum machine, so why didn't he recommend doing that? Even if it's to play major scales with? Or did he? I don't know, man. It sounds like you need to have a serious one-on-one conversation with your teacher, especially if you're feeling cheated out of what you're wanting to learn. After all, it's your money.

 

[namewithheld]

Maybe I'm missing something here (if you gave the whole story), but why would your teacher throw out your list and get you to practice something else entirely? Did he explain why he gave you what he gave you? I mean, this isn't the Karate Kid where the underlying goal needs to be kept a secret.
.

I understood that he thought I didn't know the fretboard well enough (probably true), and this is how he teaches it. As I said above, I was looking for "shapes" to play.

I still think you're right, though. I want him to consider my goals, too. He could probably have given me some direction on how to practice the scales (he also had me write them on neck paper, which is fine) to work toward my goals of better technique. Thanks.

 

[Hammer]

I kinda was in your situation, only a fair bit worse. My teacher at least has a sort of game plan for every student. Basic technique, chords, major and minor scales, modes, tapping and sweeps, in that order, introducing the metronome at the same time with scales. When I started with him I was already playing for about an year and a half I think and I sort of had some chops, but I was playing them badly. Now, my teacher was a real funny dude when teaching. Even though he was doing other stuff during the lesson he was always listening and looking when something was off. He has a unique way to motivate his students by calling them some funny names, his favorite one being the Romanian word for hammer (hence the username). Even though this seems insulting or something it's actually quite funny when you are there and it sort of works and hey, I didn't feel offended for one second, because it's a joke. I followed his advice as well as I could and I've improved my technique immensely, even though I'm still sort of bad. I should practice more .

Now, don't be so quick to judge a teacher. The first lesson is always a bit less fun than the next ones and it doesn't really show what the teacher is made of. Also, when teaching skills the first lesson is always an evaluation, especially since I suppose you are taking 1 on 1 lessons. The teacher must know where you are at in order to tailor his approach in a way that it suits you best. The fact that you already know some stuff means that you are very likely to fly through some lessons. Don't worry about timing. He's most certainly going to show you stuff to improve timing. Usually the teacher needs to be sure that you have the basic techniques down before showing you how to play with a metronome. You will most likely start slow, at like 50 or 60 bpm, but if you practice you will be able to use it at higher and higher speeds. You will start getting feedback, otherwise the teacher is useless. You can learn to play by yourself, but it's best to have a teacher at least for basics. You might watch a video on YouTube and then play what you saw and it might sound the same, but you might place your fingers badly and you won't notice because of the point of view intrinsic to playing guitar. That's when a second pair of trained eyes comes in handy.

Oh, and another tip: you don't need more than one or two lessons per week. First learn how to walk, then how to run. It takes time for the specific motions required to sink in, regardless of how much you are practicing. Connections inside the brain take time to be made. It's very likely that one year from now your skills will be much better than now if you study properly .

Edit: Almost forgot. You can never know enough stuff related to playing. Even basic chord progressions help. I mean I almost never play on acoustic and I don't care much for the basic folk chord changes and stuff, but they really helped my technique. Knowing the things that you may not care too much about make you a much more versatile player.

 

[namewithheld]

Now, my teacher was a real funny dude when teaching. Even though he was doing other stuff during the lesson he was always listening and looking when something was off. He has a unique way to motivate his students by calling them some funny names, his favorite one being the Romanian word for hammer (hence the username).

Don't worry. I get this. I am a huge fan of the original Jerky Boys tapes. I always call my friends "weirdo" or "knucklehead" or "cheesecake."

Thanks.

 

[Splinterhead]

I've been teaching for a long time. I teach kids as young as 8 and adults 60+ years old. I've always tried to figure out what the student's goals are. Actually coming in with specifics, I think, would have been pretty handy. A lot of new students aren't really sure about their goals.

The idea of having/achieving goals is important and is something I always strive for as a teacher and a player. Though the path to the "goal" may end up being a little convoluted at least you know what you want to achieve which in itself is half the battle. Its the teacher's job to get you to that goal. I've never been one to press my own agenda on my students. As a teacher you have to start out by teaching the basic musical vocabulary of the guitar and then decide from there which direction to pursue. The direction chosen will dictate the skills necessary for the instructor to teach to that student.

I have a 5th grade autistic girl as a student and when she first started she came in with her old teacher's guitar method books. She hated it. It was boring for her and hard to connect to on an emotional level. I found out she loves Sonic the Hedgehog video games and I found a bunch of music that's in those games and she completely changed. She became animated, interested and really enjoyed playing.

I have pre-shred students who really want to focus on their technique and theory. So its all about specific exercises, mechanics and control. In addition phrasing and melodic ideas are introduced so they don't sound like they're running exercises during their improv. I have students who love writing so we talk about composition, arrangement, harmony, melody and why some songs work better than others. I have a 62 year old who is just beginning to play because he's been playing air guitar for the past 40 years. He just wants to sit on his porch with a beer and play Neil Young songs for his wife.

What it comes down to is being a teacher who is able to adapt to a students needs/goals. Yes of course they have to learn the basics. You have to learn the alphabet before you can write a sentences. When it comes time to pick a genre they are interested in you have to ask yourself if you're able to teach it effectively. For me I would not feel comfortable teaching country or classical. So if the student felt passionate about them I'd pass them off to another instructor who would be qualified.

Another thing that's important is communication. Explaining why you are teaching a specific concept is just as important as the concept itself.

 

[Hollowway]

Yeah, I'd say it's too hard to judge just from that one lesson. He could be a bad teacher that's just on autopilot, or he could have correctly diagnosed that you need to work on some fundamentals first, and then may come back to you in a few months and say, "Now, about that list..." So I'd say hang in there for now, or ask him what HIS goals are for you, in terms of how he teaches. But, I agree that you cannot progress as a player if you don't have the fundamentals down. A few years ago I decided that I was never going to pick faster if I kept with my circular picking (picking by moving my finger joints) so for a few months I forced myself to relearn to pick from the wrist. At first I was frustratingly slow, but soon I passed where I had been for years with the inefficient method. So it could be a frustrating issue for you in the short term, but better with time.

@Splinterhead - you sound like an awesome teacher. Guitar or math or English, or whatever, if most teachers approached it like you the world would be a better (and more enjoyable!) place.

 

[Solodini]

As others above have said he may have a plan for you. If he does then it'll be helpful to have that explained better, won't it? Ask him what his plan for you is and explain that you want to know so the two of you can see eye to eye, be on the same page and be working together, so you're not second guessing or focussing on the wrong aspect of the work he sets you. If he sees that you care and want to make his life easier that may endear you to him and improve channels of communication.

 

[80H]

Accuracy is discipline. It is telling your fingers that they have to go somewhere, even though they don't want to, and they have to learn to do it all the time until that's where they want to go. You must be the one that decides where your fingers go. They are made to learn. They will catch on just so long as you are diligent with where they need to go. It's ok to spend 2 straight hours on accuracy as long as you don't hurt or overexert yourself. Do it at a relaxed speed with no metronome -- something that feels comfortable for you -- and then reconstruct that action in the slowest motion you can process. You can reprogram your behaviors this way, and the more that your behaviors "prefer" accuracy, the more you will begin to trigger the natural & biological mechanisms of muscular and nervous adaptation (lack of awareness+lack of skill -> awareness+lack of skill -> awareness+adjusting skills -> awareness+skill)


Technique is arbitrary. Seriously. That's why it's so f*cking difficult. It is all based on you and how the biophysics of your muscles and bones and tendons match up with the physics of the guitar. If the distance of your pinky is 2mm longer than mine, everything can change. Natural shape of your elbow, width of your shoulders...etc. Two MM or more? F*ck, need to adjust. There is no perfect technique, there is only your personal movement towards the technique that is the most sustainable and effective for you personally.

F*ck timing. It's stupid to put yourself into a box smaller than natural fluency. Listen to a metronome while doing various tasks at various speeds with various accents. Listen to an accent on the 7 @160bpm for a few minutes while you read the news or plan out your day or brush up on theory. The problem with timing is that most lessons you will find will put you into the "4/4" box, which is like going to Disneyland and spending the whole day in the same sh*tty gift shop. You want a natural sense of timing - that is what creates the general confidence that allows you to flow from the musical mind to the fingers and into the strings. It is a transfer of an idea to a physical motion and you just can't can't can't can't CAN'T worry about a traveling signal from your brain to your finger while wondering if you are 1/16th of a second off of where you were supposed to be. It's just plain stupid. Careful with this one buddy.


Cleanliness also comes from discipline. It's more or less the wife of accuracy. I personally believe that cleanliness is the tone and accuracy is the technique - listeners hear cleanliness, but you're responsible for the accuracy. Again, this relates to what's going on in your mind and how you can get the fretboard to bend to your will.


Rhythm is harder to spell than it is to understand. Find a song you like, play it, and let your body move to the rhythm naturally. If you can dance with your arms, you can dance with your fingertips. It is hard to play rhythm for the same reason it is hard to dance - you hold yourself back. F*ck that dude, f*ck the whole world while you're playing. You're 48. You've made it through some shit on this planet if you've been ticking on the same battery for that long. Get it off your chest and just jam. It's like sex.

Understanding rhythm on a deep level is a serious commitment to common denominators and small-scale mathematics while juggling the fat beast that is music theory at the same time. Rhythm comes from your senses, and the only logical counterpart to that is counting (+timing!), so if you really have a logical sweet-tooth (I do personally), learn to count odd counts. I'm playing with 47/8 timing right now. Why? F*ck it, try and stop me .This is how I get down. It is harder for me to wash my balls than it is to play in 4/4.

Alternate picking is really tricky until I can see your hand in motion in tandem with your posture. It's not all in the wrist, to hell with the people that put something that has so much room for finesse into such a tiny box. Always think in terms of muscle relaxation, pick angle, WHIP! (think how you can make waves in a garden or lawn hose - do that with your arm, or don't if it's uncomfortable, I do it though), work on different volumes and just find your max speed. It's ok to have a max. You can always work around it with legato anyways until you work your way up.


I wrote a guide on sweep picking! Read it! Way longer than this post! Pretty proud of it (but I want MORE)! Sign up for the free trial on the 2nd post too!



toodles,
-Adam

 

[80H]

And my doctor said stop typing so much, HA!

 

[namewithheld]

And my doctor said stop typing so much, HA!

Your doctor might be right. But at least you type very accurately.

Great advice, though, thanks. The teacher picks using the thumb-knuckle-bending, thumb-extending technique, which had me worried right away. I couldn't tell how sloppy (or not) he was in the short time we had.

 

[tripguitar]

i feel ya man. i just started lessons with some random guy as well. he says he graduated from berklee in two years... not sure if i believe that.

i dont mean to hi-jack or de-rail your thread just sharing a similar situation

he mentioned the tri tones. i questioned him a bit and said "well a tri tone is a flat 5th interval right?" and he said "you say that like there's only one tri-tone..." then he played a minor second, and a major seventh... "see those are tri tones too!"

when we were talking about diatonic chords in a major key, i mentioned that i knew the V chord was the dominant. he said the V isnt always the dominant... it needs a 7th to be dominant...

also along the same lines... i said i know I is major ii is minor... etc... then i said and the vii chord is diminished because it's two minor thirds stacked onto each other. he said no its a minor 7 chord with a flat 5 because in order to be fully diminished it needs a 7th, which the basic triad doesnt have...

does this guy just have a weird way of describing things/looking at things... or is he full of shit?

 

[EcoliUVA]

he mentioned the tri tones. i questioned him a bit and said "well a tri tone is a flat 5th interval right?" and he said "you say that like there's only one tri-tone..." then he played a minor second, and a major seventh... "see those are tri tones too!"

The guide 80H mentioned is in my sig. That's why I dropped in.