Siggery guitars

[Matte]

Ha, in other words, after experiencing what are possibly the two worst examples of customer service in the guitar world, the next-most terrible guy seemed really great by comparison. Seriously man, how are you choosing your luthiers?

Seeing as you are in this thread, I'm assuming you have a build ordered with Marty? Therefor I'm sure he chose his builder the same way you did, by looking at guitars he likes. No need to jump down his throat for posting an opposing opinion of Marty to your own. You don't like Marty, he does, end of story.

 

[narad]

Seeing as you are in this thread, I'm assuming you have a build ordered with Marty?

No, that's a terrible assumption. You think the internet works that way?

Therefor I'm sure he chose his builder the same way you did, by looking at guitars he likes. No need to jump down his throat for posting an opposing opinion of Marty to your own. You don't like Marty, he does, end of story.

I think not - I chose my builders as some combination of (like the guitar design) + (respect for builder) + (justification of price) + (builder reputation and history). Anyone whose ordered from BRJ, Acacia, AND Siggery really needs to start factoring in that last term. Unless his motto is "Fool me once, twice, or three times, shame on you. Fool me four or more times, shame on me."

 

[Matte]

No, that's a terrible assumption. You think the internet works that way?

I think not - I chose my builders as some combination of (like the guitar design) + (respect for builder) + (justification of price) + (builder reputation and history). Anyone whose ordered from BRJ, Acacia, AND Siggery really needs to start factoring in that last term. Unless his motto is "Fool me once, twice, or three times, shame on you. Fool me four or more times, shame on me."

My assumption was based on the fact that 90% of the people in this thread are people who have ordered with him. Once again, another snide remark on your part that is not necessary.

Secondly, I went with Siggery because the only negatives I had ever heard about him where time delays, which are very common with small builders. The build quality looks good, the price was right, he has always been a pleasure to deal with on a personal level.

 

[narad]

My assumption was based on the fact that 90% of the people in this thread are people who have ordered with him. Once again, another snide remark on your part that is not necessary.

No, I'm pretty sure he doesn't have that many customers...

 

[OWHall]

No, I'm pretty sure he doesn't have that many customers...

Dude, chill. I understand your concern for potential new customers but the least you could do is be supportive of those who currently hold a stake in this. I'm not saying you should lie and say everything is fine but come on, you don't goad people in this situation.

 

[TemjinStrife]

Dude, chill. I understand your concern for potential new customers but the least you could do is be supportive of those who currently hold a stake in this. I'm not saying you should lie and say everything is fine but come on, you don't goad people in this situation.

Why should he be supportive? He's doing the right thing and making sure that potential customers are aware of issues.

 

[narad]

Why should he be supportive? He's doing the right thing and making sure that potential customers are aware of issues.

Yea, I mean, I'm making jokes too, but that shouldn't belittle the point: many of us have watched these situations develop, and this has all the tell-tale warning signs. Warning signs which include a bunch of inactive or new posters that hop in to some builder's defense before things get catastrophic.

Yes, there are some people who have guitars, I'm glad some of you guys got yours, but for all the people here being lead on with the nice email here or there and no action, or for the random guy who finds this thread thinking about placing an order, you need to be thinking worst-case scenario. Because the guys that didn't quickly get out of BRJ, or Strictly7, or the seemingly endless number of other tanked builders, well they got nothing.

You know, you can't make an argument like, hey, Charles Manson's a nice guy, he babysat my kids once and didn't eat them! Well congrats, that's what's supposed to happen. What do you tell all the people who are getting hustled? "Hang in there!" Maybe it works out, but I don't think wishful thinking is synonymous with "being supportive" in this context.

 

[Deadnightshade]

Yes, there are some people who have guitars, I'm glad some of you guys got yours, but for all the people here being lead on with the nice email here or there and no action, or for the random guy who finds this thread thinking about placing an order, you need to be thinking worst-case scenario.

Ι believe that none of us that got their guitars support the latest developments. Hell maybe we should warn about the delays in the thread title. I agree that he shouldn't get any more customers as it will only make matters worse.

As for those waiting for their guitars: there's not a machine behind the workbench that was calibrated poorly and now it's over till an engineer (or for us lawyer) comes over to fix it. He's definitely at fault, no question about that, but play it smart, in light of the new circumstances, unless you want to keep pushing him and see where it goes.

Keep it short, polite and to the point, so that he doesn't skip the hard questions, such as why a guitar is 30 months in the queue yet he finishes others with shorter waiting times, or why he's unable to refund the deposit when he's clearly breached the initial contract. Dragging the whole forum into it by mentioning negativity and BRJ is sure to trigger a response that'll be the main body of his email.

 

[Renkenstein]

There's no reason a build should pass the 2 year mark. In my n00b fumbling I finished my first in 5 months, others have finished exponentially faster. Granted, he's got a steady work flow, but I'd consider anything over a year(unless quoted so) as negligence, and a clear representation of mismanagement of time and resources.

No one should be trusting their money with any luthier who has a build 2 years outstanding.

This is a sad state of affairs. Musicians are oftentimes starving artists, as are small time luthiers. One should work with the other to create masterpieces, not take advantage of one another.

If a builder is 2 years outstanding, a thread should be stickied as a warning.

 

[Prophetable]

If a builder is 2 years outstanding, a thread should be stickied as a warning.

Agreed. Two year queue is one thing, when it's quoted and you know what you're getting yourself in to when you pull the trigger. Two years overdue is unacceptable on any level.

 

[JP Universe]

I just wanted to quickly jump back in and say.....

I have no problem waiting 4 years if the luthier quotes me 4 years in the beginning.
If he's 6 months late I'd still be ok with it.

As long as they set a reasonable expectation and keep me updated all is well.

 

[straymond]

I, like probably everyone else who has placed or concidered placing an order with marty, read through most of this thread.
and one can't avoid understanding that the buildquote is off.
I took this into concideration when I placed my order, and there might be something wrong with me but I'm all at ease. some in this thread is completely having a fit and they don't even seem to have an order in. I just don't get that.

If one has an order way over due or have gotten a lemon, I can off course understand that, but if you don't have a siggery-build going on I don't seem the point of throwing negativity around in this thread.

this leads only to further stress on the people who have a build in, and most likely, marty himself, which again won't benefit us much.
please. let this be our potential problem, and handle it the way we see fit.
again, I understand the frustration of you guys who have a build way overdue.
and comparing this to BRJ at this point is just silly. marty has some catching up to do, but let's refrain from comparing him to bernie just yet, shall we?

 

[Danukenator]

Secondly, I went with Siggery because the only negatives I had ever heard about him where time delays, which are very common with small builders. The build quality looks good, the price was right, he has always been a pleasure to deal with on a personal level.

Then you are either lying or have never read this thread.

1. I've already posted by issues, won't repeat them.

2. Another user described his directly after mine.

3. Look at the NGD's. There are plenty of elements on some of the close ups that show the owners aren't looking in the right places to claim "the guitar is perfectly made!"

Also, how are the flaws described acceptable for the price? Why should I care he is a solo builder? He is still charging in the price range of other companies' products that have a far better quality control.

If I order a 1000$ guitar, the frets had better not be flat on the top. I don't care if it how or who it was made my. People have this illusion that a small luthier that is charging next to nothing should be given a lot of slack. Why? It's not the customers obligation to sustain a poor business model that is inconvenienced by mid-tier quality control.

EDIT: To the above. It's not negativity, that's a frankly dishonest characterization of what people have said. I've had orders from plenty of small companies. I'm speaking from experience and having been on the sidelines for the issues others have experienced.

The sentiment that we should wait on the sidelines and then point out it was a bad idea after everyone gets burned 1.) doesn't make any sense and 2.) defeats the point of have users speak from their experiences. JP and Narad have FAR more experience then I do with custom builders. I'd think twice before writing off what they have to say.

 

[Homer3005]

Sooo guys.
Time to change the topic, at least a little bit..i got enough from your "oh shit, it's like BRJ, don't order one, you're all damned" thing.

As always (even if he needs some days), i got a reply from marty.
At the moment there are no new pics at the facebook page because he is off work at the moment due illness. The doctor signed him off, could be everything but i sounds like it isn't that weak..however i hope he gets well soon.

I have to say that i really like that he says sorry for the delay without any excuses. He is honest and don't tries to pretend/ that it wasn't his fault or however.

People shouldn't only see the negative aspects.

If you want you can continue now with your shitstorm like discussion

 

[JP Universe]

Oh cool man, you got an email saying that he is sick... Awesome (sarcasm) I just dunno what to say anymore, if you're inline then cool, you'll get your guitars (most of you are gonna be waiting a looooong time unless you get lucky) I'm not exaggerating anything.... I'm only posting so anyone that jumps in here has second thoughts about ordering. For anyone considering it just don't do it, save more coin!! (Apologies about the iPhone update, can't space it out) if you're inline relax and be patient, no need to try and defend marty. We actually have your best interest at heart and want him to deliver

 

[narad]

As always (even if he needs some days), i got a reply from marty.
At the moment there are no new pics at the facebook page because he is off work at the moment due illness. The doctor signed him off, could be everything but i sounds like it isn't that weak..however i hope he gets well soon.

I have to say that i really like that he says sorry for the delay without any excuses. He is honest and don't tries to pretend/ that it wasn't his fault or however.

Yea...so...that entire top paragraph. That's excuses.

 

[Homer3005]

Come on, people are going to read more than the last posts in a build thread so i believe it's enough to say it one or two times that you had bad experiences and so on.
No need to repeat it 10 times per week after every post from another user.

 

[Vicious7]

Well here's the thing.....if he's able to respond to you, and to me after I basically threatened him, then why can't he come to the forum and tell us all wtf is up?

"Hey I messed up, I took too many orders and am swamped up to my ears, so as of now I'm not taking any orders and will be finishing the oldest backlogs and moving forward thusly, I am also employing a rep to handle all photo/video updates, because after seeing how Ormsby did it, I realize how a true business should be run in terms of taking care of their customers."

*That's* what I want to effing hear and I want him or his rep to stick around and answer our questions.

 

[Homer3005]

I asked him something similar and he said that he replied to the individual people who are getting one and that he is in delay.
So he said that there is no reason to post it "again" at ss org

 

[Prophetable]

You know... except to give new orders a more reliable idea of their build times.