Smash Thread

[StevenC]

In the rules, you can turn off stage hazards, set stages to Battlefield or Final Destination mode, and even remove stages entirely from being randomly selected. See you later Wrecking Crew!

 

[wankerness]

Yeah, I have to do that to a couple levels. Pac World is one!!

I’m getting down there on the list of unlocks. Since the computers seem to be turning into bigger and bigger assholes as the process goes along, I’ve had to come up with a handful of different cheese tactics depending on opponents/level. Ganondorf is one of the best, you can get beat on horribly for 100% damage and not get a hit in, but connect with one single B attack anywhere close to the side of the level and they die instantly! I had to do that to Pacman! Roy, K Rool, Samus and Peach fill out the cheap against computers roster.

Man, Rosalina is kind of crap, huh? It seems to be impossible to cause much damage at any speed. Bayonetta seems pretty bad, too.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

world of light is really weird.

 

[wankerness]

world of light is really weird.

I decided I hate it. It's wonky and annoying and less fun than just playing regular matches against computers.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

I decided I hate it. It's wonky and annoying and less fun than just playing regular matches against computers.

I played it for about 2 hrs last night and had 2 moments where I damn near threw my controller (fighting robin in lava floor variant, and fighting sonic when he has buffed attacks in a stamina battle WITH other ai helping). The skill tree/ rock paper scissors aspect of choosing spirits feels very alien in a smash game to me. The challenge board is weird too, especially how it costs you points to take another shot at freeing the spirit (which doubles everytime iirc), and the whole weirdness with leaving some spirits in a cave for 6 hrs in hopes of getting loot. I don't really like how they're taking aspects of free to play games.

 

[wankerness]

I just looked at "tier lists" for SSB4, and discovered that the characters that seem the crappiest to me are ranked the highest (ex, Bayonetta is #1, Rosalina and Zero Suit Samus are 5 and 6!!!). Maybe they got changed up in a big way from 4 to this one, but more likely I just suck and it takes real experience to figure out how to use them. Zero Suit Samus I sorta get, I'm just still horrible at ever hitting anyone with the down-b attack. I still haven't used Diddy Kong, who's #3.

I like that Mewtwo went from near last in Melee to #10 in SSB4. I still haven't unlocked him in the new one.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Tier_list

One thing I've discovered I never do right is pull off the saves with characters that have directional ones (ex, Castlevania guys, Ganondorf). I ALWAYS do them in the wrong direction. I'm not sure what the trick is, I guess you have to first turn and THEN execute the move instead of like, hitting up-right+B while facing left. It's infuriating.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

I just looked at "tier lists" for SSB4, and discovered that the characters that seem the crappiest to me are ranked the highest (ex, Bayonetta is #1, Rosalina and Zero Suit Samus are 5 and 6!!!). Maybe they got changed up in a big way from 4 to this one, but more likely I just suck and it takes real experience to figure out how to use them. Zero Suit Samus I sorta get, I'm just still horrible at ever hitting anyone with the down-b attack. I still haven't used Diddy Kong, who's #3.

I like that Mewtwo went from near last in Melee to #10 in SSB4. I still haven't unlocked him in the new one.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Tier_list

One thing I've discovered I never do right is pull off the saves with characters that have directional ones (ex, Castlevania guys, Ganondorf). I ALWAYS do them in the wrong direction. I'm not sure what the trick is, I guess you have to first turn and THEN execute the move instead of like, hitting up-right+B while facing left. It's infuriating.

tier listing means nothing at this point. Once people start playing more and more competively the wheat will be separated from the chaff, and we'll have a better idea of which characters are super viable .

 

[wankerness]

tier listing means nothing at this point. Once people start playing more and more competively the wheat will be separated from the chaff, and we'll have a better idea of which characters are super viable .

There isn't one for this game at all, I know. I just have the 4th one and those characters play the same way and I disregarded them there, too. I was amused to see that they're so highly rated when I experienced the opposite. I know this game has tons of stuff tweaked including some characters' entire mechanics, and that those particular ones very well may end up being at the very bottom.

I saw the very first pro tournie had fox winning it. Ugh. But, it's way too early to say anything definitive.

 

[wankerness]

They nerfed the challenger fights. Good for everyone that hasn't unlocked everyone already.

Cloud and Mewtwo were pure pain. They were two of the last ones (the order is the same for all players if you unlock them through Smash instead of World of Light). I lost to both about 5 times. I eventually got Cloud with Little Mac since you need to basically beat the piss out of him as fast as possible and not let him get away or he destroys you. Mewtwo was just a dick, I got lucky and he randomly killed himself by jumping off the right side of the stage and failing to save himself!! If I'd known they were going to nerf these, I'd probably have waited since I still haven't played this multiplayer yet.

 

[Ralyks]

I'm already cooling a bit on the game. I mean, it's fun, but it'd be more fun if I actually had people to play with. And online has been, well, crap.

 

[wankerness]

I'm already cooling a bit on the game. I mean, it's fun, but it'd be more fun if I actually had people to play with. And online has been, well, crap.

Oh, of course. I haven't played any of these games since Gamecube in single player beyond unlocking fighters. It's for local multiplayer only IMO. And it's about the best game for that apart from Wario Ware!

I have zero interest in online multiplayer, especially considering the issues and the fact I'd have to pay for Nintendo's service. The fact they're holding cloud saves hostage behind that service ticks me off, though. (yeah, I think Sony does that too, but at least there are other benefits to their service)

 

[StevenC]

With regards tier lists, things seem very different in this game. All the Mewtwo players have dropped him, for example, and gone largely to Palutena.

In other news, I'm starting to consistently take a stock off my brother and learning how to play the game properly. Or at least play Roy properly. Also, this game is definitely fast enough to go back to 3 stocks.

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

There isn't one for this game at all, I know. I just have the 4th one and those characters play the same way and I disregarded them there, too. I was amused to see that they're so highly rated when I experienced the opposite. I know this game has tons of stuff tweaked including some characters' entire mechanics, and that those particular ones very well may end up being at the very bottom.

I saw the very first pro tournie had fox winning it. Ugh. But, it's way too early to say anything definitive.

The tier list is strange; in order for it to be applicable to you, you have to play the way that competitive players play- which is an entirely different playstyle from the way the majority of the playerbase operates.

For example, Bayonetta and Zero Suit are such incredible characters because they can put on an almost inescapable amount of pressure on the enemy player, and both possess the ability to combo an enemy off the top of the screen with little to no reliance on outside variables or opponent behavior. Bayonetta's was especially bothersome (to the point where it's just known as 'the combo' amongst tourney types) because she could ladder you up off the top of the stage and unless you DI it perfectly it's inescapable- as soon as the first hit landed you knew you were going to lose a stock.

Rosalina is insane because of the amount of zone control she can extol with Luma; but it takes a very skilled player to micromanage two characters like that. To the average smash player, Rosalina is just really annoying because you're going to get randomly hit by this dumb star.

Characters that are both high tier competitively and easy for casual players to understand tend to get stigmatized, and the worst case for that was Cloud. Cloud was pretty much unanimously agreed as the second best character in Sm4sh after Bayonetta, and that's because just about anything you could do, Cloud could do better. His aerials were really disjointed and hard to defend against, they took up a lot of space, the hitboxes were active for long periods of time, and they were very quick to come out. He had crazy kill potential due to the limit mechanic and how quickly limit cross slash could come out; he had very high tier mobility, he was somewhat easy to survive with (he wouldn't get launched into the blast zone at 80% like lighter characters), great frame data (I.E. he could act quickly out of attacks) he has multiple 'skillshot' moves that can drastically change the pace of the battle, and his only remote drawback was that his recovery was kind of garbage. As a result, there were a ton of memes about Cloud being babby's first smash main. Sucks for guys that just really loved FFVII.
--
As far as Ultimate goes, so far balance seems really good. There's no disgusting Bayonetta type nonsense going on from what we can see so far. Top tier characters seem to be along the lines of Young Link (who has flat out insane frame data), Roy (improved frame data/speed and solid kill potential), K. Rool (very well rounded, versatile and excellent recovery for a heavy), Peach (top tier recovery, up smash is still bae), and DK (improved from Sm4sh in every way); if you're the type to follow pro opinions, that list can also include characters like Inkling (excellent speed, savage spike), Mewtwo (improved chain potential, slightly better frame data), and Pikachu (for reasons I cannot explain but he's just good now). Versatility is king. Apart from general vibes on "who's good and who's not," though, time will tell. Anyone who claims to be able to give you a well structured, complete tier list is speculating.

Wish my boy Ridley had a bit of a better toolkit, but as it is now it looks like he's trapped in low tier. Zelda I think could be really high on the list if they gave her aerials just a little bit less endlag to where you can get off two in a single jump like in previous iterations, but c'est la vie. Still gunna main both of them. Game still feels great; haven't been posting much because work has been slammed due to year end, got sick, and all my spare time has been playing this game with my friends. We just got the 900 battles milestone last night. I'm sticking with my opinion that this is the best smash game to date.

 

[mongey]

Fiannly have had a little post Xmas time to play a bit. Getting my head around it now. Was playing link as he seemed a good , pretty straight forward place to start

Just unlocked Ryu so gonna have a tinker with him now I know how the game works.

Really not a fan of the unlocking mechanic. Maybe a few bosses or something to unlock is fine. But 85% of the cast is crappy.

 

[wankerness]

But 85% of the cast is crappy.

Completely wrong. Try playing as them a bit. I'd say 85% are GOOD. The only characters I write off are some of the basic ones that I hate playing as (non-young link, for one; I've always hated Ness; never really played as Mario cause the idea is boring) and then like, Mr Game and Watch or Palutena. And then some that are pretty much just palette swaps (ex Falco, Wolf, some of the Fire Emblem guys, Daisy). There are so many that are a lot of fun beyond the starting few. Zero Suit Samus, Bayonetta, Zelda, Sheik, Peach, Snake (even though I'm horrible as him for anything other than being an asshole and hitting guys that are attempting to save with the steerable missiles), Captain Falcon, Koopa Kid, Inkling, the Castlevania guys, Little Mac, Wii Fit Trainer, Cloud, Shulk, Roy, Marth, King K Rool, Ridley, Mewtwo, Lucario, Diddy Kong, etcetcetc. Most of the ones I don't like I've either never played as or tried once and didn't figure out at all. Olimar, Megaman, Pac-Man, Ice Climbers, Rosalina, Duck Hunt etc.

Ganondorf is terrible but I love playing as him just for those rare moments you get to punch someone with the standard B attack and they fly off the screen and explode with only 50% damage.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

Completely wrong. Try playing as them a bit. I'd say 85% are GOOD. The only characters I write off are some of the starter ones that I hate playing as (non-young link, for one) and then like, Palutena. And then some that are pretty much just palette swaps (ex Falco, Wolf, some of the Fire Emblem guys, Daisy).

calling them palette swaps is a bit misleading since some of them have different feels/attacks compared to the original (ie falco). He has differing attack values iirc (all of his moves are slightly stronger than fox) and his deflector shield can be thrown.
The only characters I truly hate so far are Rosalina/Luma and Richter/Simon. They both feel unwieldy in their movesets, especially the castlevania characters, with their bizarre slide kick/roll and lack of good close range attacks/combos. Shulk is also weird, but seems to be very useable though.

 

[mongey]

Completely wrong. Try playing as them a bit. I'd say 85% are GOOD. The only characters I write off are some of the basic ones that I hate playing as (non-young link, for one; I've always hated Ness; never really played as Mario cause the idea is boring) and then like, Mr Game and Watch or Palutena. And then some that are pretty much just palette swaps (ex Falco, Wolf, some of the Fire Emblem guys, Daisy). There are so many that are a lot of fun beyond the starting few. Zero Suit Samus, Bayonetta, Zelda, Sheik, Peach, Snake (even though I'm horrible as him for anything other than being an asshole and hitting guys that are attempting to save with the steerable missiles), Captain Falcon, Koopa Kid, Inkling, the Castlevania guys, Little Mac, Wii Fit Trainer, Cloud, Shulk, Roy, Marth, King K Rool, Ridley, Mewtwo, Lucario, Diddy Kong, etcetcetc. Most of the ones I don't like I've either never played as or tried once and didn't figure out at all. Olimar, Megaman, Pac-Man, Ice Climbers, Rosalina, Duck Hunt etc.

Ganondorf is terrible but I love playing as him just for those rare moments you get to punch someone with the standard B attack and they fly off the screen and explode with only 50% damage.

I meant keeping 85% of cast being locked away when you buy the game is crappy. Not that the characters are crappy.

I don’t have enough of a clue yet to know which characters are good or crap.

 

[wankerness]

Oh, yeah, OK. I agree with you there. At least they nerfed the unlocking difficulty a lot. I lost to Cloud like 10 times before beating him, and you have to play for something like 10 minutes of match time between every attempt if you lose! Every loss was infuriating. It didn't help that for the first attempt for each guy, you were stuck with whatever character you were using when they showed up, and sometimes that was a less than optimal character to be fighting them with.

 

[Mathemagician]

calling them palette swaps is a bit misleading since some of them have different feels/attacks compared to the original (ie falco). He has differing attack values iirc (all of his moves are slightly stronger than fox) and his deflector shield can be thrown.
The only characters I truly hate so far are Rosalina/Luma and Richter/Simon. They both feel unwieldy in their movesets, especially the castlevania characters, with their bizarre slide kick/roll and lack of good close range attacks/combos. Shulk is also weird, but seems to be very useable though.

The Belmont’s are your prototypical zoning characters. They are booty when someone gets right in your face. But between down B, forward b, neutral b, and their whip smash attack range they can pretty easily punish sloppy play and chip away a ton of health. And the forward tilt attack is a tornado that hits decently enough but more importantly hits up close where the whip fails. And that chainable divekick is just fun to annoy friends off the platform with.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

The Belmont’s are your prototypical zoning characters. They are booty when someone gets right in your face. But between down B, forward b, neutral b, and their whip smash attack range they can pretty easily punish sloppy play and chip away a ton of health. And the forward tilt attack is a tornado that hits decently enough but more importantly hits up close where the whip fails. And that chainable divekick is just fun to annoy friends off the platform with.

their b attacks are their only real saving grace. I love actually connecting with the axes, they do so much damage. All of their A attacks are pretty shit tbh. The belmonts are just way more situational than other relatively well rounded characters like young link/pit/fox
Lately I've been playing a lot of incineroar (who's a ton of fun but has an unbelievably bad recovery move). His clothesline chains and down spikes are the tits though.