So Gaga wants to meet with Obama about bullying

[Guitarman700]

This debate is starting to reek of conservative....

Sorry, but how in the bloody hell is beefing up legislation and improving the enforcement of protecting minorities (or any person for that matter) a bad thing? I keep hearing all this 'be afraid of the big, bad guberment!!!' rhetoric, but nobody can give me clear examples of how that pertains to this topic. But you're right. No need for police or anything like that. We should all arm ourselves and kill each other off. The weak gays that cant defend themselves deserve death then right?

Why dont you just come right out and say you dont give a shit dude? Why shadowbox using euphemisms for, 'Im not gay, bi or transgendered, so I dont care what happens to people that are'? You just made it clear that you care more about the size of government than the safety of the people it serves.

Hit the nail on the fucking head. Well said.

 

[Rev2010]

I *guess* I can understand the worry that someone might be convicted of more than an assault or murder on more than just that fact.

And with all the debate about people possibly being innocent of murder being put to death I can't believe the same people against such cases being all for more laws to bury the fuck out of someone in legal charges which may themselves be abused. If additional laws existed specifically for bullying who's to say many won't be severely overprosecuted just to be made an example of or because these laws overlap?? Why not charge said person with bullying, harassment, and a hate crime all at the same time and put them away for 19 years over something that might not warrant such a harsh sentence?

Sorry, but how in the bloody hell is beefing up legislation and improving the enforcement of protecting minorities (or any person for that matter) a bad thing?

I've always been of the mindset that when you make special cases for certain groups you continue the legacy of segregation and inequality. If you treat people different, even better, there's no difference from separating them amongst other races and groups. I know many here will argue certain groups need help and I'm all for that. But when you have laws with bias or preferential treatment it doesn't serve the public in terms of equality and acceptance, it only creates a divide. When I was in my teens I took the police and fireman exams and they had extra points for minorities. Do you think a Caucasian person will feel happy knowing a minority person that scored lower than them got the job based on their race??? Of course not, instead it will lead to other negative feelings. If we want this world to get over all this separation and hatred we need to treat everyone equally - no bias nor any preferential treatment.


Rev.

 

[rectifryer]

Dont worry rev, if you have an idea other than theirs they will just label you a conservative (FUCKING LOL) or someone who doesnt care about any minority( DOUBLE FUCKING LOL), its not like I'm a minority myself or anything.

You guys dont know shit about me, and cant dispute the ideas I present. All you can do is attack. How about you provide, I dont know, some fucking justification?

I find it incredibly ironic how intolerant most the people in this thread are.

 

[Rev2010]

I find it incredibly ironic how intolerant most the people in this thread are.

I'm with ya man for the mostpart, but ease down a bit because you won't win any fans flipping out on everyone. Sounds like you may have posted after one beer too many, I've done that a few times before lol

I think it's more over-sensitivity than intolerance. See, when something happens to a person they then have that personal experience and feel they have a special instance case. I've seen a number of gay or bi people post in this thread completely in support of extra legislation for anti-bullying but I probably wouldn't find those people posting anywhere near as passionately about an issue that hasn't affected them personally. It's just like how 99% of celebrities only care about medical research in the field that has affected their health and ONLY AFTER it has affected them! Jonas with diabetes, others with various cancers, Michael J. Fox with Parkinsons, etc.

I don't see any of these people giving the slightest shit about these afflictions until they get them themselves. And I think that is the ironic part - thinking YOUR issue is the most important. If someone can live the rest of their lives with a manageable disease why is that more important a cause than something that kills people early in life daily!?!?

Anyhow, I was just making a point. Those here that have been bullied because of their sexuality are hurt and scarred by it and want to see it abolished. I understand where they are coming from and why they feel the way they do. I just happen to feel they are being blinded a bit by their emotions and aren't really thinking clear-minded of the implications of enacting yet more laws to try (likely unsuccessfully) to deal with it. Not saying by any means that nothing should be done, something should be... but that's already been covered dozens of times in this thread.


Rev.

 

[Explorer]

I've always been of the mindset that when you make special cases for certain groups you continue the legacy of segregation and inequality. If you treat people different, even better, there's no difference from separating them amongst other races and groups.

Rev, you know I respect you deeply, but I disagree with your basic premise: Hate laws set up special groups, and are targeted towards those groups.

If a group stamps the shit out of someone because they're a kyke, a cracker, a ni**er, a queer, a beaner, a breeder or whatever... those laws apply equally, don't they? It's not that a particular group is protected, it's that a particular motivation for a crime has a harsher consequence.

Have I misunderstood the hate laws? Do they actually say, an attack on only these groups gets harsher punishment?

----

Your words about being affected by bullying (or any issue) and therefore caring about said issue is interesting. What's funny is, I'm not bullied, but I've gotten involved when people *have* been in a position of disadvantage.

I remember trying to talk to three guys who were cornering this girl. "Dudes, it doesn't look like she's interested in giving you what you want. Why not let her go?" "Fuck you, man, we can *take* what we want from her!" WTF?

In high school, there was the one flaming kid at prom, and people I knew were really picking the shit out of him. "Why give him a hard time? Why be a dick about someone who's not bothering you?"

It's a habit. Honestly, I don't know if bullies get their start from being bullied (probably not the case with the jock assholes I've had to stare down) or they just wanted to take advantage of someone. I don't really care. I know what the law permits me to do to stop them (one on one, stop when the situation calms down, no further immediate threat; several threatening a third hellpless party, much more latitude for permanent damage in order to stop the crowd). Personally, I don't think the law stops those people, in the same way I don't think laws stop rapists or murderers. However, having those laws allow society to act to remove those people from the rest of society for society's good.

I've known people who were bullied and who didn't go on to bully others. I've known people who weren't bullied but who went on to bully people. It's tragic when someone gets caught up in their past, and perhaps there's room for laws which have stiff penalties, but which allow alternative punishments should the courts deem such appropriate. However, if there 's a track record... sorry, I don't think the innocent should suffer for the sake of giving someone lots of chances to hurt another person.

Cheers!

 

[Rev2010]

Rev, you know I respect you deeply, but I disagree with your basic premise: Hate laws set up special groups, and are targeted towards those groups.

I respect you highly as well and enjoy your posts very much! I mean that. But, I'd just like to point out I didn't say anything negative about hate crime laws specifically here. I looked at my post you quoted and there's nothing there so if I said something negative about hate crimes specifically somewhere point it out and I will eat my words.

In the instance you quoted I was responding directly to ghstofperdition's post in which he said, "Sorry, but how in the bloody hell is beefing up legislation and improving the enforcement of protecting minorities (or any person for that matter) a bad thing?"

Since he specifically referenced enacting laws to aid in enforcement to protect minorities I responded to that specific statement.


Rev.

 

[tacotiklah]

Its interesting how Rev managed to quote what I wrote in parenthesis and still not get it.....

I say things are smelling conservative because the big government argument is a staple of conservative belief. Also one of the biggest arguments used by republicans to keep dont ask, dont tell in place was that gays wanted 'special treatment'. (because asking for equal treatment as straight people is demanding special treatment. )

So when I see people regurgitating the same crap that conservatives have for the last few decades, Im just gonna call people out on it. All that anyone in the lgbt community wants is the same rights as anyone else, including the right to be protected from having our skulls bashed in. The people that make us out to be different from anyone else are the people that continue to strip and deny us fair treatment. Instead of asking the lgbt community the question of "What make you guys so different from me!?", go ask the bigots in legislation "Hey, whats them any different from us?". You'd do more good than harm then.

As far as this topic in general goes, people that go out of their way to specifically target us violently, just because of who we are, DESERVE to be targeted by the law specifically just because of who THEY are. (i.e. bigots)
But Im sure you guys will find a way to spin that basic fair rule into a rant into how thats just those pity party gays/bis wanting 'special treatment'. *sigh*

 

[tacotiklah]

I find it incredibly ironic how intolerant most the people in this thread are.

Projecting your own feelings onto other people will win you no sympathy here dude. If people here are on your ass, its because your posts have become increasingly offensive and you are being called out on them. You cant just post things like 'Sorry guys, but you guys are anymore special than high school girls being pressured for sex' and not expect some people to get really pissed. And it just kept going downhill from there. Best suggestion at this point would be to apologize, we all shake hands and we move on. Anything less than that will result in a lot of unpleasantness.

 

[Rev2010]

Ghstofperdition - I didn't read most of your post but sskimmed through it. For one - calm down. Two, I am NOWHER near being a conservative, nor a liberal, so please stop insinuating that I am. I simply think with my mind. I hate both extreme sides equally because they typically have an unswaying belief system. Have a good day dude. No offense meant by not fully reading your post as I am outside brewing beer and have to keep an eye on the propane burner.


Rev.

 

[Explorer]

I am outside brewing beer and have to keep an eye on the propane burner.

I normally drink beer chilled, and ale between cold and room temperature. It's obvious I've been doing it wrong, and should be making it like Earl Grey tea, only warmed up with a huge propane burner. *laugh*

----

Okay, I see how this whole thing blew up.

Someone (I'm not going to bother going back and finding out who) asserted special treatment. People reacted back and forth.

I noted that the hate crime laws are written not to protect any special group, as none are named, but only to put in penalties specific to targeting someone due to hatred of a group, regardless of which group that is. Until someone posts examples of someone getting successfully prosecuted of a hate crime without it passing the sniff test of a jury trial, I think we can all call bullshit on that argument as a talking point.

As to *why* that's even a talking point someone would embrace, as in the case of that racist who was recently put to death, I don't understand. That's okay, as I don't need to understand why someone would argue that the poor executed guy's hatred of another race, and the turning of that bigotry into lethal action, should be condoned by society.

Cheers!

(And now, apparently Rev has too much beer on his hands to concentrate on SS.org, which should be a priority, so I suggest we all go to his house and consume his beer and thereby take that headache off his hands....)

 

[Rev2010]

so I suggest we all go to his house and consume his beer and thereby take that headache off his hands....)

I'd LOVE to have you guys over!! Too bad so many of us are far away from one another. And even the one or two that are close have never actually followed through with coming over to have a few beers yet


Rev.

 

[Guitarman700]

I'd LOVE to have you guys over!! Too bad so many of us are far away from one another. And even the one or two that are close have never actually followed through with coming over to have a few beers yet


Rev.

Beer heals all wounds.

 

[tacotiklah]

Beer heals all wounds.

I agree. While my passion may make me come off as a dick, theres no reason we cant have a beer and a hug.

 

[chronocide]

Frankly, I think you're a pretty shit parent if you can't keep your kids under control without hitting them after they're infants anyway. I think there are plenty parents that are too soft, but it's the lack of harsh words, not the lack of physical chastisement that's the issue.

Apparently this post makes me a "dickbag". I'm curious as to what's contentious about it?

Do people really think children over a few years old REQUIRE beating as a rule to keep them in line? Could those lessons not have been well-learned prior to then if you are any kind of parent at all? Surely those physical lessons should be few and far between (if at all) and that should build a basis for verbal ones once cognition is developing?

EDIT: And again? Good grief. Fucking LOL.

 

[AxeHappy]

I actually do think almost every kid could use a disciplinary hit at some point in their life.

However, I don't think you deserve neg rep for your statements so have some free positive rep even though I disagree with your post.

 

[NickDowe]

With out BULLIES there would be no HEROES

...and who wants to live in a world without heroes??

So the next time your kid gets kicked in the mouth because you sent him to school in a turtle neck, instead of rushing down to the town PTA meeting or calling your congress person.. run down to the mad science lab and get kid a radioactive spider, a utility belt, some flashy red tights and you send the lil fucker back to school and have him dole out some STREET JUSTICE!!!

 

[DrakkarTyrannis]

In my opinion this isn't an "epidemic", it's just getting more media coverage. It's a shame the news has a field day with this, not because of how sad it may be, but because it gets people to watch. Honestly bullying will never stop, even when you're an adult. When you're different people fuck with you. I'm all for teaching kids how to deal with bullying instead of creating some soft cushy world where children are horribly fragile because there have been laws and everything else in place to keep their feelings from being hurt. The world is cruel, assholes are everywhere, the goal is learning how to deal with them when they/should they come your way, not doing everything short of the power of God to avoid them.

 

[rectifryer]

Projecting your own feelings onto other people will win you no sympathy here dude. If people here are on your ass, its because your posts have become increasingly offensive and you are being called out on them. You cant just post things like 'Sorry guys, but you guys are anymore special than high school girls being pressured for sex' and not expect some people to get really pissed. And it just kept going downhill from there. Best suggestion at this point would be to apologize, we all shake hands and we move on. Anything less than that will result in a lot of unpleasantness.

LOL so you represent the board? You just magically stepped up?

What is this unpleasantness? You are going to somehow punish me? I am shaking in my boots, let me tell you.

Girls are raped ALL THE TIME. Is this not traumatic? Personally, I find it offensive that you think apparently only homosexual people suffer? You assume I am not homosexual and that most of my friends arent? You are projecting. You cant concieve a point different from your own.

And you are right, smaller gov't does fit in to conservative, but it ALSO fits in LIBERTARIAN. Which I would suspect both of us would gravitate towards.

You have a had a hostile tone far before I entered this thread....

 

[Guitarman700]

LOL so you represent the board? You just magically stepped up?

What is this unpleasantness? You are going to somehow punish me? I am shaking in my boots, let me tell you.

Girls are raped ALL THE TIME. Is this not traumatic? Personally, I find it offensive that you think apparently only homosexual people suffer? You assume I am not homosexual and that most of my friends arent? You are projecting. You cant concieve a point different from your own.

And you are right, smaller gov't does fit in to conservative, but it ALSO fits in LIBERTARIAN. Which I would suspect both of us would gravitate towards.

You have a had a hostile tone far before I entered this thread....

The only person with a hostile tone here is you.
And yes, you are quite obviously projecting.

 

[rectifryer]

I agree. While my passion may make me come off as a dick....

CLEARLY projecting. Clearly?

I get it. You guys feel strongly about it. Thats great. I support this cause, but I dont think new legislation will do it alone.

My favorite part was when you guys couldnt make a point about your own argument then decided you wouldn't tolerate another's idea.

LOL