So Gaga wants to meet with Obama about bullying

[rectifryer]

There has a to be a consequence greater than the gain as well as a reason for a child to truly learn or grow from a punishment.

I dont think legislation will accomplish this. I dont think LGG should be allowed to step foot near the white house in any sort of inluential capacity.

If you are gay and harrased in school because of it, then it is sexual harrassment. There is no need for an extra clause. I have sympathy for you, but you are no more special that all the girls getting maliciously pressured for sex by all the jocks because said jocks see Lady Gaga's videos and think all girls just want it.

Its a matter or proper enforcement of what we already have in place and cultural changes. Neither will happen soon. This isnt a disney movie.

 

[tacotiklah]

Above post makes me bristle with rage due to its sheer ignorance....

 

[Explorer]

@rectifyer - Are you saying that rather than legislation which prohibits certain behaviors, we should have corporal punishment at a level set by the discretion of the one administering it?

Sorry, but I had kids in my classes from kindergarten through graduation whose parents let them get away with anything, and those who were beaten down for nothing.

The reason legislation levels certain fields is that it applies equally to everyone.

Incidentally, you should look up the definition of sexual harassment, and the definition of bigotry and racism. You're making the case that the recent execution in Texas was over harassment instead of being over a hate crime. Not being familiar with what you're talking about makes it hard to convince anyone that you *are* familiar enough to talk knowledgeably about it.

 

[AxeHappy]

Did he say that getting the shit beat out of you for being gay is the same thing as girls being pressured for sex?

I think it's self-evident how untrue that is?

 

[rectifryer]

LOL sure, put words in my mouth.

No, getting the shit beat out of you would be assault and a hate crime. Thats not even what I was talking about. I was talking about someone's experiences here in the thread. AS IT IS CLEAR THAT KILLING SOMEONE ISN'T HARASSMENT.

My point, as clearly stated before, is that there is ALREADY LEGISLATION IN PLACE THAT DOES THE SAME THING.

There are hate crime laws/harrassment laws/assault...

If you guys cant read a post, then dont tell me I am not qualified to talk about this.


Explorer,

So, wait a sec, are you telling me that the legislation in place already didnt protect you? So if we rename it, the bullys will stop?

LOL

 

[tacotiklah]

Did he say that getting the shit beat out of you for being gay is the same thing as girls being pressured for sex?

I think it's self-evident how untrue that is?

Hence why I was pissed and left the thread. I mean REALLY!!!!??? Matthew Shepard died because 2 guys wanted in his pants!!!??

No, he died because two bigots tortured and killed him just for being gay. What part of 'WE ARE BEING BEATEN, TORTURED AND MURDERED' do some of you not understand!? This hatred starts at a young age when kids mirror and parrot their parents own bigot actions and words. Obviously the parent wont intercede. We need help from somebody. I say we legislate against the parents in addition to the kids when hate crimes occur. Make the crosstitutes rethink what they teach their kids. Because if the religious right had their way, there would be an ol' fashioned genocide going on, and people like myself would be on the hit list. The indifference on the matter makes people just as bad as those who commit the crimes. We dont want sympathy, we want support.....

 

[rectifryer]

Hence why I was pissed and left the thread. I mean REALLY!!!!??? Matthew Shepard died because 2 guys wanted in his pants!!!??

No, he died because two bigots tortured and killed him just for being gay. What part of 'WE ARE BEING BEATEN, TORTURED AND MURDERED' do some of you not understand!? This hatred starts at a young age when kids mirror and parrot their parents own bigot actions and words. Obviously the parent wont intercede. We need help from somebody. I say we legislate against the parents in addition to the kids when hate crimes occur. Make the crosstitutes rethink what they teach their kids. Because if the religious right had their way, there would be an ol' fashioned genocide going on, and people like myself would be on the hit list. The indifference on the matter makes people just as bad as those who commit the crimes. We dont want sympathy, we want support.....

Uhh what you need is proper enforcement of the current laws and a cultural change. Guess who said that earlier?

You need to calm the fuck down.

http://www.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/parent-liability-child-s-act

The first laws making parents liable for their childrens actions were passed in 1903.

 

[tacotiklah]

sure thing. just as soon as you stop treating the issue as if its some trival locker room bullshit, and become more aware of just how bad it still is to be a gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered person in this fundamentalist country. A marine gets booed and belittled at a republican debate, just because he is gay. If Bachmann had her way, we would be in concentration camps. Id say that we have a LOT to be afraid of at the moment, and this isnt an issue that should be swept under the rug as your posts seem to imply. And the kind of legislation Im talking about would be as such:
Your kid commits a hate crime that results in murder, both you and your child end up on death row. Bet ya parents would have more incentive to teach their kids right from wrong then huh?

 

[Explorer]

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. Your post seemed a little confused/unclear, and I was trying to figure out what your point was in terms of the weird intersection of a few subjects.

What was weirdest about this, though, was reading this, which made it sound like you were saying it while lisping and flapping your hands in a mocking way.

Explorer,

So, wait a sec, are you telling me that the legislation in place already didnt protect you? So if we rename it, the bullys will stop?

LOL

Very humorous for some, the idea that someone who posted about hate crimes and harassment is "gay," and in a negative sense. Nice attempt at mocking, which might work in your social circles, although maybe not so much here on SS.org. Thanks for letting us all know where you're coming from, though!

 

[Stealthdjentstic]

Bullying builds character.

 

[tacotiklah]

Uhh what you need is proper enforcement of the current laws and a cultural change. Guess who said that earlier?

You need to calm the fuck down.

Parent Liability Child's Act: Encyclopedia of Everyday Law

The first laws making parents liable for their childrens actions were passed in 1903.

Just read through that. Im not talking about civil penalties, but criminal. As in you serve hard time if your kid is a bigot and lashes out at minorities.

 

[Loomer]

Bullying builds character.

Just not necessarily the good kind, but yes, it does indeed build character

I was given the light version of bullying myself, and in a way I am grateful for it these days. It made me an independent thinker, which can't be bad.

 

[khournos]

In my opinion murder is murder, harrassment is harrassment and bullying is bullying, no matter the minorities/races/whatsoever involved.

Because let's face it, if someone bashes someones head in, there has to be some level of hate involved.
So just punish everyone the same.

My two cents on that stuff.

 

[murakami]

In my opinion murder is murder, harrassment is harrassment and bullying is bullying, no matter the minorities/races/whatsoever involved.

Because let's face it, if someone bashes someones head in, there has to be some level of hate involved.
So just punish everyone the same.

My two cents on that stuff.

i have to disagree and agree. very respectful notion i have to say as well.

unfortunately, people can label any crime a hate crime when the victim is another race or gay. now, sometimes it's just down played like that because thats all we see; color or status.

i'd still like the people who attack others based on differences in appearance, color etc... to be punished more harshly because all crimes of passion are based upon emotions towards a certain person, yet racial crimes can victimize any person of that race which could mean larger numbers in casualties or a repeat offender to that specific race he/she hates.

at least with a person who killed someone specifically, he/she wont try to target another person unless he/she has a motive to whichi s usually based on emotion.

 

[anthonyferguson]

sure thing. just as soon as you stop treating the issue as if its some trival locker room bullshit, and become more aware of just how bad it still is to be a gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered person in this fundamentalist country. A marine gets booed and belittled at a republican debate, just because he is gay. If Bachmann had her way, we would be in concentration camps. Id say that we have a LOT to be afraid of at the moment, and this isnt an issue that should be swept under the rug as your posts seem to imply. And the kind of legislation Im talking about would be as such:
Your kid commits a hate crime that results in murder, both you and your child end up on death row. Bet ya parents would have more incentive to teach their kids right from wrong then huh?

This is so sad. Catch up America. The other day my dad (priest in the Anglican church) was telling me in Scandinavia, two bishops were ordained. Both were women and one was married to another woman. I'd like to see ms. bachmann have a 'conversation' with my housemates, both of which are lesbians, and very outspoken ones at that. GTFO intolerant arseholes.

 

[Explorer]

There seems to be a lot of worry that someone might be prosecuted wrongfully under a hate crime statute. I *guess* I can understand the worry that someone might be convicted of more than an assault or murder on more than just that fact.

However, this is like listening to the rhetoric about the "war on Christmas," where there are lots of assertions about Christians not being able to celebrate publicly... but when one looks, the only examples given are of someone not wanting others to celebrate equally in such public ways, and so shuts it down for everyone rather than let that happen.

In those threads, I've typically asked for a few examples of the "war on Christmas" which were of people other than Christians being allowed to celebrate publicly, while Christmas was disallowed. None were forthcoming.

And that leads me to wonder.

For all of the rhetoric about wrongfully convicting someone of a hate crime... can anyone actually provide a good example of such? Or is this just a rhetorical device without any actual support? If the latter, it might explain why so many are listening to that position with a grain of salt... or a handful.

Still, I'm hoping to learn something. Post those news stories!

 

[rectifryer]

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. Your post seemed a little confused/unclear, and I was trying to figure out what your point was in terms of the weird intersection of a few subjects.

What was weirdest about this, though, was reading this, which made it sound like you were saying it while lisping and flapping your hands in a mocking way.



Very humorous for some, the idea that someone who posted about hate crimes and harassment is "gay," and in a negative sense. Nice attempt at mocking, which might work in your social circles, although maybe not so much here on SS.org. Thanks for letting us all know where you're coming from, though!

Explorer, I dont personally know you, but I can tell you that you are not reading my posts or you are reading way more into it than I am saying. You said with your "experiences" that bullys wont stop. You didnt mention the context as specific to homosexuals, just that kids will bully despite the laws in place. My retort was not an inference that you were gay although that shouldnt matter anyways. It was a point that semantics is all this feels like. If you have details or information supporting why this is not true then we should discuss that versus everyone attacking other.

 

[rectifryer]

There seems to be a lot of worry that someone might be prosecuted wrongfully under a hate crime statute. I *guess* I can understand the worry that someone might be convicted of more than an assault or murder on more than just that fact.

I dont think its so much a wrongful conviction that scares people so much as simply being accused is enough to ruin a person's reputation...

 

[rectifryer]

sure thing. just as soon as you stop treating the issue as if its some trival locker room bullshit, and become more aware of just how bad it still is to be a gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered person in this fundamentalist country. A marine gets booed and belittled at a republican debate, just because he is gay. If Bachmann had her way, we would be in concentration camps. Id say that we have a LOT to be afraid of at the moment, and this isnt an issue that should be swept under the rug as your posts seem to imply. And the kind of legislation Im talking about would be as such:
Your kid commits a hate crime that results in murder, both you and your child end up on death row. Bet ya parents would have more incentive to teach their kids right from wrong then huh?

You just keep standing behind big government. One day, someone like bachman is going to have more power than they need to, then you will find all the legislative power is going to fall back on you. Your fear is stripping your freedom.

 

[tacotiklah]

This debate is starting to reek of conservative....

Sorry, but how in the bloody hell is beefing up legislation and improving the enforcement of protecting minorities (or any person for that matter) a bad thing? I keep hearing all this 'be afraid of the big, bad guberment!!!' rhetoric, but nobody can give me clear examples of how that pertains to this topic. But you're right. No need for police or anything like that. We should all arm ourselves and kill each other off. The weak gays that cant defend themselves deserve death then right?

Why dont you just come right out and say you dont give a shit dude? Why shadowbox using euphemisms for, 'Im not gay, bi or transgendered, so I dont care what happens to people that are'? You just made it clear that you care more about the size of government than the safety of the people it serves.