So...Why do People Hate on Gibson and Fender Again?

[Eric Christian]

Fender and Gibson are great brands, don't get me wrong, but 85% of the people on this forum play metal. On top of that, they play 7 or 8 string metal, and Gibson and Fender don't make 7s or 8s, so people are naturally going to hate on them because they're missing one or two strings.

Actually, both Gibson and Fender have previously made 7 string guitars.

 

[technomancer]

Actually, both Gibson and Fender have previously made 7 string guitars.

Unfortunately they were both mediocre imports (I've owned and played both at one time)

I would LOVE a Gibson Traditional LP 7 and a Fender American Deluxe Strat 7

 

[CrazyDean]

I have a Gibson and a Fender. Granted they both are from the 80s and both have Kahler trems.

- Very few models offered from either with good trems.
- I don't like set necks.
- I don't care for single-coil pups.
- Gibson necks are too fat.
- Very few 7s offered.

All in all, they both make some great guitars, but they just don't offer what I like.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Unfortunately they were both mediocre imports

The Gibson V 7 wasn't MiA?

I'm only partly being sarcastic, because stranger things have happened, I suppose.

Wasn't there also a Gibson EX-7 briefly? I'd have thought it was MiA, too.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

You're right.

The guy from Nickelback used this one. They looked awesome, but (I know Max and some other people are going to get at me about this) I don't like 7-strings that are below 25.5''. I don't think it feels and sounds right.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

The guy from Nickelback used this one. They looked awesome, but (I know Max and some other people are going to get at me about this) I don't like 7-strings that are below 25.5''. I don't think it feels and sounds right.

I'm not going to get at you at all. I fully respect that you haven't liked any of those <25.5" scale 7-strings you've owned.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

But I do own a 24.75'' 6 string that doesn't like lower tunings.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

But I do own a 24.75'' 6 string that doesn't like lower tunings.

Which would be? Through what amp? What aren't you digging?

Totally not trying to pick on you man, just laying it out there. Just trying to help you find some awesome tones for the guitar you already own.


I LOVE my Les Pauls in A#, B, and C# through my Flexi, and I can totally respect how someone playing through their gig rig might not like certain things. My A# LP is more for the Doom though, but the B LP has been digging Amon Amarth tracks lately.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

LTD Eclipse, EMG 85, TBX150H w/ an OD pedal. Just didn't sound right, a bit too loose and not enough attack. Sounded fine in higher tunings like DE standard to drop C. . My RG7321 sounded better, even with the stock pickups.

EDIT: Also, i was using those Dunlop Heavy Core strings. .12 - .54 or something like that.

 

[tommychains]

I'll just put my 2 cents in here.

My beef with gibson is that they are REALLY far behind in "innovation". Their prices are through the dam roof, and I've played their real expensive ones. I played a $4000 Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul (mouthful) and I really wasn't blown away by it. Just felt like a regular Les Paul with fancy bells and whistles.

As much as I like fender (wouldn't have 2/3 of my collection if it wasn't for the strat), they really need to step up their product lines. Nothing really amazing, but nice. Like Gibson, nostalgia only gets you so far. Let's all remember Kramer almost put Gibson into bankruptcy in the 80's because they offered everything but the kitchen sink. Gibson didn't, and the only reason they're still around is their aquisition of kramer. Their buisiness practices are real scummy, ask anyone on the receiving end of their lawyer army.

To sum it up for both gibson and fender, try some new things. For fender, some new models and some gear for the heavier musicians. Not neccessarilly 7 strings, but some floyds and active pickups standard would sure get people interested.

For gibson, new models and something to bring a new generation of players into the gibson grips. A seven string les paul would basically blow imitators out of the water. Another idea is to STOP CHARGING AN ARM AND A LEG FOR EVERYTHING YOU SELL. Not every person who wants a Gibson can afford $2000.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Okay, as said before.

GIBSON MAKES CHEAPER MODELS. Seriously, it's like everyone here thinks Gibson Custom Shop is the ONLY Gibson brand. Go to Musiciansfriend.com and see how many sub-$2000 guitars Gibson sells.

And for not being innovative:

Anyone who says that Gibson and/or Fender hasn't "innovated" in years is either willfully ignorant or living under a rock.

In the last ten years Gibson has:
-Introduced the Digital Les Paul, a model which integrates MIDI function, digital output, and magnetic pickups far beyond a simple Ghost/Shadow install.
-Used uncommon, yet great sounding and sustainable woods via the Smartwood series.
-Introduced the Firebird X, while maligned for being "pointless" and "ugly" it does the represent the first high-end approach to built in amp modeling in a guitar.
-Gibson's work with Ned Steinberger is of note, granted not much was accomplished, but they've still backed some interesting ideas such as the scalable-baritone.
-The use of composite materials such as Richlite.
-The Dusk Tiger, a guitar that can be setup with pre-programmed EQ for each pickup and setting, years before the EBMM "Gamechanger".

In the last ten years Fender has:
-Incorporated things like compound radius fretboards on Strats in an attempt to "modernize".
-The use of LSR hardware such as specialized roller nuts, tuners, and bridges.
-Using electronics such as S1 switching, Greasebucket, and No-Load pots. Who else loads stock guitars with that?
-Working with Roland to have integrated MIDI systems in guitars. Something that wasn't even done fully in the 80's outside of some unique, and usually homebrewed, examples.
-Being one of the first major companies to work with and help develop Lace's unique Sensor line of pickups.

That's all the tip of the iceberg by the way, especially Fender considering how they own Jackson/Charvel.

Just because a Les Paul looks like a Les Paul and a Strat looks like a Strat, doesn't mean changes haven't been made.

Also, Fender doesn't need to release metal-oriented guitars when they own both Jackson and Charvel.

 

[Don Vito]

HEY GUYS CAN I GET A GIBSON FOR UNDER $7000

PLEASE HELP

GIBSON MAKES CHEAPER MODELS.

I DONT BELIEVE YOU

 

[tommychains]

I know fender owns jackson and charvel, but I myself sometime miss that duck tone of a strat. So combine the two maybe? Idk; maybe I'm just speaking for myself here.

In regards to the smartwood guitars, the reason they did that was because they were caught illegally using and storing endangered woods. They had EPA come down on them HARD and they made a distraction for the public, which was the smartwood guitars.

I think gibson's just one of those love it or hate it kind of brands. I've used a number of their cheaper guitars, so I know you don't NEED $2000 for a gibson. All I'm saying is the cheaper guitars they're selling are just that; cheap. I had to fix a buddy's SG right out of the box. The wiring was bad, frets were still sharp at the ends, and the nut had to be fixed as well. I may have just worked on a rare exception, but it's not the first time I've heard horror stories. When's the last time you heard of a completely jacked up Dean?

 

[flexkill]

When's the last time you heard of a completely jacked up Dean?

 

[nothingleft09]

I own a US Explorer standard in black and I love the thing. Changed the pups, put some ZW strings on it and it sits comfortably in drop B flat.

My problem with Gibsons innovations are this... Only a few of those innovations make any difference to musicians. Most of those "innovations" are gimmicks in my book. I love the smart wood ideas though. As the other threads posted on woods point out we cut down trees for everything. They don't grow back fast. So having sustainable wood choices is a great thing. But seriously, the auto tune thing... Are you really so lazy you have to spend a shit load of money on a guitar that tunes itself? The Baritone Explorer is the shit though and I would love to have one and would love to see Gibson come out with a baritone in more of their models and actually keep them in production. 24.75 scale is great for Standard tuning but there are other tunings and styles of music to consider from a product standpoint. On the fender side of things it is true there is no need for them to really do anything other than traditional guitars when they have Jackson/Charvel in their pocket.

 

[Crabface]

I know fender owns jackson and charvel, but I myself sometime miss that duck tone of a strat. So combine the two maybe? Idk; maybe I'm just speaking for myself here.

In regards to the smartwood guitars, the reason they did that was because they were caught illegally using and storing endangered woods. They had EPA come down on them HARD and they made a distraction for the public, which was the smartwood guitars.

I think gibson's just one of those love it or hate it kind of brands. I've used a number of their cheaper guitars, so I know you don't NEED $2000 for a gibson. All I'm saying is the cheaper guitars they're selling are just that; cheap. I had to fix a buddy's SG right out of the box. The wiring was bad, frets were still sharp at the ends, and the nut had to be fixed as well. I may have just worked on a rare exception, but it's not the first time I've heard horror stories. When's the last time you heard of a completely jacked up Dean?

Lol
I disagree with most of what you said here and that last sentence does it for me. Dean?! Seriously? Gibson are miles ahead of dean on every aspect. Also, cheap Gibsons hardly feel cheap. They are generally very sturdy and well built and the fret work isn't bad at all most of the time. My Les Paul Studio is still one of the best guitars I've played.
Also, their cheaper guitars usually comes down to cosmetics at the end of the day. The just cut down on the gloss, binding and pretty woods... But at the same time half the the people on the forum are getting natural satin finished guitars - just like on Gibsons.

The first thing I thing if when I hear "cheap guitars" is crap feel. It just feels wrong... Like a toy of sorts. That is the last thing you can associate with Gibson in my experience.

That said... Gibson really need to add some 7 strings and baritones to their Tribute or Studio series. I'd jump on that in an instant, but otherwise Gibson doesn't have much more to offer me. I'd love to see them with swamp ash bodies too.

 

[josefh]

Nice quality on the new Gibbos by far just upload a review/test of a classic custom 2012 and it played nice

 

[Demiurge]

My beef with gibson is that they are REALLY far behind in "innovation".

Really, aside from guitars with advanced onboard electronics in Variax, Moog, Peavy Autotune guitars, and the Firebird X (ah! Gibson!) I'm really itching to know what other companies are doing that are out-innovating these old geezers.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

I'm going to go on a whim and say that people are accusing them of not being "innovative" is because they don't make many 7 strings and have no 8 string models at all.

 

[knifefightintheor]

I know fender owns jackson and charvel, but I myself sometime miss that duck tone of a strat. So combine the two maybe? Idk; maybe I'm just speaking for myself

Adrian Smoth SDX? HSS Dinky? HSS Soloist? So Cal with coil taps?

The two have been combined. I didn't quote the rest of your post because it was full of myths that have already been dispelled in this thread.