So...Why do People Hate on Gibson and Fender Again?

[s_k_mullins]

I dunno, but I'm gassing over this right now.

American Deluxe Strat® HSS | Electric Guitars | Fender Guitars

Seems pretty high quality to me. Not sure about the compound radius neck though.

The American Deluxe models are definitely high quality, great guitars!

And the compound radius is pretty cool. I had it on my Charvel San Dimas and I really dug it.

 

[pushpull7]

I had a pro mod and it was cool. What I'm worried about is when I need work done on it. I'm guessing someone would have to know what they are doing if it ever needed let's say a fret level.

 

[Danukenator]

As a Fender fan, I left my local shop disappointed this week. A gold finished Jazzmaster that just had lame quality control. Same for the Cobain tribute/sig. Both had sloppy binding and a terrible set up. The Gold one had a few routing errors near the neck pocket as well.

I'll try some newer Gibsons tomorrow but I'm a little bummed with Fender's high end stuff. Their "middle" class range was dominating the more expensive stuff.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I find thin necks more playable to my style than the traditional C shape of a Gibson.

Not all Gibson necks are fat Cs though, they have plenty of thin, D shaped necks. Try out some SGs with the 60's profile, it's a bit thinner than the LP version and a really beauty to play, and that's coming from a HUGE Ibby fan/player.

None of my RGs have a clear coat on them from the factory. The only one of my Ibbys that have a clear coat is my SZR720. I know Fender does a satin finish, but I've only ever found 1 Strat that I've liked (50th anniversary model) and it was MIM.

Ibanez does not ship guitars with "unfinished" necks. They all have a poly based clear coat applies. All of them. That's a fact.

Usually it's satin/matte finished, but not always.

Gibson, while usually gloss, have been releasing tons of satin finished LPs and SGs as of late.

I'm not saying that Gibsons and Fenders can't be used to play any style, because quite honestly any guitar can be used for any style. I just find that Gibson and Fender don't fit as well into a style that they weren't necessarily made for.

What are they "made for" though? Look at all the artists who use Les Pauls in heavier context and make them sound absolutely amazing.

Can you really throw on an In Flames, Amon Amarth, or Mastodon album and say that Gibsons are only built for blues rock? Or play a Yngwie Malmsteen or Slipknot record and say the same for Strats?

As far as RGs sounding the same, can't say I feel you on that one. I have an RG320FM that just has that right balance in resonance between the neck and body which makes it sound ....ing godly. I have an RG320EX that gives a more full and rich tone. My RGR121DX sounds thin as piss, and my RGD2127Z sounds so thick that it's almost guaranteed to make your dick hard.

Well, I wouldn't exactly call the low end Ibanez stuff consistent in any stretch of the imagination.

Just about all my 90's MIJ RGs, whether a 550, 560, 750, 770, etc., sounded identical. They had great consistency back then. I've probably owned well over 100 at this point.

Same goes for my UV7s, they've all sounded essentially the same, minus two that really stood out.

As far as Fender goes, yes I can because in all Fender models there's a certain twang to them that you hear no matter which you're using. Even in Jim Root's tele and JM I can hear the slight twang. Not bashing it. That's what makes a Fender a Fender. But if I want twang, I'll twang the string myself, don't need the guitar to do it for me.

Sorry, I'm going to have to call BS on this. I've played the JM and it sounds far closer to a couple ESP M-II models I've owned than any of my Fender or G&L Strats.

The mahogany body and EMGs don't know that it says "Fender" on the headstock.

Can you point out the twang here:


Or here:

Where Gibson is concerned, an LP and SG model sound extremely close to each other and the only thing that seperates them, aside from body shape, is the wood density in the models.

They can sound similar, but it really depends on the exact models we're talking about. A Les Paul Custom 3P is going to sound significantly different than an SG Special P90.

You can shape a guitar any way you'd like, but similarly dense woods will produce similar resonance and tone. I realize that the SG has less wood volume than a Les Paul, but less volume can be counteracted by a higher density. Couple that with just about the same necks and you're more or less producing the same guitar.

Similar, not the same. Just like an Alder/Maple/Rosewood Strat (even with buckers) can sound quite different than an Alder/Maple/Rosewood JEM.

A guitar is the sum of everything that goes into it.

 

[Curt]

I am just going to throw out there that I love strats, and REALLY wish Fender would make some normal SSS 7 string strats. When recording, I reach to my strat almost exclusively for clean tone duty.
Also, I make a little extra money doing setups for people in my area, and love when people bring in Fenders. Easiest and quickest setups to do are on a vintage trem strat.

 

[yingmin]

I am just going to throw out there that I love strats, and REALLY wish Fender would make some normal SSS 7 string strats.

They probably don't perceive much of a market for them, and honestly, I can't blame them.

 

[Curt]

They probably don't perceive much of a market for them, and honestly, I can't blame them.

Oh, I am aware of the niche market within a still somewhat niche market. either way, I do plan to have one built at some point.

 

[Bandersnatch]

Not all Gibson necks are fat Cs though, they have plenty of thin, D shaped necks. Try out some SGs with the 60's profile, it's a bit thinner than the LP version and a really beauty to play, and that's coming from a HUGE Ibby fan/player.

I hate to say that I have tried all sorts of SG models and have just found none with a neck profile thin enough to be comfortable for me to play on.

Ibanez does not ship guitars with "unfinished" necks. They all have a poly based clear coat applies. All of them. That's a fact.

Usually it's satin/matte finished, but not always.

Gibson, while usually gloss, have been releasing tons of satin finished LPs and SGs as of late.

I think this is where we seem to getting confused on what the difference between a "clear coat" and "finish" is, possibly differing in opinion.

I don't argue that Ibby necks come with a poly based finish.

My distinction between a finish and clear coat is that a finish will still allow you to feel the texture of the wood on the back of the neck. The clear coat I'm talking about is what you see on most LP necks. It gives one uniform feeling throughout and can be glossy. I also feel a thin layer of this clear coat on Fenders as well which is enough to turn me off to it. The clear coat causes my fret hand to really drag along the neck where the finish that comes on most Ibanez guitars doesn't cause that.

I apologize if there was confusion regarding this.

What are they "made for" though? Look at all the artists who use Les Pauls in heavier context and make them sound absolutely amazing.

I find Gibson to be good for Rock, Blues, SOME country, more or less the roots of music played on instruments. Fender - Jazz, Classic Rock, Country, Bluegrass... As far as translating into metal or more aggressive styles, I just don't happen to like the way that they sound in those genres. Even Matt Heafy's LP sound on the Trivium records I can't say I'm huge on.

Can you really throw on an In Flames, Amon Amarth, or Mastodon album and say that Gibsons are only built for blues rock? Or play a Yngwie Malmsteen or Slipknot record and say the same for Strats?

Again, referring to above, I personally don't like the way those brands and models translate into aggressive styles.

Well, I wouldn't exactly call the low end Ibanez stuff consistent in any stretch of the imagination.

Just about all my 90's MIJ RGs, whether a 550, 560, 750, 770, etc., sounded identical. They had great consistency back then. I've probably owned well over 100 at this point.

Same goes for my UV7s, they've all sounded essentially the same, minus two that really stood out.

1. I don't consider my RG320FM to be a low end Ibanez by any stretch considering its $600 CAD price tag when it was new. I'd say it's more mid ranged, though it honestly plays better than my prestige Ibby. Quite frankly my RG320FM puts a lot of RGs from 2007 onward to shame. My RGR121DX... yeah. No argument about low end. I bought it as a beater.

2. Don't take this as an insult as it's not meant to be. If you can't hear a difference in the guitars you're playing, you're listening only to the notes you play, not the guitar itself. Listen more closely and try to distinguish the different frequencies your guitars resonate through. You'll hear a difference in characteristics then.

Sorry, I'm going to have to call BS on this. I've played the JM and it sounds far closer to a couple ESP M-II models I've owned than any of my Fender or G&L Strats.

G&L's I find have completely different tonal charactistics than those of their predecessors in Fender. Aside from some playability issues, G&L's are solid guitars. You might find that strange considering they were made by Leo Fender, but I find G&L strats don't have that twang that Fender guitars do. Just what my ears hear...

The mahogany body and EMGs don't know that it says "Fender" on the headstock.

Doesn't this only further my saying that the twang doesn't come from the single coils?

Can you point out the twang here:

0:57 - 1:09 right stereo track.

Or here:

Right in the beginning dude. Opening riff.

They can sound similar, but it really depends on the exact models we're talking about. A Les Paul Custom 3P is going to sound significantly different than an SG Special P90.

No argument here.

Similar, not the same. Just like an Alder/Maple/Rosewood Strat (even with buckers) can sound quite different than an Alder/Maple/Rosewood JEM.

A guitar is the sum of everything that goes into it.

Also keeping in mind that wood density can vary depending on which part of the world the wood comes from. However, factor in the neck shape/thickness + headstock shape and amount of wood use, and you'll have different resonant frequencies. So quite possibly Fender found some magic formula for creating combinations of wood + hardware that give off that twang, but I just haven't heard one Fender guitar that doesn't have it. Again, it's just what my ears tell me.

 

[donray1527]

Gibson and Fender are great guitar manufactures and I will always vouch for them. I just bought my first gibby yesterday actually but have always enjoyed playing them. For me, the price tag isn't justified in the Lp standards and I think the should be 1800 or 2000 dollars at he most, but the customs and studio models are right on par with their price. The customs are super high end double bound pieces of art, while the lower end studios and whatnot are great work horses with similar qualities of their big brothers.
To me, I think you pay for three things aside from being USA made and the Gibson name when you buy one. You pay for sustain for DAYS, tuning stability, and reliability

 

[InfinityCollision]

They probably don't perceive much of a market for them, and honestly, I can't blame them.

The 7-string Sentinels that Rondo's been putting out lately have sold pretty well. Nothing by Fender's standards obviously, but Rondo's also a hell of a lot smaller. There's also a certain fandom around here regarding the Squier 7s. I can't speak to whether it's enough to warrant Fender making a 7-strat, but I really do believe there's a market for someone to offer them. Mind you I'm a bit biased...

 

[technomancer]

I think this is where we seem to getting confused on what the difference between a "clear coat" and "finish" is, possibly differing in opinion.

I don't argue that Ibby necks come with a poly based finish.

My distinction between a finish and clear coat is that a finish will still allow you to feel the texture of the wood on the back of the neck. The clear coat I'm talking about is what you see on most LP necks. It gives one uniform feeling throughout and can be glossy. I also feel a thin layer of this clear coat on Fenders as well which is enough to turn me off to it. The clear coat causes my fret hand to really drag along the neck where the finish that comes on most Ibanez guitars doesn't cause that.

I apologize if there was confusion regarding this.

That's not a differing opinion, you're using the term incorrectly. All of the necks you mention have a clear coat on them, Ibanez just uses a thin satin clear on their necks.

 

[Dooky]

So let's review some of the obviously well-thought-out and impartial reasons given for why Gibson and Fender suck...


4. Their necks are too fat.



/sarcasm

Haha, yeah, "their necks are too fat" always gives me the lulz
Back in the day, when I was all about the widdly-widdly and wang bar, I thought thin necks were the make of a great guitar. While I do still like some thin necks, I quickly learnt that a hell of a lot of tone comes from the neck and that a slightly fatter neck can add heaps too the overall tone of the guitar. Hence why I now have a Ibanez ARZ800 and Gibson Les Paul Custom in my collection and they are two of the best sounding guitars I own. As long as the neck profile is good, fatter necks can be quite comfy too.

 

[yingmin]

The 7-string Sentinels that Rondo's been putting out lately have sold pretty well. Nothing by Fender's standards obviously, but Rondo's also a hell of a lot smaller. There's also a certain fandom around here regarding the Squier 7s. I can't speak to whether it's enough to warrant Fender making a 7-strat, but I really do believe there's a market for someone to offer them. Mind you I'm a bit biased...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there isn't a market for them. I think it would absolutely be worth their whole to do, say, a run of maybe a couple hundred 7-string Strats, sell them at or not too far above US Std prices and see how it goes. However, I'm not an executive at Fender. I can certainly understand some trepidation on their part. Hell, this is a website literally dedicated to 7-string guitars, and what I perceive to be a pretty significant majority of members complain pretty regularly about Fender, and are far more interested in guitars that are as unlike standard Strats as possible while still being effectively the same shape.

 

[flint757]

I find Gibson to be good for Rock, Blues, SOME country, more or less the roots of music played on instruments. Fender - Jazz, Classic Rock, Country, Bluegrass... As far as translating into metal or more aggressive styles, I just don't happen to like the way that they sound in those genres. Even Matt Heafy's LP sound on the Trivium records I can't say I'm huge on.

Again, referring to above, I personally don't like the way those brands and models translate into aggressive styles.

Here's the thing though they CAN do aggressive tones, you just don't like it. I hate most Ibanez guitars I've played and EMG/active pickups, that doesn't equal bad for metal though.

Doesn't this only further my saying that the twang doesn't come from the single coils?

No it doesn't.

Also keeping in mind that wood density can vary depending on which part of the world the wood comes from. However, factor in the neck shape/thickness + headstock shape and amount of wood use, and you'll have different resonant frequencies. So quite possibly Fender found some magic formula for creating combinations of wood + hardware that give off that twang, but I just haven't heard one Fender guitar that doesn't have it. Again, it's just what my ears tell me.

I don't know where to begin. First of all if you are correct on your notion that all the pieces make up the 'twang' (maybe your definition of twang is just off ) then each variation of wood type/hardware would create or not create the twang sound. Same with the routing as well (swimming pool, direct mount, SSS route, tremolo, non-tremolo, etc.). I mean the fender shapes are used by countless companies and builders too and they don't all have the 'twang' sound obviously. There are 2 conclusions we can draw from this: either Fender does make guitars that don't have the 'twang' sound given the sheer variety that is achievable OR the twang does NOT come from the guitar, but the pickups .

I built a Warmoth 'Strat' out of Black Korina, Goncalo Alves, Pau Ferro, Wilkinson bridge, and Planet Wave tuners. None of that comes on ANY fender as far as I'm aware. First round I put a humbucker in and there was no 'twang' whatsoever to be found. Second go around I went the SSS route and voila twang galore. The 'twang' comes from the pickups and is only emphasized further by brighter guitars.

There are ways to emulate the sound I'm sure, but the original 'twang' sound came from guitars using single coil pup's.

 

[McBonez]

No.

Omgz EMG's and drop A# on a 24.75 scale! Impossible!

 

[Jakke]

Quote from a guy from Gibson Sweden on the Gibson acoustics:
"Weeell, they basically smell like a combination of wood shop class and a polish whore-house"

What's not to like?

 

[Forkface]

I generally dislike Gibson guitars because I've never felt that they're worth their pricetags.
Every time I try one I go "well, this is pretty nice, sounds good too, but 2k? nahh" I feel like you pay a lot of money just because it says "Gibson" on the headstock.

I have no beef with Fender

 

[Jakke]

I generally dislike Gibson guitars because I've never felt that they're worth their pricetags.
Every time I try one I go "well, this is pretty nice, sounds good too, but 2k? nahh" I feel like you pay a lot of money just because it says "Gibson" on the headstock.

I have no beef with Fender

Gibson Studios, some of the best bang for the buck there is

 

[Curt]

I agree, I have owned 2 gibby LP Studio's that played nearly every bit as good as the $3800 LPC that I had. (in my Travis Stever fanboy days. )

 

[McBonez]

I generally dislike Gibson guitars because I've never felt that they're worth their pricetags.
Every time I try one I go "well, this is pretty nice, sounds good too, but 2k? nahh" I feel like you pay a lot of money just because it says "Gibson" on the headstock.

I have no beef with Fender

I can tell you this - If my Eclipse was USA made and not Japanese made, I certainly wouldn't feel it was worth it's price, either.