So...Why do People Hate on Gibson and Fender Again?

[satchmo72]

I buy what works for me, I have tried to branch out and own a start or PRS but for me Ibanez is it. Not that Fenders and Gibsons are bad guitars, they just dont work for my playing style and tone choices.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

People don't really hate Gibson & Fenders. Wannabe elite metal misicians on a few forums do. These two companies still probably sell more guitars than *all* the other builders combined.

I guess some rant on them because, owning somethign else, they want:
-to appear like they made an educated choice.
-to give value to theur guitars
-Self justify the price they paid for another brand.

Fender and Gibson don't offer all specs, but the specs they offer are good and convenient for an awful lot of people. The Gibson and Fender artist roster isn't exactly small fry, either.


I'm extremely happy with my LP studio 60s goldtop reissue.

The reason the strat and LP are still there pretty much unmodified after 50 years is just that they were good designs to start with. It's a guitar, not a cello, you have a limited leeway in spec variation for it to still be a guitar.
I own a Gibson, two Fenders, ESPs, a custom pointy, two ibbies, and I like all of them.

The honest truth is, we could probably do with two solidbodies and be done with it, one with single coils and one with humbuckers. All the rest is nitpicking and self justification for GAS.

A comment so nice, it needed to be posted twice.

 

[Estilo]

People don't really hate Gibson & Fenders. Wannabe elite metal misicians on a few forums do. These two companies still probably sell more guitars than *all* the other builders combined.

I guess some rant on them because, owning somethign else, they want:
-to appear like they made an educated choice.
-to give value to theur guitars
-Self justify the price they paid for another brand.

The reason the strat and LP are still there pretty much unmodified after 50 years is just that they were good designs to start with.

I guess some really gave made educated choices realising that $4k for a LP with hit or miss quality makes shit sense. Now while a Gibby LP is no Epi LP, there are lots more things I would rather spend my $4k on.

Few would argue the strat and the LP are FANTASTIC designs. All the hate is towards FMIC and TGGC and largely due to their sky high yet unjustified pricing.

I don't hate FMIC that much though. I LOVE teles, the absolute best guitar neck I have every played was a Tele neck. I have even made a tribute thread to the Avril Lavigne Squier Tele here.

The honest truth is, we could probably do with two solidbodies and be done with it, one with single coils and one with humbuckers. All the rest is nitpicking and self justification for GAS.

I can't agree with this too. I think the minimum is 4. A 7, and 8, a 6 tuned to C#/ drop B and a 6 tuned to standard E/ drop D . And one of them has to be semi-hollow, one has to have a maple fretboard, one of the sixes has to have a floating bridge and the other 22 frets .

 

[Andromalia]

I guess some really gave made educated choices realising that $4k for a LP with hit or miss quality makes shit sense. Now while a Gibby LP is no Epi LP, there are lots more things I would rather spend my $4k on.

Well, that's why shops are for, honestly. You are not required to buy blind on a website. Yeah, it can be more expensive than ordering on internet. I'll be shopping for an explorer next week and I'll go to shops to make sure I get a good one. (which is likely a bad idea, as knowing me I'll come home with something else and still want an explorer...)

Also, note that if I had to keep one guitar only I'd keep the LP: as much as I love my custom it's one of the less versatile guitars I own. I love having it in an arsenal, but by itself it's not sufficient for all my needs.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I guess some really gave made educated choices realising that $4k for a LP with hit or miss quality makes shit sense. Now while a Gibby LP is no Epi LP, there are lots more things I would rather spend my $4k on.

Few would argue the strat and the LP are FANTASTIC designs. All the hate is towards FMIC and TGGC and largely due to their sky high yet unjustified pricing.

Outside of certain CS and Reissue stuff, both Gibson and Fender pricing is amazingly fair.

You can grab an honest to goodness, USA made, fully spec'd SG for $600 shipped. Gibson SGJ (Chocolate) | Sweetwater.com

Even Les Pauls aren't that expensive. Gibson Les Paul LPJ (Rubbed Goldtop dark back Satin) | Sweetwater.com

If you're referring to pricing in your part of the world, you can't really blame Gibson or Fender, they're not the ones applying tons of retail markup or asking for taxation on import.

 

[will_shred]

I hate Gibson's CEO with a passion because of his probably-corrupt business practices and his disgusting cozying-up to the Tea Party after the feds raided their factory.

But they still make some excellent guitars. I've got a LP and an SG and like them both a whole lot.

Fender doesn't make anything that I'm interested in buying, but they're perfectly fine for what they are. And at least they haven't messed with Jackson too much since the buyout.

that sums up my feels for both companies exactly

I have a serious weakness for Les Paul's despite their flaws (I.E. relatively fragile necks). I'll probably end up getting one sooner or later

 

[Stuck_in_a_dream]

Well, as many have said before me, in a word they are "dynasaurs", and they ought to be allowed to go extinct or EVOLVE into more robust species.

Gibson, extremely expensive compared to what's available now on the market. I'd take an ESP EC, or a Carvin CS any day over a Gibson LP even if I have to pay more for the non Gibson LP. LP clones are much more diverse, with a multitude of pickup/finish/scale length/bridge...etc. options. As for Fender, there is not a single feature in their Strats or Teles that has not been surpassed by other brands, none!

For me buying a Fender or a Gibson is a waste of $$$, sorry.

 

[Tom 1.0]

Well, as many have said before me, in a word they are "dynasaurs", and they ought to be allowed to go extinct or EVOLVE into more robust species.

 

[mcrdsd911]

No issues with gibson or fender guitars. Great guitars for some people, but their are guitars that play better for me. I dont care who plays them lol that doesn't push my decisions.

 

[Jzbass25]

I haven't been impressed by many Gibsons or Fenders, I don't really hate either but I don't see myself buying a Gibson probably ever unless it is some sweet ES model. I have a soft spot for strats being a big SRV fan but I prefer G&L and Suhr over Fender.

 

[arasys]

I think the main reason is, these two brands achieved such a huge brand awareness that people see them as "the guitars brands", and feel somewhat cheated when a cheaper guitar from a different brand turns out better than their gibsons or fenders.

In addition I believe these brands are somewhat known with being slow in terms of giving what people are asking from them for some time, especially in terms of customization etc.
And you know.. today people are even trying to customize their shoes. So not getting identical to what they have in mind can be another reason.


Let me give you an example: if Gibson comes up with a decent black explorer with emgs + fixed bridge without a pickguard, a lot of people wouldn't think twice before buying one.

Why ? 1st Gibson is associated with higher average quality ( in the past years, some people really hated the quality of their gibsons, but again there will always be rotten ones in an apple basket )

2nd the imaginary model I am talking about actually has a lot of demand but gibson either ignored the demand or came up with something little bit different from people have been asking for ( Gibson traditional explorer) . Yet on the other hand; some people dont hesitate to pay 6k for the same guitar from ESP custom shop.

Brands have their own characters, Gibson and Fender are somewhat known with traditional approach, and they can set the prices somewhat above the average while trusting their brand image.


Guitars are just like people, theyre all different, even some of the same model guitars may sound different. And people are looking for "the guitar" especially while spending $2000+.

I bought an ESP Alexi on sale for $1200, when I brought it home I felt cheated because it "fit me better" than my Jackson RR1 (which I paid $2000 in 2008) and I must say that ESP is slightly better in terms of craftsmanship..But that doesn't change the fact that Jackson is the first heavy metal guitar brand and equals "OMGSOKOOL!" for their target segment.

At the end, tastes are subjective, there will always be major or small details that will turn gold into turd. But this shouldn't stop the companies from trying for better guitar quality and market research.

 

[pawel]

Outside of certain CS and Reissue stuff, both Gibson and Fender pricing is amazingly fair.

This. You can pick up a new USA Standard Strat for less than a MIJ Prestige or an ESP Standard Series and they are very solid instruments (I've owned all three). Even the Mexican models offer pretty solid quality at the price point. Gibson currently offers some of the cheapest USA-made guitars on the market, if not the cheapest. I really don't get the complaints about prices.

Well, as many have said before me, in a word they are "dynasaurs", and they ought to be allowed to go extinct or EVOLVE into more robust species.

Well, that's the funny thing - Gibson tried to innovate (Robot, Min-ETune etc.) but their customers just want them to make more Les Pauls (and SGs, ES 335s, Explorers), so they do just that. And you really can't blame them for not producing the ultimate Les Paul for entry-level prices - they must give people some incentive to buy the big dollar models. If they sort out their QC and get their CEO to keep his thoughts to himself, I don't see how they do all that much wrong (other than the design of the Firebird X). Hell, they even introduced some moderately successful new designs (Midtown/Midtown Custom).

 

[ZEBOV]

Gibson doesn't have anything that would suit my needs except for maybe a baritone guitar, but I sure wouldn't want that to be a Les Paul. I don't mind Fender at all though. I'm not a huge fan of the look of any Fender, but I'll someday own a Fender bass because of their wide range of tones.

 

[Capelo]

No hate here either. I like both brands although I currently don't own a guitar from either company. In my case, I simply find other designs more comfortable/suitable to what I play, especially EBMM Axis. Thanks Eddie!!

 

[Andromalia]

Well, that's the funny thing - Gibson tried to innovate (Robot, Min-ETune etc.) but their customers just want them to make more Les Pauls

Not necessarily, but innovation for the sake of change isn't very appealing if it doesn't bring something to the table. Ok, a guitar that can tune itself, woot, how have I managed for all those years ?
See the almost overwhelming positive response to the evertune bridge, which brings a solution to an existing problem.

At some point, an instrument specs become more or less fixed and it stops evolving. You don't hear violin players complaining the violin didn't evolve since 1750. The most important area of research today imho is about alternatives to wood, not the technical specs of the instrument itself, except maybe that Line 6 modeling thingy (don't remember the guitar line name) which in the end could make the pickups irrelevant.

 

[TemjinStrife]

I don't hate them, but the value for money proposition is screwed.

When I decided I wanted a Strat, I played almost two dozen Fenders, ranging from Squiers to American Standards, and while there were gems in there (and almost every one was a solid guitar), none of them felt as nice or sounded as good as a used G&L Legacy Tribute that I ended up snagging for $300.

Similarly, there are great LP-ish options for much less than a good LP Standard will cost you.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Not necessarily, but innovation for the sake of change isn't very appealing if it doesn't bring something to the table.

Look up the Digital Les Paul and Dusk Tiger models. The work made in mating hexaphonic/MIDI pickups with traditional magnetic pickups makes the last 20 years of Roland's stuff look like child's play.

Remember the Smartwood series? Gibson using tons of lesser known, non-endangered species to make guitars out of. Great stuff.

 

[Don Vito]

They've had their time. Gibson has much better propensity towards heavier styles but Fenders haven't been pushed much farther than in the days of Iron Maiden. Both kinds of guitar are still widely used in mainstream acts (although PRS seems to be taking those over as well), i.e. when the music doesn't require anything ground-breaking or new from a guitar then you're likely to see a Fender or Gibson somewhere behind the spotlight.
We're so familiar with their look and sound that they just seem to provide very little potential for improvement or change.

Now on tour with Katy Perry.

 

[Veritech Zero]

I wouldn't say I hate them either, but the last time Fender made anything that remotely interested me was their HM strats from the late 80s early 90s.

And the last time Gibson made anything I wanted was... wait, have they ever made a long scale explorer or V?

 

[pushpull7]

When I see many gibson prices, I'm pretty blown away by how much they want. I don't know where people get all this money but it hasn't scared away business so more power to 'em I say.

I can't afford that shit. I barely have a house.