Some food for thought on dialing in your amps...

[Guitarjon]

Something came to mind regarding how people dial in their amps and amp models and I figured I'd talk about it for a sec.

A lot of times I see people complaining online about their amps "sounding bad" while they're afraid to stray to far from the noon/middle positions. Of course not ALL of the time, but I do see it quite often. At least, people are subconciously afraid to stray too far from the middle. I've also fallen victim of this sort of habit in the past. In one case I just got a new amp, my ENGL Fireball 100, which is one of my favorite amps, and I wasn't completely satisfied with the tone until a friend suggested that I pushed the mids and treble to more extremes and tone down the presence. Pretty far from the noon positions but I tried it and it sounded SOOOOO much better! For some reason in my mind I thought that the amp "sounded how it supposed to sound with all the controls at noon". However, some amps and amp models really come to life when you try some more extreme settings.

The ENGL fireball is a great example because some people online like to claim that "ENGLs get lost in the mix". But I believe that it's likely due to the fact that people aren't dialing them in to reach their full sonic potential. Try it with the Fireball model in the Helix. The response of the pots isn't exactly the same as on my amp but the effect will be very similar.

Another great example is the Boogie Mark series amps. For chunky modern high-gain rock/metal tones these amps need some pretty extreme settings to sound great. My Mark V35 really has that going on. Turning the treble to 10 and mids + bass to 0 really makes it sound much tighter (not taking into account the graphic EQ). On the Axe Fx's Mark models and Cali IV Lead in the Helix, try some more extreme settings with the EQ to see what happens.

I made a little video on this with some sound examples so you can hear and see what I'm talking about. Have you fallen into this trap? What amp comes to mind that needs more extreme settings for it to sound good? Discuss!

 

[laxu]

I feel like the bigger mistake is that people try to dial every amp using the same principles even though most amps have totally different tone stacks, possibly even in different places in the circuit. E.g a Bogner Shiva will require generally higher treble settings because it has much less high end than a typical Marshall. On top of that passive tone stacks tend to be interactive. More treble, less effect the mids and bass knobs have and vice versa.

Mesa Mark series are an exception in the first place as few amps have both an EQ close to the input (knobs) as well as later in the preamp circuit (graphic EQ). The knobs are more like "distortion flavor" settings and the amps have a gobsmacking amount of midrange which is why you see those mid controls turned way, way down.

Similarly e.g the BluGuitar stuff operates in a very different way where its bass and treble knobs are shelving filters and the actual tone stacks are preset internally.

Using your ears is the best way as your eyes have bad hearing and you will tend to want to keep things closer to the middle positions.

And before someone suggest it, no, turning all knobs to 10 does not make for a more "pure" tone. A flat EQ on typical passive tone stacks is closer to treble and bass on zero, mids on 10.

 

[ExMachina]

You should show some before and after plots of the spectrum. I'm going to guess that you're finding ways to globally eq the amps to a curve you find preferable. I think a lot of guitarists would benefit from being able to turn the knobs and see how it affects the spectrum, also doing a tone match exercise is a fun and a good way to find settings.

 

[Guitarjon]

You should show some before and after plots of the spectrum. I'm going to guess that you're finding ways to globally eq the amps to a curve you find preferable. I think a lot of guitarists would benefit from being able to turn the knobs and see how it affects the spectrum, also doing a tone match exercise is a fun and a good way to find settings.

Could be interesting but that wouldn't show the change in gain response so it wouldn't be a complete way of making the differences visible.

I feel like the bigger mistake is that people try to dial every amp using the same principles even though most amps have totally different tone stacks, possibly even in different places in the circuit. E.g a Bogner Shiva will require generally higher treble settings because it has much less high end than a typical Marshall. On top of that passive tone stacks tend to be interactive. More treble, less effect the mids and bass knobs have and vice versa.

Mesa Mark series are an exception in the first place as few amps have both an EQ close to the input (knobs) as well as later in the preamp circuit (graphic EQ). The knobs are more like "distortion flavor" settings and the amps have a gobsmacking amount of midrange which is why you see those mid controls turned way, way down.

Similarly e.g the BluGuitar stuff operates in a very different way where its bass and treble knobs are shelving filters and the actual tone stacks are preset internally.

Using your ears is the best way as your eyes have bad hearing and you will tend to want to keep things closer to the middle positions.

And before someone suggest it, no, turning all knobs to 10 does not make for a more "pure" tone. A flat EQ on typical passive tone stacks is closer to treble and bass on zero, mids on 10.

Very good points! Agreed!

 

[TedEH]

You should show some before and after plots of the spectrum

If anything, I think the spirit of the video is the opposite of this. Showing spectral analysis of different amps isn't going to tell you how the amp is going to respond to each control, and you're not going to have access to that analysis when you're at jams or on stage or whatever else - so at the end of the day, you still need to learn to dial with your ears instead of your eyes.

 

[bostjan]

How 13 year old me dialed in my amp:
1. ALL THE GAIN!!!!
2. ALL THE BASS!!!!
3. NO MIDS!!!!!~!!!!
4. Treble to taste.
5. Add a distortion pedal:
A. ALL THE GAIIIIN!!!!!1!!
B. ALL THE VOLUME!!!!
C. ALL THE TOAN!!!!!
6. Amp volume to taste.

How 19 year old me dialed in my amp:
1. Set everything to noon
2. Adjust to taste

How 30 year old me dialed in my amp:
1. Look up amp online.
2. Find example settings.
3. Try those
4. Take whichever sounded best, and tweak from there.

How 40 year old me dialed in tone:
1. Fuck it, it sounds fine however it was set before I turned it on.

 

[Chri]

Jon, do you have any suggestions for getting the Helix Fireball to sound more like the FB100? That was definitely my favorite amp that I owned and used settings very similar to yours in this example. I’ve found the Helix model to be pretty underwhelming, though, but I’d love to give it a proper deep dive if there are any “tricks” to it.

 

[Guitarjon]

Jon, do you have any suggestions for getting the Helix Fireball to sound more like the FB100? That was definitely my favorite amp that I owned and used settings very similar to yours in this example. I’ve found the Helix model to be pretty underwhelming, though, but I’d love to give it a proper deep dive if there are any “tricks” to it.

Good question! It doesn't sound exactly like my FB100, I have tried to dial it in a couple times. I can get it to sound pretty good though. I'll have to do a video on this one day

 

[eaeolian]

If it's a Mesa or something like the Blu amps, where the topography is different, RTFM, then turn the knobs until it sounds good.
If it's a Marshall-based amp that isn't a Recto, turn the knobs until it sounds good.
If it's a 5150/6505, turn it on.

 

[budda]

Great post. Ears not eyes!

 

[MASS DEFECT]

Also, don't be afraid to push the bass and mid knobs a bit more on Mark amps. It gives them more body. I rarely use bass 0 and mids 0 on mine. Sounds uber tight but a bit thin.

 

[Guitarjon]

Also, don't be afraid to push the bass and mid knobs a bit more on Mark amps. It gives them more body. I rarely use bass 0 and mids 0 on mine. Sounds uber tight but a bit thin.

Yeah, sometimes that works. It just depends on the pickups, riffs etc.

 

[TedEH]

RTFM

So much of this. For every time someone says Marks are hard to dial in - the manual does a pretty good job of explaining why the amp acts the way it does.

+1 when using modellers too. Not having the physical amp in front of you means you're at a loss (or advantage?) of not having the physical shape of the device to hint at how you're supposed to use it, so you have to either read up on how the real amps work, or put in the time and listen to what each thing does. Those Yek's Guides for Fractal stuff has been super handy.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

Great post. Ears not eyes!

Came here to say this. I saw someone dispensing similar advice years ago, I think of it often and sometimes actually close my eyes.

I don't even feel comfortable operating a pedal or amp until I know what it does at every extreme of its parameters. I spend a lot of time turning everything to zero and then turning up one knob at a time, playing with knobs together to see how they interact, etc etc. Especially on wild delays and such, this is really important. Knowing how to regain control when something starts self-oscillating, how it started in the first place, etc.

In a somewhat ironic twist, this in fact allows me to turn the knobs with my eyes, returning settings "close enough" to where they need to be after a trip to a gig, being borrowed, etc, instead of having to dick around onstage droning away and fiddling knobs. It's also had the result that I can quickly dial in a usable tone on an unfamiliar amp because I will go through a quick and dirty process of exploring the settings one knob at a time.

While there is no universal truth to dialing in amps, I will say I've never in my life met a mids knob I didn't crank the shit out of. I wish all amps had a parametric mid control.

 

[lurè]

I use bass on 0 on my Mark IV but mids are always between 5 and 7, otherwise it sounds too thin for my tastes; also I've never put presence past 3.

 

[eaeolian]

Eve

Also, don't be afraid to push the bass and mid knobs a bit more on Mark amps. It gives them more body. I rarely use bass 0 and mids 0 on mine. Sounds uber tight but a bit thin.

Every time I've used a Mark, I've found the "bass about halfway, mids more than halfway, and scoop out the mids with the EQ to taste" method works pretty well.

 

[MASS DEFECT]

Eve

Every time I've used a Mark, I've found the "bass about halfway, mids more than halfway, and scoop out the mids with the EQ to taste" method works pretty well.

Recently, John Petrucci released a video of his new JP2C settings because he somehow RTFM just now. His mids now are at one o'clock and bass slightly above 9 o'clock. I never knew I can get the amp to sound fatter just by going above noon on the mid knob.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

Recently, John Petrucci released a video of his new JP2C settings because he somehow RDFM just now. His mids now are at one o'clock and bass slightly above 9 o'clock. I never knew I can get the amp to sound fatter just by going above noon on the mid knob.

Never don't crank the mids for a fat tone, my dude.

"and this knob controls the temperature of the sun"

 

[Dr. Caligari]

Cranked mids sound honky and bad and makes it so you take over the entire mix and walk all over the other instruments. If you're playing a solo then fine, turn them up a bit so you can be heard but for rhythm/riff stuff a lot of mids doesn't sound good and doesn't help the band as a whole sound good.

 

[Dumple Stilzkin]

With my amps I’ve found it’s best to start with everything at noon and just take the time to tweak it, learn how the knobs interact with each other until you find what works best. I have one amp where it sounds best with bass damn near dimed, the mids really low, and the highs up. At first I thought wait, that’s not how you get a good tone. But in the end my ears won out and I left it how I thought it sounded best, it’s scooped on paper but sounds pretty damn good and not muddy.