Song writing help

[RenegadeDave]

I'm one of those players who spends WAY too much time on technique. I've practiced to click tracks, but my new preferred method is to take passages of songs I like that are difficult in Guitar Pro and slow it down on repeat and play it repetitively (same type of deal as a metronome, but practicing something else).

On to the issue. I'm a perfectionist by nature, so for the first couple of years since I started playing more seriously (started in on guitar after a 10 year hiatus in summer of 2006). My technical ability is nearly there, and I know I should be writing. When I just noodle, I can come up with some pretty stock thrash riffs and decent rhythm tracks, no problem. But the brick wall I always slam against is composing melodies.

Do you have any references that helped you start writing melodies? Books would be great, any web articles are great too. For background: I know all the modes of the major scale, I can look at charts to figure out keys and the like, but I need help practicing my creativity. Obviously it's not fluid.

Back to the perfectionist bit, I'm terrified of writing "bad" music, but I recognize that song writing is like any other skill, you get better at it the more you use it. I need to try harder to listen to that little voice inside of me and actually create rather than just be a mimic.

So does anyone have a really good book they can recommend? I have the berklee guitar method book, but have had a hard time actually sitting down and practicing it. I live in a small apartment with a wife and a parrot. My wife is a terrible distraction to sitting down and practicing from the book (working @ my DAW w/ big studio monitor ear phones faced away from her, she typically leaves me alone). Any help is appreciated.

Thanks in advance guys!

 

[telecaster90]

That I know of, there's no books about writing melodies. You just gotta hear it. Start listening is the best advice I can give you

 

[N-j]

personally i would not read any book, write a good rhythm track, then just practice writing melody over the top. you know your scales, which is all good, but remember, scales, modes and all that shiz are not the be all and end all, i usually just write by ear rather then follow theory. if it sounds good thats all that matters.

from personal experience, skip the book and get wrtiting, just keep on writing, you will get better.

 

[dorfmeister]

Don't know if this would be all that useful or not but it is a book about Melody in Songwriting written by a guy that teaches at Berklee.

Melody in songwriting: tools and ... - Google Books

 

[JohnIce]

I'd recommend listening to melodic music, for sure. Listen and learn. Anything with catchy choruses. Also, singing has helped me tremendously because the vocal lines are usually the most melodic part of a song, so it's good learn from. I'd definately recommend that. I basically write all my melodies, vocal or instrumental, by singing.

 

[Mr. Big Noodles]

I find that melodies that make harmonic sense typically sound pretty good. Obviously, there are many songwriters out there who have never taken a single harmony lesson, but if you open up a songbook, you'll usually find that classical, jazz, and rock guys are doing the same exact thing. That said, if you can get down how to write a chord progression and insert some non-chord tones in a way that makes sense, a decent melody is not that far off. I struggled with writing melodies for some time, but I've found that this method works best for me. The rhythm and non-chord tones are the most difficult part in this approach, but they make the difference between a good melody and a sucky one. There are plenty of books and other sources of education on this stuff.

As far as modal writing goes, I find it's too easy to end up with a mediocre melody if there's no sense of propulsion in the music (i.e. a chord progression). It can work pretty effectively over a single chord, though.

 

[TonalArchitect]

Okay, first thing I would do is to stop thinking of composing as if it were a technique!

They really are two different worlds as far as I know. With technique, you can practice an easy figure until its second nature and progressively work your way to very difficult figures. But with composition, it's not as if you can write four shitty awful riffs, then progress to only decent ones, then to only pretty good ones, and then to only (or mostly) great ones.

It ebbs and flows. Some days you'll be full of inspiration and you might toss off tons of riffs that are catchy, fit well together, and are interesting to listen to (e.g. not boring over time). But other days, you're likely to find that only stale, contrived, boring-ass music will come out.

If we must liken it to practice, it's like the "off days" where your fingers don't seem to obey, except often much more severe. There is no soldiering through composition-- that will either guarantee that either you or everyone else in the world (likely both) will not like the end result.

You need inspiration; don't count on sitting down, raising a flag with an eighth note on it and proclaiming "I am going to write music!"

So advice for becoming inspired?

1.) Listen to music. Anything you like, anything that leaves you with a sort of "buzzed" feeling that gives you ideas or makes you want to sit down and create.

2.) Listen to/study different kinds of music. Jazz and classical music are obvious choices. Dig traditional Indian, African, Balinese, and Arabic music. You may not want to write something for a drum circle (ala Africa), but it may inspire you rhythmically or (via singing) melodically, even if you're not going for an "ethnic" vibe.

3.) Take some music theory and composition courses to learn form. Learning how and attempting to write a fugue or something in Sonata Form will help generate ideas/ facilitate fun messing around. Sometimes it's good to impose constraints to inspire creativity-- but also remember to break any and every rule if you need to creatively (not out of inability).

4.) Enjoy other art. Films, paintings, photography, books, poetry, philosophy, plays. Either dabble in them or just enjoy/admire them. A great source of inspiration.

5.) Try writing away from the instrument. You have Guitar Pro, just compose on that, not by messing around on the guitar. This will help you avoid those playing cliches we all tend to develop (e.g. "I always end up playing the same licks/riffs!").

6.) Take a break. As said before, you can't soldier through it without inspiration (though it might be difficult enough when you're inspired that it feels like you're soldiering through!), so take breaks. Instead of rushing to finish a piece, let it sit. Work on other pieces, take time off from music (as opposed to obsessing about a riff). Give your work time and let it breathe.

8.) Take up another instrument. This doesn't mean going batshit insane, full-bore, must-become-a-virtuoso-on-the-damn-thing in your practice, but if you learn to play paradiddles on the drums, you might get a better appreciation of how to use them (either for kit grooves or for marching rhythms).

Above all, try to hear a composition in your head. More often then not, it should (I think) come to you. A melody, rhythm, harmony, section-of-song, or whatever might just pop into your head, or you may just get a feeling like you need to pick up the guitar and it'll come to you. Even if it's not quite perfect when it comes out, you can revise it later, but create it now.

 

[RenegadeDave]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Keep em coming, I'm looking for a lot of different approaches so I can figure out what works best for me

 

[dorfmeister]

Ricky Rooksby has a decent set of books about songwriting. I forgot that he had one that focused on melody.

Amazon.com: Melody: How to Write Great Tunes (9780879308193): Rooksby R: Books

I think books can be a great help. You get some insight into another songwriter's creative process.

 

[jymellis]

thats awesome news! i just strted back afetr a 10 year break lol. my problem when writing and recodring is that i go blanck or my drum programming skills are for shit. i usually program a hihat or crash cymbol and use it as a metronome. after i have recorded my guitar to the "metronome" i go back and progam the drums to fit my guitar. i find that making it up on the fly works better than trying to actually sit down with the intentions of writing guitar riffs.

 

[RenegadeDave]

Ricky Rooksby has a decent set of books about songwriting. I forgot that he had one that focused on melody.

Amazon.com: Melody: How to Write Great Tunes (9780879308193): Rooksby R: Books

I think books can be a great help. You get some insight into another songwriter's creative process.

Good recommendation!

 

[Ryan-ZenGtr-]

I 2nd TonalArchitect's contribution!

I find that the best approach is to pretty much finish the rythmns and arrangement, then sing/hum/imagine a melody in your mind and translate it through your hands to the guitar, overdub it then give it to your singer as a guide approach...

One thing that might help is: when I used to walk home from school ( a long walk, BTW ) I used to pass the time by imagining music. It started off basic, but eventually I could listen to the whole band with my imagination.

Once I got technique on my guitar, I forgot to use this approach to write and let my hands do their thing. Once I got comfortable with my home recording setup, I remembered that my inspiration was my best source of material, not my hands regurgitating technical excercises...

So I would hum a melody into the microphone, then try to learn it on guitar. That is how some jazz is done, with transcriptions of vocal phrases, as those cats are transcription fiends, unlike most guitar players.

Normally my approach is:
1. A riff which satisfies my need for challenging guitar whilst still shocking and rocking.
2. A boring verse but still action packed
3. A melodic chorus with a little inventive guitar technique
4. A bridge or guitar section with something from the theme running through it.

Then I record all that and arrange and mix it. then I jam over it a few times, find what I like and use that as a guide for vocal melodies (I still use melodies, not grunting) and guitar solos/motifs.

I use a computer for all my writing, as by the time I'm finished, it is a professional demo, rather than bits of paper etc. and having to record it anyway. With the PC I can audition parts, write parts for other musicians and try several arrangements or synths/fx/atmospherics very easily... However I always make the songs a little complex because it's easy to overdo it with a PC DAW.

Anyway, good luck!

 

[lnname]

I 2nd TonalArchitect's contribution!

One thing that might help is: when I used to walk home from school ( a long walk, BTW ) I used to pass the time by imagining music. It started off basic, but eventually I could listen to the whole band with my imagination.
!

no way!

me too!

...

Melodies are a well documented subject, although writting good metal melodies is not.

For melodies in general google the word mode, and you can learn about how they developed over history, but for metal:

My advise is to take tonal(ie with a major scale or mode) melodies and harmonise them with rich implied chords e.g. rather than harmonising a melody that oscilates between your 1st and 3rd with their chords and doing somekind of riff that links the 6th and 7th.

or

Take an atonal(i use octotonics a lot for this) melody, then work out which notes are played most, and then which chords are implied most and construct a backing based on the implicit harmonies.

 

[TonalArchitect]

We've had a lot of focus on melodies, but that doesn't have to be the focus of the music. Complex rhythms, harmonic tomfoolery, and rich textures of tone color are not only important, but can be the centerpiece.

Whether you like them or not (though many of us on this board do), Meshuggah's music has a massive absence of melody in comparison to, say most hard rock and much metal. Not everyone might "get" the music, but that'll happen no matter what you do.

 

[Bloody_Inferno]

We've had a lot of focus on melodies, but that doesn't have to be the focus of the music. Complex rhythms, harmonic tomfoolery, and rich textures of tone color are not only important, but can be the centerpiece.

Whether you like them or not (though many of us on this board do), Meshuggah's music has a massive absence of melody in comparison to, say most hard rock and much metal. Not everyone might "get" the music, but that'll happen no matter what you do.

Sometimes the best melodies written are the most simple. To add to this, you can add all the rich complex harmony/chord progressions and such under a very simple melody and can still sound cool. And vice versa. Really, there are no real rules other than making it sound good to your ears.

Also, it may have already been said a few times, but in terms of using scales, try to view scales as sounds and flavours rather than just patterns. Greats like Vai and Gambale will concur to this: say Ionian = happy, Dorian = snow/adventurous etc. That way of viewing scales, chords and modes enhance what kind of musical mood you're trying to capture.

 

[6o66er]

Good info all around here! I was actually coming to post a question similar to this, as I'm having difficulties myself with a lot of these things.

Any more tips on the time factor involved? I think a big part of my problem is that I get so worked up over getting it 'DONE!' that I may be ruining my own work in the end...any advice on this just from experience?

 

[JohnIce]

Okay, first thing I would do is to stop thinking of composing as if it were a technique!

They really are two different worlds as far as I know. With technique, you can practice an easy figure until its second nature and progressively work your way to very difficult figures. But with composition, it's not as if you can write four shitty awful riffs, then progress to only decent ones, then to only pretty good ones, and then to only (or mostly) great ones.

It ebbs and flows. Some days you'll be full of inspiration and you might toss off tons of riffs that are catchy, fit well together, and are interesting to listen to (e.g. not boring over time). But other days, you're likely to find that only stale, contrived, boring-ass music will come out.

If we must liken it to practice, it's like the "off days" where your fingers don't seem to obey, except often much more severe. There is no soldiering through composition-- that will either guarantee that either you or everyone else in the world (likely both) will not like the end result.

You need inspiration; don't count on sitting down, raising a flag with an eighth note on it and proclaiming "I am going to write music!"

So advice for becoming inspired?

1.) Listen to music. Anything you like, anything that leaves you with a sort of "buzzed" feeling that gives you ideas or makes you want to sit down and create.

2.) Listen to/study different kinds of music. Jazz and classical music are obvious choices. Dig traditional Indian, African, Balinese, and Arabic music. You may not want to write something for a drum circle (ala Africa), but it may inspire you rhythmically or (via singing) melodically, even if you're not going for an "ethnic" vibe.

3.) Take some music theory and composition courses to learn form. Learning how and attempting to write a fugue or something in Sonata Form will help generate ideas/ facilitate fun messing around. Sometimes it's good to impose constraints to inspire creativity-- but also remember to break any and every rule if you need to creatively (not out of inability).

4.) Enjoy other art. Films, paintings, photography, books, poetry, philosophy, plays. Either dabble in them or just enjoy/admire them. A great source of inspiration.

5.) Try writing away from the instrument. You have Guitar Pro, just compose on that, not by messing around on the guitar. This will help you avoid those playing cliches we all tend to develop (e.g. "I always end up playing the same licks/riffs!").

6.) Take a break. As said before, you can't soldier through it without inspiration (though it might be difficult enough when you're inspired that it feels like you're soldiering through!), so take breaks. Instead of rushing to finish a piece, let it sit. Work on other pieces, take time off from music (as opposed to obsessing about a riff). Give your work time and let it breathe.

8.) Take up another instrument. This doesn't mean going batshit insane, full-bore, must-become-a-virtuoso-on-the-damn-thing in your practice, but if you learn to play paradiddles on the drums, you might get a better appreciation of how to use them (either for kit grooves or for marching rhythms).

Above all, try to hear a composition in your head. More often then not, it should (I think) come to you. A melody, rhythm, harmony, section-of-song, or whatever might just pop into your head, or you may just get a feeling like you need to pick up the guitar and it'll come to you. Even if it's not quite perfect when it comes out, you can revise it later, but create it now.

I agree with most of this. But I'll have to add one thing though (which you may or may not agree with).

Songwriting is a skill, just like playing an instrument. You can (and should) practice it by both writing a lot of music and by analyzing songs. Not in the way of learning them note for note, but learning the chords and understanding how they work in the key and so on. The more of this that you learn, the more you can use in your songwriting.

I think that a good songwriter should be able to do a decent job on command. Might not be a masterpiece, but at least decent and listenable. Some artists have one hit and then never manage to do it again, while some artists enjoy decades of platinum-selling records. That's because good, consistent songwriting isn't about luck, it's about skill.

My first songs were mostly horrible (with some gems, sure), but I've been at it for 6-7 years now and now I can in most cases turn any ideas I get into good, presentable songs. Some take longer to finish, yes, but there's a limit to how much you can depend on luck and inspiration.

I definately agree that inspiration is important, but I just want to point out that songwriting is also very much a skill that you can learn, practice, develop and perfect just like anything else in music.

 

[Mr. Big Noodles]

We've had a lot of focus on melodies, but that doesn't have to be the focus of the music. Complex rhythms, harmonic tomfoolery, and rich textures of tone color are not only important, but can be the centerpiece.

Whether you like them or not (though many of us on this board do), Meshuggah's music has a massive absence of melody in comparison to, say most hard rock and much metal. Not everyone might "get" the music, but that'll happen no matter what you do.

+1

One of the things I like about Meshuggah's music is that a lot of the time, it's just gestures. That's a very important element of music since the twentieth century: some things can only be described as a sound. Melodies are all fine and good, but they can only express so much. There's nothing like one of those microtonal clusters that Krzysztof Penderecki loves so much to send shivers down your spine, and rhythmic motives are the basis for a large part of Beethoven's music. The trick is to use these ideas in the correct context - it's just vocabulary, and if it's out of place, people will know (I heard a girl use the word "privy" about a thousand times today without ever making sense ). A lyrical melody isn't going to fit in a song about running over babies with a lawn mower, just as that five octave diminished arpeggio over a double kick isn't something that comes to mind when you think love and flowers. And I'm venturing to guess that most people don't turn on the radio to listen to this:

 

[Daggorath]

Melody... one of the few things on guitar I'm not too bad at. What you've gotta do is not be too notey. Practice writing little phrases with 2 or 3 notes and change up the ryhythm and order of the notes until you find something appealing.

Another thing to do is to write without a guitar in your hand, then pick it up when you have something decent, then work it out on guitar. Sounds dumb but I always find my creativity limited by playing the guitar as I nearly always ramble on till I "find" something ok. And it's only ok.

 

[TonalArchitect]

I agree with most of this. But I'll have to add one thing though (which you may or may not agree with).

Songwriting is a skill, just like playing an instrument. You can (and should) practice it by both writing a lot of music and by analyzing songs. Not in the way of learning them note for note, but learning the chords and understanding how they work in the key and so on. The more of this that you learn, the more you can use in your songwriting.

I think that a good songwriter should be able to do a decent job on command. Might not be a masterpiece, but at least decent and listenable. Some artists have one hit and then never manage to do it again, while some artists enjoy decades of platinum-selling records. That's because good, consistent songwriting isn't about luck, it's about skill.

My first songs were mostly horrible (with some gems, sure), but I've been at it for 6-7 years now and now I can in most cases turn any ideas I get into good, presentable songs. Some take longer to finish, yes, but there's a limit to how much you can depend on luck and inspiration.

I definately agree that inspiration is important, but I just want to point out that songwriting is also very much a skill that you can learn, practice, develop and perfect just like anything else in music.

I didn't mean to suggest that one wouldn't improve with time, but just that you won't become a world-class composer by hammering it out, i.e. you'll be technically able to compose lots of stuff "well," but it may lack anything actually interesting.