Speed picking tips??

[distressed_romeo]

No rush, I'd just like to see how far it goes because if I can start getting the same 'pop' in economy that I get in alternate I might start using it more often.

Jeff

Just a thought...have you tried experimenting with different styles of muting? You might find that a subtle palm mute near the bridge (not a full on mutola though) will give the notes a little more punch when you're economy picking. That can determine the stacatto/legato quality of your playing just as much as the combination of picked and slurred notes...

 

[Cancer]

I remember reading that the last time you posted it here.

It's an EXCELLENT article, but with one caveat - Tuck's a brilliant jazz player, and a very technically accomplished guitarist in his own right, but part of what needs to be understood here is that this article is accordingly not without context.

That, in a nutshell, is PRECISELY why I love that article. Of course there are different styles of picking for different styles of guitar music, but in this instance there is enough significant overlap to give that article more than enough merit. Perhaps if shred were not redefinied by the inclusion of classical and jazz players in the 80's, things would be different, but luckily a few brave soul crossed over into rock and metal during that time period, and bought their finely honed techniques with them, so now we can all benefit. Some of the techniques I don't even AGREE with on a personal level (like the Benson technique of bending your thumb backward... It works like charm, but it hurts me so, I abandoned it, apparently so did Gilbert so go figure...), but I love the Tuck summed it up on one page, I wish this acticle was around when I used to teach.

 

[Drew]

You totally missed my point - it's not about applying technique from one genre to another, but rather that what might be a tonal benefit for one genre may not work for another, dude.

 

[JBroll]

Just a thought...have you tried experimenting with different styles of muting? You might find that a subtle palm mute near the bridge (not a full on mutola though) will give the notes a little more punch when you're economy picking. That can determine the stacatto/legato quality of your playing just as much as the combination of picked and slurred notes...

Oh yes - I'm a huge DiMeola freak, I use that a lot. The problem is that when I'm playing acoustics without amplification I often have to get fast runs done as loud as possible, and no amount of muting will help you cut through when the problem is that you're picking half as hard as you should be.

 

[The Dark Wolf]

Oh yes - I'm a huge DiMeola freak, I use that a lot. The problem is that when I'm playing acoustics without amplification I often have to get fast runs done as loud as possible, and no amount of muting will help you cut through when the problem is that you're picking half as hard as you should be.

#1 *sigh* We know you're Jeff. There's a field where you can put your real name in the user profile.

#2. I get what Jeff's saying. When he said "pop", it made sense. Alternate picking allows you to get a degree of oomph and control with the initial pick attack that isn't as easy (or possible?) using the smoother, more legato-sounding economy picking. I agree.

 

[JBroll]

#1 *sigh* We know you're Jeff. There's a field where you can put your real name in the user profile.

#2. I get what Jeff's saying. When he said "pop", it made sense. Alternate picking allows you to get a degree of oomph and control with the initial pick attack that isn't as easy (or possible?) using the smoother, more legato-sounding economy picking. I agree.

#1 It's a habit I just haven't gotten out of breaking. Other people get signatures, I just remind myself of my name as often as I need to in order to keep from forgetting it.

#2 I'm glad it made sense to someone else, too - if it's possible to get an attack to be as powerful with economy as it is with alternate, I'll be much more inclined to incorporate more economy picking. This brings me to another question, now that I think about it - does higher tension, and the resulting increase in resistance from the string(s), allow a harder attack with economy picking?

 

[sakeido]

As far as speed picking goes, I've moved away from using my wrist entirely now. It is all fingers all the way, and I just use my wrist for sweeps and to "change tracks" from one string to another. I used to just do triplets with my fingers but lately have been working on tremolo picking like that and it sounds just as good. If I really really want to dig in on tremolos, I will use my elbow still though.

To get around the problem of the pick getting caught on the strings, I use my middle finger to anchor as well as lift my hand the exact amount away from the guitar so that I can vary my impact and speed. Its a bit of a trade off at first, but with practice I am able to dig in more and more as my fingers get faster.

 

[distressed_romeo]

#1 It's a habit I just haven't gotten out of breaking. Other people get signatures, I just remind myself of my name as often as I need to in order to keep from forgetting it.

#2 I'm glad it made sense to someone else, too - if it's possible to get an attack to be as powerful with economy as it is with alternate, I'll be much more inclined to incorporate more economy picking. This brings me to another question, now that I think about it - does higher tension, and the resulting increase in resistance from the string(s), allow a harder attack with economy picking?

Jeff

Wait, your tension level is higher when economy picking than when alternate picking? I'm the complete opposite (hence my preference for economy when soloing), which could explain why we seem to have arrived at totally opposing conclusions...

 

[JBroll]

No, I'm asking if you can exert more force on the string when they're at higher tensions before you start losing control. My comfort and muscle tension is the same for both, I just prefer the attack variety of alternate picking; I'm asking if using bigger strings changes the volume you can get away with while economy picking.

 

[The Dark Wolf]

No, I'm asking if you can exert more force on the string when they're at higher tensions before you start losing control. My comfort and muscle tension is the same for both, I just prefer the attack variety of alternate picking; I'm asking if using bigger strings changes the volume you can get away with while economy picking.

I'd say yes in any style of picking. See - SRV. Bigger strings/increased tension definitely have an impact on volume, "girth" of tone, and dynamics.




Bob, AKA, Moderator Who Can Delete, Who Is Also Not Jeff.

 

[LordOVchaoS]

Not to toot my own horn but aside from a couple of guys on stage I've never met anybody that can pick as fast as me. I'm all elbow when it comes to death metal trem picking. Everything else comes from my wrist except for that because it just works better. It took several years to get super fast at it and I've actually slowed down since I've become a lazy family man Just keep practicing (and masturbating) and you'll eventually get as fast as you desire.

OR........

Practice with this guy for a few weeks YouTube - WORLD RECORD GUITAR SPEED 4-6-07

 

[Aghorasilat]

Not to toot my own horn but aside from a couple of guys on stage I've never met anybody that can pick as fast as me. url]

Lets be frank here give us Tempos Bpm #'s please...

I am not saying you can't pick faster than everyone.........but numbers do the real talking.

Peace

Santiago

 

[Naren]

Practice with this guy for a few weeks YouTube - WORLD RECORD GUITAR SPEED 4-6-07

Sounded like a friggin' hive of bees. "Now you don't want one of these to sting ya, cuz it really hurts, ya hear me?"

 

[LordOVchaoS]

Lets be frank here give us Tempos Bpm #'s please...

I am not saying you can't pick faster than everyone.........but numbers do the real talking.

Peace

Santiago

Dunno, never had the urge to time myself. I'm not saying I can pick faster than everyone, I've just never met anybody personally that can pick faster.


How bout a clip? This is actually kinda slow for me and I didn't spend much time on it so it's kinda sloppy: http://www.lordovchaos.com/gnx3000_demo.mp3

I used to be faster and this clip is not as fast as I can go now but it's all I've got to show at the moment. I'm just not arrogant enough or motivated enough to sit down with a metronome and brag numbers

 

[distressed_romeo]

No, I'm asking if you can exert more force on the string when they're at higher tensions before you start losing control. My comfort and muscle tension is the same for both, I just prefer the attack variety of alternate picking; I'm asking if using bigger strings changes the volume you can get away with while economy picking.

It can make a difference, yes, although not a huge one in my experience. I've got a pretty light picking attack though.

 

[distressed_romeo]

I used to be faster and this clip is not as fast as I can go now but it's all I've got to show at the moment. I'm just not arrogant enough or motivated enough to sit down with a metronome and brag numbers

Let's not turn this into one of those ridiculous 'who's fastest' threads...

 

[The Dark Wolf]

Lets be frank here give us Tempos Bpm #'s please...

I am not saying you can't pick faster than everyone.........but numbers do the real talking.

He wasn't trying to start a competition. He was just saying the elbow technique, since he has developed it, works very well for him.

No need to post anything, but since he did, fair enough. That clip sounded pretty cool, BTW, Joe.

 

[Aghorasilat]

He wasn't trying to start a competition. He was just saying the elbow technique, since he has developed it, works very well for him.

No need to post anything, but since he did, fair enough. That clip sounded pretty cool, BTW, Joe.

The clip is very cool however its standard good death metal picking.

I didn't take it as a competition however I was curious what the actual number was cause he said he never heard anyone pick faster.....

I have seen the whole gamut of fast pickers from death metal to jazz to classical.

Bottom line we are all human with the same wiring and also muscles etc... we may express things differently but up to a certain point there is no I am the fastest in the world...you get me?

I have had this discussion with Derek Roddy once he gets guys that are like I am the fastest at doublebass and then he busts out the metronome and they all of a sudden realize

a) they are not as fast as they thought they were
b) there is always someone faster
c) what may appear to be fast is just a subdivision higher of a slower BPM.

I was not trying to start competition I know I can hold my own with picking I have 2 albums to prove that and Frankly I am still developing and learning from it. I still consider myself a beginner at picking. I have in no way mastered it.

Lord of chaos yes your picking sounds good on that clip. I am not dogging you I like what you did.

I just clocked myself my fastest tremolo picking still clean with out sloppy missed notes is 32 notes @ 145bpm. (8 notes per beat)

I honestly I don't see that going faster is all that important in a musical application.


Peace

Santiago

 

[distressed_romeo]

Agree 100%

Actually this thread has been nice, as it's brought up a lot of the more important aspects of picking technique rather than just endless talk about pushing the metronome higher.

 

[LordOVchaoS]

I didn't take it as a competition however I was curious what the actual number was cause he said he never heard anyone pick faster.....

No I didn't

Lord of chaos yes your picking sounds good on that clip. I am not dogging you I like what you did.

...and no I didn't (dog you). I was just saying that I've never had the urge to sit and time myself and I've always felt that guys that have "oh yea? well I can do this many bpm!" conversations to be arrogant. Obviously we see things different so we'll have to just agree to disagree.

Like said I was just trying to tell the guy that I'm the fastest picker I know (not in the world, people I know personally) and I developed my speed and found it more comfortable to go that fast using the elbow technique rather than the wrist.