strings for all-fifth tuning

[I play music]

Planning on going the FCGDAE route. For 9s, I'm looking at:

### 1+CGDA+1 - 9's Minimal Progressive - Kalium
E4 0.009"  CKPLG == 13.19#
A3 0.0135" CKPLG == 13.24#
D3 0.021"  CKWNG == 13.64#
G2 0.033"  CKWNG == 14.44#
C2 0.051"  CKWNG == 14.78#
F1 0.079"  CKWNG == 15.27#
total == 84.55#

and for 10s:

### 1+CGDA+1 - 10's Minimal Progressive - Kalium
E4 0.010"  CKPLG == 16.29#
A3 0.015"  CKPLG == 16.32#
D3 0.023"  CKWNG == 16.56#
G2 0.037"  CKWNG == 17.87#
C2 0.057"  CKWNG == 18.03#
F1 0.086"  CKWNG == 18.18#
total == 103.26#

The 9s are pretty linear, the 10s have a bit of a tension jump once you hit the wound strings. I'm going with the 10s because I have all but the 86 already.

Well I'm using a 9 as high e on 27.7" scale and it is already a bit tough to bend a full step. Doable for sure but me personally I would not go higher than 9s.

 

[ixlramp]

Now I have a standard scale guitar sitting next to me (Ibanez RG) and was wondering if there is a way to also tune it all 5ths...

Yes, totally possible.

Main doubt I have is because in some other thread here that I don't find any more I read about the limits of uptuning. So I am not sure if high G# is still safe and if that string can still be bent let's say a full step

It is not necessary to have G# on top, just use the thinnest gauge you are comfortable with and tune it as high as is practical for you, then go down in fifths from there. GDAEBF# is a good choice for 25.5".

 

[ElRay]

Well I'm using a 9 as high e on 27.7" scale and it is already a bit tough to bend a full step. Doable for sure but me personally I would not go higher than 9s.

That E is the same as the high E in Standard tuning. You can buy off-the-shelf (OTS) 13-56 sets. I currently play a linear progressive set that starts w/ 11s. I hate thin, twangy plain strings.

That set of 9s has about the same total tension as an OTS set of D'Addario Super Lights. The 10s has a total tension a little less than D'Addario "Medium Top/Extra Heavy Bottom" (11-56).

The 10s are a good compromise, because otherwise the bass strings get too large for guitar tuners. Even an 86 is pushing it.

 

[ElRay]

... It is not necessary to have G# on top, just use the thinnest gauge you are comfortable with and tune it as high as is practical for you, then go down in fifths from there. GDAEBF# is a good choice for 25.5".

Yup. D'Addario NYXL should be able to handle a G4 starting with 7s:

### "High G" - Thinest 1st String NYXL - Minimal Progression - NYXL
G4  0.007"  DAPL == 11.23#
C4  0.0105" DAPL == 11.26#
F3  0.016"  DAPL == 11.65#
B2b 0.028"  DANW == 13.42#
E2b 0.043"  DANW == 13.75#
A1b 0.065"  DANW == 14.06#
total == 75.37#

and Kalium 8s can handle an Ab at 25-1/2", so starting with a G4 would give you:

### "High G" - Thinest 1st String Kalium - Minimal Progression - Kalium
G4  0.008"  CKPLG == 14.74#
C4  0.012"  CKPLG == 14.78#
F3  0.018"  CKPLG == 14.81#
B2b 0.029"  CKWNG == 16.34#
E2b 0.045"  CKWNG == 16.51#
A1b 0.070"  CKWNG == 17.06#
total == 94.24#

I would have started above the standard E4 on the 1st string, but I really wanted the 'CGDA' on the open strings (cello tuning) in there somewhere.

 

[I play music]

That E is the same as the high E in Standard tuning. You can buy off-the-shelf (OTS) 13-56 sets. I currently play a linear progressive set that starts w/ 11s. I hate thin, twangy plain strings.

That set of 9s has about the same total tension as an OTS set of D'Addario Super Lights. The 10s has a total tension a little less than D'Addario "Medium Top/Extra Heavy Bottom" (11-56).

The 10s are a good compromise, because otherwise the bass strings get too large for guitar tuners. Even an 86 is pushing it.

What scale length do you have?

 

[I play music]

Yes, totally possible.

It is not necessary to have G# on top, just use the thinnest gauge you are comfortable with and tune it as high as is practical for you, then go down in fifths from there. GDAEBF# is a good choice for 25.5".

Oh it's because I have played a standard scale guitar before tuned down to G and was not a fan of the tone of that low G, so I thought a bit higher would be the way to go, so A as lowest string. But I may do some experimenting to find out what works best for me.

 

[ElRay]

What scale length do you have?

This one is good-old-partscaster 25-1/2".

 

[Two Panthers]

Is it a big deal, or is there any disadvantages for changing gauges after a set up?? Im talking on a hipshot fixed .

I know tension will be altered but does that affect the "setup" work, as long as its not an extreme change in tuning/guages?

Im asking because I want to change a few strings but it was just set up to a balanced Winspear like set and i don't want to un"setup" the axe

And yes, go to Winspear for all string needs for sure, he's very helpful and like has more gauges than I know anyone to sell singles like

 

[ixlramp]

Oh it's because I have played a standard scale guitar before tuned down to G and was not a fan of the tone of that low G, so I thought a bit higher would be the way to go

Ok. I suggest Ab to G then. G# is really borderline practical.

is there any disadvantages for changing gauges after a set up?? Im talking on a hipshot fixed .

If you change gauges you have to redo setup to some degree. Saddle intonation offsets depend on gauge and string construction. If you make sure total tension does not change you may not need to adjust the truss rod. Saddle heights might need a little adjustment.

However, setup is easy on a fixed bridge guitar, you can (and should) do it yourself. You have internet so all the information you need is freely available. Doing your own setup will result in far better setups than any tech, because you can repeatedly fine tune according to your technique, techs will play guitar differently to you so their setups are not optimal for you.

But ... what has this got to do with fifths tuning?

 

[Two Panthers]

Technically, a couple of things, for this discussion, only that if I wanted to do all 5ths then that means i would need a different gauge for at least 2or 3 strings to make it balanced. And the second reason is just like you said, the saddle intonation is what i was worried about, if i had to intonate again with a change of gauge. Maybe 3-4 strings if you are doing 5ths on an 8...

Now i could have asked the question separately , but I didnt think it would be important enough to make my own thread so i just asked when it was semi applicable and relevant.

 

[I play music]

Maybe 3-4 strings if you are doing 5ths on an 8...

6 string in 5ths already has the range of 8 string in 4ths. As you can see we are already discussing what exact range is possible on that. No way can you tune an 8 in 5ths in a usable manner.

 

[Winspear]

Indeed, an unfanned 6 is already pushing it for good performance.
A good time to briefly mention my compressed 5ths tuning though - I take the trebles down an octave on some of my 5ths guitars so the top 4 strings become 2 pairs of powerchords a tone apart. Back to the range of a regular 6 string. I do this on a 7 also. I love the fingerings of fifths, and this makes the range normal again whilst allowing some beautiful close-voiced chords and 12-string type effects on the upper strings where the tuning is high enough to not obscure clarity doing so.

 

[I play music]

Indeed, an unfanned 6 is already pushing it for good performance.
A good time to briefly mention my compressed 5ths tuning though - I take the trebles down an octave on some of my 5ths guitars so the top 4 strings become 2 pairs of powerchords a tone apart. Back to the range of a regular 6 string. I do this on a 7 also. I love the fingerings of fifths, and this makes the range normal again whilst allowing some beautiful close-voiced chords and 12-string type effects on the upper strings where the tuning is high enough to not obscure clarity doing so.

A re-entrant tuning I think is how you would call this?
I actually have thought about this but with the two low strings. You choosing the high ones makes probably more sense for chords like you say. Have to think about this, could be cool.

 

[ElRay]

A re-entrant tuning I think is how you would call this?...

Yup Carl Kress did this too. The 1st string was an octave lower.

 

[Winspear]

Yup check out entries on youtube for gambale tuning or baritone half nashville tuning for an idea of the sound but on 4ths guitar. Frank Gambale and Pat Metheny respectively. One neat thing I find is it gives two extremely different fingerings for the same voicing - whenever I find something cool but hard to play, an easy reshuffling can be found

 

[I play music]

Yup check out entries on youtube for gambale tuning or baritone half nashville tuning for an idea of the sound but on 4ths guitar. Frank Gambale and Pat Metheny respectively. One neat thing I find is it gives two extremely different fingerings for the same voicing - whenever I find something cool but hard to play, an easy reshuffling can be found

As someone who has never played piano I wasn't really aware of all the chords a piano player can play and we can't. But Gambale explaining it makes so much sense to me now. Maybe it could also be an option to play those monuments style chords without having to use some open tuning that I get totally lost on. So many new ideas now, thanks guys!

So for chord playing this re-entrant tuning looks perfect, for leads probably not so much I imagine. Whatever you do, always some compromise.

 

[42eggs]

Hi, everyone. I created an account to ask your advice regarding fifths tuning. I'm considering an acoustic baritone with a 29 1/16 scale. What string gauges would you recommend for FCGDAE tuning?

I play tenor guitars and mando-instruments, all tuned in fifths... now thinking about branching out but in the same tuning. The longest scale instrument I have is a mandocello at 24 7/8, so this will be new territory and I'm not sure what gauges to look at. Thanks.

 

[ElRay]

... What string gauges would you recommend for FCGDAE tuning? ...

What tensions/current string set do you currently like?

 

[ixlramp]

Depends on your tension preference.
Use a string tension calculator to determine the necessary gauges to achieve the tension you know you like on your mandocello. Then perfect by trial-and-error.