strings for all-fifth tuning

[I play music]

I had the idea to get a baritone guitar (27" or 28") and tune it in all-fifth from normal high e to low Meshuggah F. Does anyone know of a factory string set more or less useful for that or is the only option to buy single strings?

 

[GunpointMetal]

Probably gonna need single strings, otherwise you're going to end up with really low tension in the bottom end. You could maybe get away with ordering an 8-string pack and ditching a few strings. Maybe.

 

[Winspear]

Singles certainly. It could function with an 8 string set but there will be fairly significant discrepancies.
I do that same tuning a semitone lower on 30" Hit me up (EU) or go to Stringjoy (US) to avoid paying out the ass for singles.
I suggest something like;
len 27.5
e4 .009 dapl == 15.27#
a3 .0135 dapl == 15.31#
d3 .023 danw == 16.93#
g2 .035 danw == 17.14#
c2 .054 danw == 17.72#
f1 .080 danw == 17.17#

8.5 + 13 on top would be good too.

Here's my current setup.
len 30
e1 .080 danw == 24.02#
b2 .056 danw == 23.57#
g2b.038 danw == 23.75#
d3b .024 danw == 23.32#
a3b .013 dapl == 16.9#
e4b .0085 dapl == 16.22#

 

[TheKindred]

can highly recommend Mr.Winspear for all your musical accouterments needs. Dude knows what he's talking about and sells quality goods.

 

[stockwell]

I used to use all-fifths tunings on a 28.625" scale. So yeah, I usually ended up doing the high E to low F like you described. I'd usually get an 8-string set and throw out the ones I didn't use. It didn't work optimally with either tension or intonation, but I think scale length also plays into that. I think a multiscale with a wide fan would be ideal for all fifths tuning. Unfortunately I don't know any 6 string multiscale guitars that would work well for all fifths.

 

[ixlramp]

There are no commercial fifths string sets. Best use a tension calculator to find out what per-string tensions across a set you like, then use it to choose gauges that achieve those per-string tensions in the fifths tuning.

Using an 8 string set will result in very imbalanced tensions, which will irritate you, and wasted strings. Singles are more expensive per-string but you only need 6 so it may not be any more expensive. Certainly use a custom set of singles.

As a rough rule to help you choose, mulitplying or dividing gauge by 1.5 results in an approximately equal tension adjacent string (in fifths tuning).
However this rule doesn't work from wound to plain or plain to wound, it only works for 2 wounds or 2 plains.
Also, i'm not suggesting equal tensions is ideal, it actually isn't for a guitar.

Fanned frets are not at all necessary for fifths tuning, parallel frets do not cause a problem.

 

[I play music]

Thanks everyone for the input! I think if I go ahead with this idea, I'd go 28" rather than 27". Multiscale would be cool but most have the scale length too short overall for the e to F tuning.

I have actually found out that Ernie Ball sell "single string sets" which is 3 or 6 of the same gauge together where the price is better than going single single strings. I'll also keep Winspear in mind. I come to the conclusion that buying the right strings for this is doable.

Since some people here have done this already, do you have any metal music recorded with that tuning I can listen to? On youtube I've mostly just found jazz stuff.

 

[Winspear]

Nice Yeah straight scale works ok, I'd rather go long than short. High E is doable safely up to around 30" even if not pleasant to play so I don't worry about that and make sure I'm happy with the tone of the bottom string. 28" is a good choice and makes a nice F.

Yeah those jazzy vids are pretty cool. I haven't recorded anything yet but I'm finding it particularly conductive for music thats heavy on big chords - something I don't tend to do much of in standard tuning. You can grab shapes like 556(m) 557(M), 7755(powerchord) and flesh them out generally pretty well with a simple barre and an extra finger somewhere. 775565 is a nice one. Lots of nice options. Quintal harmony tends to sound nice in general and wide interval spacing is good for clarity. Playing a lot of post rock through to Deafheaven sounding stuff in 5ths whereas I lean toward straightforward or technical death metal and prog in standard.

 

[ixlramp]

Chords map out so nicely in fifths:

Minor 7th chord 5566
Major 7th chord 5577
Dominant 7th chord 5576
Minor major 7th chord 5567
Major 6th chord 5575
Minor 6th chord 5565
Suspended 2nd 555

(Fret numbers for strings, low to high)

From low to high strings the chord intervals are in order:
Root, fifth, 2nd / 3rds, 6th / 7ths.
I like how the more complex non-fifth intervals are moved into the upper octave of the chords.

All i can think of so far for fifths-tuned metal is ZweiTon https://zweiton.bandcamp.com/ All the guitar and bass parts are played on a 34" scale 8 string full range guitar tuned in mostly fifths BbFCGDACD. There is a lot of 2 hand tapping (it's a Touch Guitars U8 Deluxe https://www.touchguitars.com/models-specs/u8-deluxe/ ).

 

[julez]

I have my PRS SE 277 strung up with Stringjoy single strings .010 .015 026w. 042 .060 .090.
For my use it's the perfect combination of scale length and string gauges.

 

[I play music]

Nice Yeah straight scale works ok, I'd rather go long than short. High E is doable safely up to around 30" even if not pleasant to play so I don't worry about that and make sure I'm happy with the tone of the bottom string. 28" is a good choice and makes a nice F.

What 30" guitar do you use for your all fifth-tuning? I haven't seen a lot of options with that scale length to be honest. At least not something suited to high gain.

I have my PRS SE 277 strung up with Stringjoy single strings .010 .015 026w. 042 .060 .090.
For my use it's the perfect combination of scale length and string gauges.

What's your tuning? I assume with 90 you tune lower than F ;-)

 

[Winspear]

A Bass VI, Agile semihollow to be specific. I've owned a few (Fender HSS, Schecter Ultra HHH), this is perhaps the least suited to high gain but I'm playing jazz and doom on it haha. It's totally fine for non technical metal too.
Typical classic Bass VIs though are some of my favourite high gain guitars and I tend to prefer their character and spank to most regular 8 string guitars. Plenty of bands using them, Black Tongue, Loathe etc.

 

[julez]

What's your tuning? I assume with 90 you tune lower than F ;-)

Nope, I didn't feel the need to say that. In all-fifth from normal high e to low Meshuggah F. ;-)

 

[ixlramp]

I have my PRS SE 277 strung up with Stringjoy single strings .010 .015 026w. 042 .060 .090.

I noticed how the 'gauge */ 1.5' rule is demonstrated here for the plains and wounds, apart from the .042.
Checking with the Stringjoy tension calculator indeed the wounds are all at the same tension except the .042 which is tighter, a .040 would be at equal tension.
Anyway, i assume you prefer it that way.

.010 * 1.5 = .015 so the plains are at equal tension.

.026 * 1.5 = .039
.040 * 1.5 = .060
.060 * 1,5 = .090
So .026w .040 .060 .090 would be roughly equal tensions, the Stringjoy calculator confirms this.

FCGDAE contains standard D and E, so i suggest a way of choosing gauges from a preferred standard D and E (useful if there is no tension data):

Multiply E gauge by 1.5 for A gauge, for 2 the plain steels at equal tension.
Pairs:
.008 .012
.009 .0135
.010 .015

Starting from the D gauge, work across the strings, multiplying gauge by 1.5.
Personally i would choose the larger gauge when the result is inbetween available gauges, for a slight increase in tension across the wounds from high to low, except on the last step where looser may be optimal to avoid an excessively large gauge for F.
Results:
.020 .030 .046 .068
.022 .034 .052 .078
.024 .036 .054 .080
.026 .040 .060 .090

 

[I play music]

A Bass VI, Agile semihollow to be specific. I've owned a few (Fender HSS, Schecter Ultra HHH), this is perhaps the least suited to high gain but I'm playing jazz and doom on it haha. It's totally fine for non technical metal too.
Typical classic Bass VIs though are some of my favourite high gain guitars and I tend to prefer their character and spank to most regular 8 string guitars. Plenty of bands using them, Black Tongue, Loathe etc.

The single coils always made me stay away from such guitars thinking it would be noise hell with high gain. But maybe I should give them a try, in videos they do sound better than some 8 string recordings, yes.

Nope, I didn't feel the need to say that. In all-fifth from normal high e to low Meshuggah F. ;-)

Maybe I was just confused because I think in another thread here someone used the same 90 gauge for a low D. But you just seem to like some extra tension.

I noticed how the 'gauge */ 1.5' rule is demonstrated here for the plains and wounds, apart from the .042.
Checking with the Stringjoy tension calculator indeed the wounds are all at the same tension except the .042 which is tighter, a .040 would be at equal tension.
Anyway, i assume you prefer it that way.

.010 * 1.5 = .015 so the plains are at equal tension.

.026 * 1.5 = .039
.040 * 1.5 = .060
.060 * 1,5 = .090
So .026w .040 .060 .090 would be roughly equal tensions, the Stringjoy calculator confirms this.

FCGDAE contains standard D and E, so i suggest a way of choosing gauges from a preferred standard D and E (useful if there is no tension data):

Multiply E gauge by 1.5 for A gauge, for 2 the plain steels at equal tension.
Pairs:
.008 .012
.009 .0135
.010 .015

Starting from the D gauge, work across the strings, multiplying gauge by 1.5.
Personally i would choose the larger gauge when the result is inbetween available gauges, for a slight increase in tension across the wounds from high to low, except on the last step where looser may be optimal to avoid an excessively large gauge for F.
Results:
.020 .030 .046 .068
.022 .034 .052 .078
.024 .036 .054 .080
.026 .040 .060 .090

That's quite cool to be able to calculate in your head if a combination of string gauges makes sense. Thanks for the tip.

 

[I play music]

Singles certainly. It could function with an 8 string set but there will be fairly significant discrepancies.
I do that same tuning a semitone lower on 30" Hit me up (EU) or go to Stringjoy (US) to avoid paying out the ass for singles.
I suggest something like;
len 27.5
e4 .009 dapl == 15.27#
a3 .0135 dapl == 15.31#
d3 .023 danw == 16.93#
g2 .035 danw == 17.14#
c2 .054 danw == 17.72#
f1 .080 danw == 17.17#

8.5 + 13 on top would be good too.

Here's my current setup.
len 30
e1 .080 danw == 24.02#
b2 .056 danw == 23.57#
g2b.038 danw == 23.75#
d3b .024 danw == 23.32#
a3b .013 dapl == 16.9#
e4b .0085 dapl == 16.22#

I have finally tried it with 9, 13, 24, 36, 54, 80 so almost what you have suggested and it works perfect on the PRS 277!
Now I have a standard scale guitar sitting next to me (Ibanez RG) and was wondering if there is a way to also tune it all 5ths... maybe low A to high G# with something like 70 to 8 strings?
I like that guitar but haven't really touched 6 strings any more in a long time, so maybe with all 5ths tuning I could make that guitar interesting again for me if you get what I mean

 

[Winspear]

I have finally tried it with 9, 13, 24, 36, 54, 80 so almost what you have suggested and it works perfect on the PRS 277!
Now I have a standard scale guitar sitting next to me (Ibanez RG) and was wondering if there is a way to also tune it all 5ths... maybe low A to high G# with something like 70 to 8 strings?
I like that guitar but haven't really touched 6 strings any more in a long time, so maybe with all 5ths tuning I could make that guitar interesting again for me if you get what I mean

I love 5ths! 70 48 32 21 11 8 would be pretty nice for that yes

 

[I play music]

I love 5ths!

Starting to feel the same hahaha
Main doubt I have is because in some other thread here that I don't find any more I read about the limits of uptuning. So I am not sure if high G# is still safe and if that string can still be bent let's say a full step. Short googling shows people have made different experiences regarding the limit of uptuning. Maybe I have to buy a couple of 8s and do a little experiment.

 

[Winspear]

Starting to feel the same hahaha
Main doubt I have is because in some other thread here that I don't find any more I read about the limits of uptuning. So I am not sure if high G# is still safe and if that string can still be bent let's say a full step. Short googling shows people have made different experiences regarding the limit of uptuning. Maybe I have to buy a couple of 8s and do a little experiment.

I've had a G# on 24.75 with an 008 or 0085 for years. It's broken only a handful of times. I do bend it a semitone, but would definitely not want to bend it more or do it much longer. Make sure there are no sharp points on the guitar and you should be ok with normal playing and semitone bends on 25.5

 

[ElRay]

Planning on going the FCGDAE route. For 9s, I'm looking at:

### 1+CGDA+1 - 9's Minimal Progressive - Kalium
E4 0.009"  CKPLG == 13.19#
A3 0.0135" CKPLG == 13.24#
D3 0.021"  CKWNG == 13.64#
G2 0.033"  CKWNG == 14.44#
C2 0.051"  CKWNG == 14.78#
F1 0.079"  CKWNG == 15.27#
total == 84.55#

and for 10s:

### 1+CGDA+1 - 10's Minimal Progressive - Kalium
E4 0.010"  CKPLG == 16.29#
A3 0.015"  CKPLG == 16.32#
D3 0.023"  CKWNG == 16.56#
G2 0.037"  CKWNG == 17.87#
C2 0.057"  CKWNG == 18.03#
F1 0.086"  CKWNG == 18.18#
total == 103.26#

The 9s are pretty linear, the 10s have a bit of a tension jump once you hit the wound strings. I'm going with the 10s because I have all but the 86 already.