The 357 Customs / Zakk Wylde Guitar Offer!
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Shannon, is it pretty cool? Any note, etc. come with it to explain the delay?
^ Yeah, it's cool for what it is. I put it on my fireplace mantle. No notes, just the invoice.
i actually emailed info(at)357customs with regards to changing my shipping address, since i'm moving across town this summer. i'll let you guys know what i hear back.
nice to hear you finally got your bike, Shannon. if you want another one, for the right price, i've got one in Buzzsaw
nice to hear you finally got your bike, Shannon. if you want another one, for the right price, i've got one in Buzzsaw
I've been following the postings over at the BLS page, and someone mentioned Googling the name "Daniel Bauguess", the current president of 357. Here's one thing I found:
"NASCAR fans have the opportunity to win an authentic NASCAR Winston Cup Series No. 91 race car or a brand new 1999 Chevrolet Monte Carlo. Fans can enter by purchasing INVINCA-Shield's gift package, which includes a 1:24 scale diecast No. 91 car, and a $75 gift certificate good to use toward any INVINCA-Shield kit, or by sending a postcard with name, address and phone number to INVINCA-Shield.
Daniel Bauguess, president of INVINCA-Shield, realizes that NASCAR fans are loyal purchasers. He created a promotion that would "reward the loyal NASCAR fan base by giving them something back, while showing them how to protect their vehicles." "
Additionally, here is a link to a story regarding problems with that same company:
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=31238&FS=NASCAR-GDS
and legal action initiated against the same company for stock-related issues:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=nc&vol=appeals2003/&invol=030072-1
No class-action lawsuit about promo items that were never received though! I still have my fingers crossed! (against all odds)
"NASCAR fans have the opportunity to win an authentic NASCAR Winston Cup Series No. 91 race car or a brand new 1999 Chevrolet Monte Carlo. Fans can enter by purchasing INVINCA-Shield's gift package, which includes a 1:24 scale diecast No. 91 car, and a $75 gift certificate good to use toward any INVINCA-Shield kit, or by sending a postcard with name, address and phone number to INVINCA-Shield.
Daniel Bauguess, president of INVINCA-Shield, realizes that NASCAR fans are loyal purchasers. He created a promotion that would "reward the loyal NASCAR fan base by giving them something back, while showing them how to protect their vehicles." "
Additionally, here is a link to a story regarding problems with that same company:
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=31238&FS=NASCAR-GDS
and legal action initiated against the same company for stock-related issues:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=nc&vol=appeals2003/&invol=030072-1
No class-action lawsuit about promo items that were never received though! I still have my fingers crossed! (against all odds)
Drew
Forum MVP
Hmm.
I'd say that as it's essentially the same sort of promo offering, it's safe to assume this isn't just a wild coincidence and this Daniel guy is either a shitty businessman who makes commitments he can't keep, or a scumbag.
And digging through the legalize of the settlement, it appears that Bauguess was eventually cleared on the fact that while he may or may not have misled his investors, they failed to excersize due dilligence on their part in neglecting to obtain financial statements, reading the exact terms of their purchase agreements, etc. In short, he got off on a technicality when he appealed.
I'd say that as it's essentially the same sort of promo offering, it's safe to assume this isn't just a wild coincidence and this Daniel guy is either a shitty businessman who makes commitments he can't keep, or a scumbag.
And digging through the legalize of the settlement, it appears that Bauguess was eventually cleared on the fact that while he may or may not have misled his investors, they failed to excersize due dilligence on their part in neglecting to obtain financial statements, reading the exact terms of their purchase agreements, etc. In short, he got off on a technicality when he appealed.
darren
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Funny that the structure and wording of the "Invinca-shield" promo is almost exactly the same, right down to the "giving something back to the fans" hype. It definitely doesn't look like there's a strong history of astute business decisions.
As far as legal action goes, it's really hard to say if buyers would have a leg to stand on. If you paid your money and got the gift certificate and the die-cast model, technically you got what you paid for. The guitar was a "bonus" free item.
However, using the free guitar as a lure to sell gift certificates and die-cast models may qualify as a "bait and switch" if they fail to follow through on the offer as advertised.
In my (non-legal non-binding) opinion, it sounds like the company may have been experiencing cash flow issues, so the money collected on this promotion served to temporarily shore up their coffers or finance other activities over the short term.
Ultimately, it seems like a money-losing promotion, and it doesn't take a lot of business sense to see that. Sometimes it's okay to run a promotion at a loss if you're building the company's name and customer good will, and/or getting PR value out of the earned media impressions (as opposed to paying for advertising). But by bungling the fulfillment, they've already squandered the customer good will and received a ton of negative publicity.
The only thing that might save the promotion from complete and utter failure is if they're able to make at least a bit of money on it. For this to happen, they would have to count on:
As far as legal action goes, it's really hard to say if buyers would have a leg to stand on. If you paid your money and got the gift certificate and the die-cast model, technically you got what you paid for. The guitar was a "bonus" free item.
However, using the free guitar as a lure to sell gift certificates and die-cast models may qualify as a "bait and switch" if they fail to follow through on the offer as advertised.
In my (non-legal non-binding) opinion, it sounds like the company may have been experiencing cash flow issues, so the money collected on this promotion served to temporarily shore up their coffers or finance other activities over the short term.
Ultimately, it seems like a money-losing promotion, and it doesn't take a lot of business sense to see that. Sometimes it's okay to run a promotion at a loss if you're building the company's name and customer good will, and/or getting PR value out of the earned media impressions (as opposed to paying for advertising). But by bungling the fulfillment, they've already squandered the customer good will and received a ton of negative publicity.
The only thing that might save the promotion from complete and utter failure is if they're able to make at least a bit of money on it. For this to happen, they would have to count on:
- people not redeeming their gift certificates (i wouldn't be surprised if at least 40% of those gift certificates are not redeemed);
- very high profit margins on the merch they sell through their store (at $23.95 for a printed t-shirt, that seems like a given); and
- dirt-cheap fulfillment on the "free" part of the offer, which means rock-bottom cost (or zero cost) on the guitar and the cheapest of cheap deals on shipping them out.
Chris
Forum MVP
mazafaka said:
This won't end well.
Chris
Forum MVP
darren said:
Exactly.
As I've said all along I really hope you guys actually get your guitars. I'll be shocked as shit if you do. If you don't, are a lot of people bought tons of these to flood ebay. At least you can sleep easy knowing that somewhere, there is a grown man (or 20) with 30 diecast toy bikes.
Drew
Forum MVP
I think there's actually a pretty good chance these guys will (eventually) deliver. They've got Zakk Wylde's name behind it and whatever else you say about the guy he's very fands-first, and I don't think he'd idly stand by while all his fans got fucked. Additionally, there's surely been enough incoming revinue from all the mp3-player options to keep the company afloat for at least the first delivery.
In order for this to not come through, one of the following two things would have to happen:
1.) Zakk would need to be (publically, anyway) bought off on the grounds that most of the guitars were for resellers, not fans. This is possible, I suppose.
2.) 357 Cycles would have to declare bankrupcy, which would render these purchase agreements null and void, especially in that the guitars were "bonus items." Again, there should be enough cashflow to hold them off for a while at least.
Again, with Zakk's reputation on the line, they'll deliver if it's economically possible provided they don't play the "Well, we tried to offer Zakk's fans a friendly thank you, but resellers came in and fucked it for the rest of you. Look how hard we tried, and all the shit we put up with, but no, a few bad apples had to ruin it for everyone. Blame them." I'd say the odds are against this, but like 70-30% against it tops, not 95% against it.
Barring that, 357 Cycles could very easily just declare bankrupcy. If Darren's right (which I suspect he is) they could probably get away with it, and in which case the chance of anyone who doesn't have a guitar getting one is essentially zero. This could set them up for a rather nasty class action lawsuit, but with 357 in bankrupcy the most you'll likely see is a partial rebate of the gift certificate purchase price, and no guitar.
Again, I'm betting many of you will see guitars... But many of the guys getting mp3 players most likely will not, and if these guys are still in business one year down the road, I'll be shocked.
In order for this to not come through, one of the following two things would have to happen:
1.) Zakk would need to be (publically, anyway) bought off on the grounds that most of the guitars were for resellers, not fans. This is possible, I suppose.
2.) 357 Cycles would have to declare bankrupcy, which would render these purchase agreements null and void, especially in that the guitars were "bonus items." Again, there should be enough cashflow to hold them off for a while at least.
Again, with Zakk's reputation on the line, they'll deliver if it's economically possible provided they don't play the "Well, we tried to offer Zakk's fans a friendly thank you, but resellers came in and fucked it for the rest of you. Look how hard we tried, and all the shit we put up with, but no, a few bad apples had to ruin it for everyone. Blame them." I'd say the odds are against this, but like 70-30% against it tops, not 95% against it.
Barring that, 357 Cycles could very easily just declare bankrupcy. If Darren's right (which I suspect he is) they could probably get away with it, and in which case the chance of anyone who doesn't have a guitar getting one is essentially zero. This could set them up for a rather nasty class action lawsuit, but with 357 in bankrupcy the most you'll likely see is a partial rebate of the gift certificate purchase price, and no guitar.
Again, I'm betting many of you will see guitars... But many of the guys getting mp3 players most likely will not, and if these guys are still in business one year down the road, I'll be shocked.
fuck
j7899 said:
Just curious....what number are you?
David said:
Well said.
So I called Gibson / Epiphone today and inquired about 357 Customs. The guy said that 357 does have a bulk order into Epiphone and that order has not yet been fulfilled. He couldn't give me a reason for the lack of fulfillment, and he didn't have any other information.
I am wondering: is it possible that the order hasn't been fulfilled because it hasn't been paid for? I realize that Epiphone has to get the guitars from Asia, but what are the possible reasons for Epiphone's delay, and could they be in some way related to 357?
Also, supposedly 357 has relocated to TN, just outside Nashville. Here is the address:
357 Customs
7115 Bakers Bridge Avenue
Brentwood, TN 37027
Office# (407) 831-0357
Fax# (407) 262-0434
Of course, the phone numbers are still from their FL address so you can't actually talk to anyone. Does anyone here live near Nashville and can swing by for a look at the 357 facility to see if there are actually people there?
The more of us that start digging, the sooner we will have some answers... anyone want to lend a hand?
I am wondering: is it possible that the order hasn't been fulfilled because it hasn't been paid for? I realize that Epiphone has to get the guitars from Asia, but what are the possible reasons for Epiphone's delay, and could they be in some way related to 357?
Also, supposedly 357 has relocated to TN, just outside Nashville. Here is the address:
357 Customs
7115 Bakers Bridge Avenue
Brentwood, TN 37027
Office# (407) 831-0357
Fax# (407) 262-0434
Of course, the phone numbers are still from their FL address so you can't actually talk to anyone. Does anyone here live near Nashville and can swing by for a look at the 357 facility to see if there are actually people there?
The more of us that start digging, the sooner we will have some answers... anyone want to lend a hand?
Drew
Forum MVP
Good work, maza. I wouldn't be shocked if you were right. If I was in Tennessee I'd offer to drop in and take a look, but...
[action=Drew]looks under his avatar[/action]
...that's a long road trp.
[action=Drew]looks under his avatar[/action]
...that's a long road trp.
darren said:
Well, they were previously located in Florida so that makes sense, although the fact that they don't publish any currently working number IS very sketchy. I posted this info on HC and Slickdeals in an effort to get more info. Apparently some people have driven by the physical location and this is what they had to say:
"Yes people have visited and yes it exists although not up and running yet. And people have also researched the last 3 tenants to occupy the building and the in depth history of 357."
What this means, I do not know. But there are about 500 pages (literally) of replies on Slickdeals about the 357 deal. I don't have the energy to scan through all those pages searching for actual information amongst the whining...
Well, the bike I got came from that TN address. As for the LPs...they have been shipped to people who put there orders in early. Basically, it all depends on where you are at in the waiting line.
What's all yo' bitch ass numbers? I'm 2354.Shannon said:
Thanks for the info Maza!
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