PrestigeRS4
Well-Known Member
I'm wondering if something happened in the shop. Like all the woods went to shit and everything got destroyed or something. To leave people in the dark means some serious shit went down.
The BRJ Black Friday Thread (Only for updates for/by customers.)[Ad Free]
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JPMike
Totally Random
killertone
Well-Known Member
Bingo.
There are a SHITLOAD of guitars in his shop. There must have been at least 100 or so when I was there in various states of completion. Most of them were painted. Wonder what happened to all of them?
xCaptainx
Dr Djodson
especially as again, this 'Chris G' was introduced a few months ago who would handle all of this. Where the hell has this guy gone to?!?!
Rap Hat
the:pawn.project
Hoooooooooooly shit
. My experience hasn't been this bad so far, but it was always jarring talking to Bernie and having him not know who I was or which guitar was mine, when 30 minutes before he'd asked me what pickups I wanted in my build in an email. I laughed the third time he said "okay, I'm putting this in your spec sheet" regarding the Aftermaths that the original buyer had ordered and had sent to Bernie (he eventually decided the guitar was getting Painkillers because he had no record of the Aftermaths and claimed they'd take a long time to order).That guy probably has 50 sets of customer ordered and paid for pickups sitting there, unlabeled. When a build comes up, he tosses random ones in there and calls them either Aftermaths or Painkillers. Who had the build with the random BKs that weren't what Bernie claimed?
I just filed my complaint with the BBB. ALL of you who have still not received your guitar (BRJ or not) need to file one too! Don't keep procrastinating, just DO IT so we can all hopefully get some goddamn resolution to this nightmare!! 
MAJ Meadows SF
on a tone quest
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I've been worried about the pickups too. Custom TYGER covered Aftermaths. There's no fucking way you could mix those up. I'll flip if they "disappeared", and I won't accept substitutes. This is assuming some day the guitar actually gets built (or exists).
Jexey
Well-Known Member
Here you go. The posts with useful info in them tend to get buried under the ones about vandalizing his FB page, making lawyers richer with silly class action suits, just giving up, random guesses, misleading info, etc...
Silly class action lawsuits? So all those hundreds of thousands of class actions in the past that have been ruled on, most over equivalent stakes, are bullshit? What the fuck kind of blindfolds are you wearing that you discredit hundreds of years of due process?
Lawyers are around for a reason: They work. If Bernie has the assets the court will burn them to get us our restitution. Don't discredit shit just because you have a problem with the legal process (Hint: Everybody does) or don't see a lawsuit coming to fruition.
elq
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
^ I suspect his point was that class action suites have tended to pay a massively disproportionate portion of the settlement to the attorney rather than the plaintiffs.
Also, if you seriously think you're going to get an attorney to file a federal class action lawsuit with max damages in the range of, what, 150 * $1600 you're probably not thinking clearly
Note that I'm generously ignoring the fact that Bernie is probably effectively broke, so the chances of collecting are near zero. And what assets do you think he has? A painting setup, some setup and wiring tools, and maybe a wood stash? His wood shop is strongly suggested to be in Mexico and is probably untouchable. It's not like he's running a big shop full of Haas machines
Overall, it would probably be more productive to focus efforts in directions other than collective action law suites
Also, if you seriously think you're going to get an attorney to file a federal class action lawsuit with max damages in the range of, what, 150 * $1600 you're probably not thinking clearly
Note that I'm generously ignoring the fact that Bernie is probably effectively broke, so the chances of collecting are near zero. And what assets do you think he has? A painting setup, some setup and wiring tools, and maybe a wood stash? His wood shop is strongly suggested to be in Mexico and is probably untouchable. It's not like he's running a big shop full of Haas machines
Overall, it would probably be more productive to focus efforts in directions other than collective action law suites
Speculum Speculorum
Well-Known Member
Yes - Bernie is totally broke. A lawsuit at this point would be not the best idea.
Keep focusing your energy on getting your banks or credit card companies to reverse charges. This is, by far, the best way to go about it.
Keep focusing your energy on getting your banks or credit card companies to reverse charges. This is, by far, the best way to go about it.
^ I suspect his point was that class action suites have tended to pay a massively disproportionate portion of the settlement to the attorney rather than the plaintiffs.
Also, if you seriously think you're going to get an attorney to file a federal class action lawsuit with max damages in the range of, what, 150 * $1600 you're probably not thinking clearly
Bingo.
Not to mention the number of people that would actually get involved would probably be closer to 15 than 150. Up until this week, only 1 person took a whopping 5 minutes to even file a BBB complaint.
The winners in class action settlements are the lawyers that get rich and the big companies that get off light by throwing them a few million bucks to shut up and go away. Yay! Everyone wins (except the class members)!
The classmates.com settlement is a good example of how it works... but congrats to those winners with their big fat $3 settlement checks! Oh, and a bigger congratulations to classmates.com that apparently pulled in between $30M and $120M on that scam... and made it all go away with a tiny little $9.5M settlement.
Not to mention, how many companies knowingly sell dangerous products because it's cheaper to shut a few complainers up with a class action settlement than it is to recall the products?
Note that I'm generously ignoring the fact that Bernie is probably effectively broke, so the chances of collecting are near zero. And what assets do you think he has? A painting setup, some setup and wiring tools, and maybe a wood stash? His wood shop is strongly suggested to be in Mexico and is probably untouchable. It's not like he's running a big shop full of Haas machines
Exactly. Even in ideal conditions, what were his assets?
He rents (or rented?) a building that might be empty since no one can see through the blacked out windows.
Tools could have easily been sold off within a few days on Craigslist.
And it's not like anyone is going to look at a pile of dusty wood and mistake it for a gold mine.
Hilarious... especially the part where you wrote "Lawyers are around for a reason: They work."
But who knows, maybe you'll get really lucky, then you can come back and wave a $12 class action settlement check in my face and tell me how wrong I was.
EDIT: I just realized you're the same person that made this post, which pretty much shows that you're better at pointless ranting than thinking things out and grasping how the situation would actually play out in real life.
Rev2010
Contributor
The two or so posters above me already made the point but I just felt the need to add to this. Class action lawsuits are known by and large to benefit primarily the lawyers handling them. I don't know how old you are, probably quite young I would guess because if you weren't you would have at some point received some bullshit settlement from your credit card company or some other company you've dealt business with, for a lousy $5-$10 for some class action settlement. The thing is the company is forced to pay xxx millions of dollars (for big cases) and after the legal fees the people who started the lawsuit get scraps of left over change. The lawyers get the millions and the customers chump change.
So that is why I believe the person you responded too said "silly class action law suits" - not to say law suits overall are pointless. You'd basically have a better chance of getting a real payout via small claims court than a class action lawsuit. This case however looks like nothing less than fraud... and if those of you on here that are out $1000+ each band together and keep doing something about this there is no doubt in mind Bernie will likely see jail time. Unfortunately, unless he has money in the bank, assets, or property then getting your money back might not actually happen. Either way, at least not letting someone get away with flat out theft is a good cause.
*EDIT - wow, just told my wife the story of what went on here and she's pretty darn good at figuring things out and her immediate reaction was, "Sounds like he might have gotten into some serious gambling debt and ran a black Friday special so he could gather enough cash to pay up, but then couldn't meet demand or possibly took the excess cash and gambled more and got into trouble and just eventually took off" - that is of course PURELY speculation but kind of an interesting theory no?
Rev.
TemjinStrife
Power Metal Cellist
Filing a legal complaint can scare the hell out of someone, but it won't do you any good if someone is judgment proof.
Especially since BRJ as an entity is almost certainly a corporation, and there's not enough money involved here to bother even trying to pierce the corporate veil to get at other assets.
Especially since BRJ as an entity is almost certainly a corporation, and there's not enough money involved here to bother even trying to pierce the corporate veil to get at other assets.
Rev2010
Contributor
It's astonishing how little you know about law. Fraud is fraud, being incorporated or limited liability does not protect you from fraud charges and/or asset seizure.
Rev.
elq
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
um.... he's in law school, I do believe
and what he wrote is accurate.
and what he wrote is accurate.
Hollowway
Extended Ranger
Well, sort of. On his website (though now down) and his facebook page, as well as all collateral material, there is no mention of his corp. (i.e. no "inc" or "corporation" or anything like that.) That's a big no-no in corporations, as it generally pierces the corporate veil from the get-go. Corps can't be "hidden" and are supposed to make it clear to the customer that there is a corp.
It appears, on searching the California government website that his corp has dissolved. The last Statement of Information filing was done in 2005.
I'm chiming in here, because I am getting pretty discouraged about the whole situation. He's been generally good about answering my emails/phone calls. But I've heard nothing as well. I'm going to have to see what I can do to get my money/guitar as well.
Unfortunately, one person cannot represent another in small claims court in California. Otherwise I'd just go represent everyone.
It appears, on searching the California government website that his corp has dissolved. The last Statement of Information filing was done in 2005.
I'm chiming in here, because I am getting pretty discouraged about the whole situation. He's been generally good about answering my emails/phone calls. But I've heard nothing as well. I'm going to have to see what I can do to get my money/guitar as well.
Unfortunately, one person cannot represent another in small claims court in California. Otherwise I'd just go represent everyone.
elq
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
But I don't think this changes TemjinStrife's point, which was basically if Bernie doesn't have cash, you get no money.
Edit: derp. I think I misread. I wish everyone luck in resolving their issues with Bernie, but I don't think satisfaction will be coming...
Hollowway
Extended Ranger
Ah, good find. I only found the dissolved one. I agree with you that the odds of getting money aren't great, but I also would be VERY surprised if he is out of money. My guess is the business is out of money, but he, personally, isn't. I have no way of knowing that, though. At any rate, I'm going to try to do what I can to get some sort of resolution. I'm about 5 hours drive from his place, so it wouldn't be the end of the world to at least see what the heck is going on. I just have to find out where he lives, and either drop by or call the home number or something.
TemjinStrife
Power Metal Cellist
Since it's likely most of you dealt with a corporation, you can likely only sue the corporation... and corporations exist to limit the personal liability of those who invest in them. To get at Bernie himself and his assets, you'd have to pierce the corporate veil, which is relatively difficult to do and typically quite expensive to argue, since it would require a fair bit of discovery into business practices and the like. While it's not impossible, you're looking probably a dozen hours of research, filing a complaint and a few discovery motions, plus at least one deposition. That'd eat up pretty much any recovery you might be able to secure.
My point is that the mere existence of such potential defenses drives the cost of bringing suit up dramatically... which means that, with the amount of money in question here, you're limited to suing the BRJ corporate entity. Therefore, you would require someone to do some research to determine if the corporation has any assets worth chasing in the first place.
Your best bet at this point is to continue to take action through organizations designed to protect consumers. IIRC, California has very strong pro-consumer laws, so there might be some cheaper cause of action in there as well. Hiring someone to draft a nastygram might not be a terrible idea either if you really want to burn bridges but try to force a result.
I mean, there's certainly the basis for a lawsuit here. Whether it would accomplish anything beyond earning the lawyer a retainer is something else entirely...
