The BRJ Black Friday Thread (Only for updates for/by customers.)[Ad Free]

[Rev2010]

All this talk about bankruptcy. For him to file for bankruptcy he would have to show that his corporation simply had no money or assets to continue on. If he collected all this money from people but didn't deliver a product then how would his business be bankrupt? In addition, correct me if I'm wrong and someone knows for sure, but a business owner that is incorporated simply can not just use all his companies monies for personal reasons, even be it for health costs - which also if he was pulling in that much cash I'm sure he'd have paid the money for insurance, if not for the sole reason to cover his family as well. That would be called embezzling no?:

Embezzling | Define Embezzling at Dictionary.com


em·bez·zle
[em-bez-uhl] Show IPA
verb (used with object), em·bez·zled, em·bez·zling.
to appropriate fraudulently to one's own use, as money or property entrusted to one's care.


Rev.

 

[canuck brian]

Just a thought, I wonder if any other well-known luthiers would reach out to BRJ guitars out of the goodness of their hearts and help complete these instruments. I know I personally would take my knowledge and help set them up, do final assembly etc.

I'm not well-known, but I'd seriously work to help him out if i lived anywhere near Hesperia. I just wanna see guys get what they're due.

 

[kmanick]

Just a thought, I wonder if any other well-known luthiers would reach out to BRJ guitars out of the goodness of their hearts and help complete these instruments. I know I personally would take my knowledge and help set them up, do final assembly etc.

I was thinking this as well. I think Neil Moser is local he does great work,
If Bernie still has any of this money he could set something up with Neil
to finsih off anything that "is almost there", as long as Neil gets paid that is.

 

[spawnsc]

Well seems I lost my claim to the $700 that the bank issued me. the bank is retracting it on April 3 due to the time frame. So angry.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I was thinking this as well. I think Neil Moser is local he does great work,
If Bernie still has any of this money he could set something up with Neil
to finsih off anything that "is almost there", as long as Neil gets paid that is.

I think the last thing Neal Moser wants to do is help Bernie. They have a lot of history, not much positive.

 

[kmanick]

I think the last thing Neal Moser wants to do is help Bernie. They have a lot of history, not much positive.

well that sucks , Neil does great work.
Geez at this point who Hasn't Bernie pissed off???

 

[mountainjam]

Neil is in Arizona and not friends with the Rico family as Max mentioned.

 

[teleofseven]

i just knew that as soon as the statement by his wife would hit the headlines, so to speak, people would immediately go basicly from "fuck you bernie, gimme my money back" to "i give all my love and prayers to bernie getting better"... seriously. WHAT THE FUCK!?

bernie has a looooong history of shady moves. for all we know this all could be just another excuse. he could however be trying to get out of the mess he's gotten himself into, by appearing mentally unwell. most likely just to avoid legal issues. and angry customers demanding their money back.

(hell. it's america, he could also be hiding his ass from mobs some other crap that he might have gotten himself messed into xD)

so forget bernie, focus on getting legal advice for getting your money back. none of us seem to be lawyers here, so it's utterly pointless to keep whining about loosing your money here. it may help to take off some of that anger towards him, but it's getting you nowhere in terms of getting your money back. which, as of this point, is all you can hope for anymore.

cause bernie rico guitars, is truly done for. no hope of getting your guitar done. turn all your effort NOW into getting your money back. do not try to contact bernie. he will not respond, nor will anybody else. seek legal counsel.

to all who can get that to their heads. good luck!

 

[Hollowway]

I just talked with a lawyer. I had a couple questions for him that I'll outline here as statements:
1) you can't get a warrant or something with a cop to go into the shop and get your guitar.
2) suing him now has no bearing on him getting out of it if he declares bankruptcy, so there's no advantage to suing now in that particular regard.
3) it's not likely that his hospital stay could delay a small claims court date, but its possible.

 

[Dommak89]

2) suing him now has no bearing on him getting out of it if he declares bankruptcy, so there's no advantage to suing now in that particular regard.

I might be wrong, since the European law might be different and I don't know how far you will go, but usually a small business is owner is liable with his personal assets. That being said, if a company has no cash, it has to file a petition for bankruptcy. Then the creditor with the highest claims will get a refund, just paritally, but still it's a refund. And then it goes down the ladder.

I hope that makes sense and that I explained it right. Never had to explain it English before.

But I assume you're economic law doesn't differ that much from the European, but again, I can be wrong.

 

[flexkill]

Because, some of Bernie's customers, myself included, actually realize that a human being is more important than any dollar figure. All this nonsense about approaching Theresa is cold. A little humanity would be nice, and I AM a BRJ customer, so don't even go there.

This will all get sorted out, but I would chop A BRJ guitar into PIECES if I thought it could magically help the man.

This woman is going through a lot, and she doesn't need anymore bullshit.

It's called humanity.

Ummmm this sounds good and all, but this sounds funny coming from a guy who originally wouldn't take responsibility for a guitar he sent poorly packaged and basically told the guy to go fuck himself. Where is the "Human being is more important" slant on that one?

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/217026-need-advice-bad-deal-forum-member.html

Just saying man....

 

[UnderTheSign]

I think the last thing Neal Moser wants to do is help Bernie. They have a lot of history, not much positive.

I'm not sure what Neals relationship to Jr is but yeah... Him and Sr weren't the best of friends I believe. Also, Neal moved to Arizona a year or so ago so he isn't a local anymore.

 

[teleofseven]

I might be wrong, since the European law might be different and I don't know how far you will go, but usually a small business is owner is liable with his personal assets. That being said, if a company has no cash, it has to file a petition for bankruptcy. Then the creditor with the highest claims will get a refund, just paritally, but still it's a refund. And then it goes down the ladder.

most likely the money will be ripped from the assets and material the company has. but yes i think if you declare the company bankrupt then the owner doesn't have to pay. but sometimes, like in the case of my brother, the smaller and younger companies have done pretty risky moves to get a loan for the company. say, on paper, sold their own house to the company to use the house as deposit (or is guarantee the right word?) for that loan. so if the company goes bust, guess where they take back that loan. the house. (don't worry, my brothers company is doing fine, he still has his house )

3) it's not likely that his hospital stay could delay a small claims court date, but its possible.

did you mention that he's apparently in a closed psych ward? from what i understand, you can't pull a patient out from a place like that for legal proceedings or such. i could be wrong.

but it's just because of that fact that he supposedly is in there, that the company is basicly, effectively, shut down, and maybe for good.
so again, don't put your hopes on ever seeing your guitar done.

 

[BIG ND SWEATY]

Ummmm this sounds good and all, but this sounds funny coming from a guy who originally wouldn't take responsibility for a guitar he sent poorly packaged and basically told the guy to go fuck himself. Where is the "Human being is more important" slant on that one?

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/217026-need-advice-bad-deal-forum-member.html

Just saying man....

thats a can of worms i dont think anyone wants to be opened again.

 

[flexkill]

thats a can of worms i dont think anyone wants to be opened again.

You are probably right....sorry for that. Something just doesn't sit right with me is all....but again....you are right and I again apologize.

 

[Jonathan20022]

You are probably right....sorry for that. Something just doesn't sit right with me is all....but again....you are right and I again apologize.

Yeah, I recommend deleting that before this gets out of hand.

This is really saddening, I can hope you all get what you guys paid for eventually but right now it seems pretty indefinite.

 

[JPMike]

Just saw the post, since I was out of home all day, so finally someone said something.

I wish the best for the Rico family and all to go good. Having mental illness is really the worst thing someone can have. What's a healthy body without a healthy mind. Those 2 are linked as one.

What concerns me though is, that I have invested $12k on BRJ. What am I supposed to do now? What we the international guys can do?

Honestly, I feel so annoyed right now.

 

[potatohead]

I understand the pure fucked-up-titude of this whole situation but... do you have any experience at all running a small business, especially an artisan one??? My fiance's father was a luthier (high end acoustics), he died of an aneurism a few years ago. Let me tell you, there's no plan in place for something like that. I don't know details as to how things played out with customers he was building for at the time, but it more or less financially ruined his wife, even after life insurance. I know that that's very different from the situation here, but try to be realistic about how things work. There's almost never a safety net like you're talking about with small businesses.

I've worked for one for eight years. Yes, there is. Anything else is ridiculous. It's like living your life and owning a bunch of assets and not having a will, only in that scenario only your family is screwed over, not a few hundred customers.

 

[teleofseven]

Just saw the post, since I was out of home all day, so finally someone said something.

I wish the best for the Rico family and all to go good. Having mental illness is really the worst thing someone can have. What's a healthy body without a healthy mind. Those 2 are linked as one.

What concerns me though is, that I have invested $12k on BRJ. What am I supposed to do now? What we the international guys can do?

Honestly, I feel so annoyed right now.

i get feeling sorry for the family i guess. but man 12k?!?!

but hey, i suggest reading earlier posts. get legal advice. cause 12k is quite a serious ammount of money in this biz. especially when BRJ is basicly now done for. there's no hope of ever getting you guitars done. just try to get your money back.

and contacting bernie won't work anymore (as if it ever did) cause he's in a closed psych ward. (means no internetz, no walkie talkies, nothing.)

 

[Hollowway]

Just saw the post, since I was out of home all day, so finally someone said something.

I wish the best for the Rico family and all to go good. Having mental illness is really the worst thing someone can have. What's a healthy body without a healthy mind. Those 2 are linked as one.

What concerns me though is, that I have invested $12k on BRJ. What am I supposed to do now? What we the international guys can do?

Honestly, I feel so annoyed right now.

Yep. When I talked with the lawyer I told him there were likely about 100 of us with money between $400 and $12K. Sorry you had to be the high end in this one, dude!

So, to discuss the issue about personal assets being attached, that is definitely true for unincorporated businesses. But he is incorporated, so that means we can only get to the assets if the corp, like the guitars, equipment, etc. on the other hand, if he hasn't established enough of a separation between his person and his corp, then it could be established that he really is the corp (ie the corporate veil is pierced) and then all of his personal assets are liable. The onus of showing to the outside world that you are a corp is to make it obvious in your dealing with customers. Unless he has a fictitious name permit for the name he has on his website, cases, velvet tool bags, etc, then that's already a big no no.
Regarding him being in the hospital, I'm not exactly sure how that would play out. If you sue a corp I'm not sure that the president needs to be the one in small claims court. It could be that someone else would go in his stead. I'm not sure, but I'm still looking into it. I think my first pass is a letter indicating that I'd like a refund or the guitar as it is now (it's been glossed, but that's it). If that gets me nowhere then I'll do the small claims thing. I'm honestly IMG to hang in there if I had any hope whatsoever that this would come to a resolution. But I've got this plus the rebuild for the full custom just in limbo, and I personally need some sort of resolution.