The BRJ Black Friday Thread (Only for updates for/by customers.)[Ad Free]

[killertone]

Just got a reply from BBB


"We have closed our file and we appreciate your using Business Consumer Alliance. This complaint will remain in our file on this company and will be a part of the report we issue to the public.

If we can assist you in the future, please contact us.

Thank you."



And the response:


Company's Final Response - Posted 03/27/2013
"To all of Bernie's customer's, we first want to express our gratefulness for your support regarding Bernie Rico Jr. guitars. We first want to apologize for the lack of communication during the past several months and CERTAINLY understand your concerns and frustrations. These past several months have been extremely difficult times for the Rico family regarding Bernie's health issues. We seem to take our "well being" for granted, and when suddenly faced with a challenge, are not prepared for the burden it creates. It was never our intention to keep you, the customer, out of the loop in regards to Bernie's status and the status of your order(s), and in retrospect, wish we could have handled the situation differently. However, with the challenges that we, the Rico family, faced during the past several months, our primary focus was for Bernie to simply recover, so that he could come back to his family. Bernie's intentions are to resume working soon, so that he can finish your orders that you have waited so patiently for. We will keep you posted on when Bernie will be back in the shop. He is getting better every day and we are hopeful he will be back with his family soon."

That was the response that BRJG sent to the BBB?

 

[Hollowway]

Yeah, that sounds like the response. Which, honestly, is good news. I think we've pretty well established that the odds of us actually getting money aren't that great. So the likely best scenario is that he gets back to work and bangs these out. It's possible that what they're saying here is fluff, but that would only strengthen any of our cases if he did try to scoot out of the responsibility. The best case scenario for HIM and his family is also to get back into that shop and finish these orders. I'm not sure what you do as a 3rd generation luthier if you leave 300 customers high and dry and declare bankruptcy, but I doubt Bernie wants to go get a regular job like the rest of us. Color me naive, but I'm more optimistic now than I was yesterday.

 

[berzerkergang]

I will keep this short. I have a friend that until the speech from Bernie's wife had heard nothing about his guitar since he paid the deposit. His words were basically that there's a load of violins being played for Bernie right now but there's been absolutely no business related information relayed to the customers with money tied up in this. If his wife wants him to get better, she better work with him quickly to figure out a plan because he certainly isn't going to get better mentally with a couple hundred lawsuits on his back.

 

[tabqwerty]

So... when are visiting hours?

 

[JPMike]

Yeah, that sounds like the response. Which, honestly, is good news. I think we've pretty well established that the odds of us actually getting money aren't that great. So the likely best scenario is that he gets back to work and bangs these out. It's possible that what they're saying here is fluff, but that would only strengthen any of our cases if he did try to scoot out of the responsibility. The best case scenario for HIM and his family is also to get back into that shop and finish these orders. I'm not sure what you do as a 3rd generation luthier if you leave 300 customers high and dry and declare bankruptcy, but I doubt Bernie wants to go get a regular job like the rest of us. Color me naive, but I'm more optimistic now than I was yesterday.

I won't lie to you that the same thoughts float in my head. If you read my previous posts I believe you will get the same vibe. I feel that somehow things will get better and guitars will start getting delivered. Maybe not as soon as we want, but they will be coming.

So... when are visiting hours?

Haha, this made me laugh!!

 

[HeadBender]

I won't lie to you that the same thoughts float in my head. If you read my previous posts I believe you will get the same vibe. I feel that somehow things will get better and guitars will start getting delivered. Maybe not as soon as we want, but they will be coming.




Haha, this made me laugh!!

I wonder if after getting back to "business" will he take up new orders....if so that will be a disaster.

Obviously it would be a source of funds, but if he takes up more orders, geez it will collapse.

 

[ovation22]

Hollowway, if you think the odds of us actually getting money aren't that great, I'm sorry to say the odds of anyone getting a guitar out of that shop are slim to none.

But I admire your optimism.

 

[jbard]

I'd at least like to get my BKPs back. =\

 

[Rap Hat]

In the end I definitely want a guitar more than money, but even if Bernie gets back to work I'm still terrified of a deluge of issues. I'm not entirely sure how this is going to happen either, because unless Bernie has a large cash reserve or can get loans he's not going to be able to pay the wood shop and paint guys. I'd hate to see him take in a bunch of new orders for cash... Still gonna pursue a legal avenue though, not giving up yet!


I was just looking back at some ancient records of mine, and the psych hospital I stayed at was a bit over $2,000 a day. I was there for 2 months. So around $120,000 (it was actually a bit more because there was an intake fee, meds, food, etc.) In my case insurance covered some of it, but it was still an absolutely crazy amount of money considering I was 15 at the time. The price has gone up since then too.

 

[SpaceDock]

Yeah, that sounds like the response. Which, honestly, is good news. I think we've pretty well established that the odds of us actually getting money aren't that great. So the likely best scenario is that he gets back to work and bangs these out. It's possible that what they're saying here is fluff, but that would only strengthen any of our cases if he did try to scoot out of the responsibility. The best case scenario for HIM and his family is also to get back into that shop and finish these orders. I'm not sure what you do as a 3rd generation luthier if you leave 300 customers high and dry and declare bankruptcy, but I doubt Bernie wants to go get a regular job like the rest of us. Color me naive, but I'm more optimistic now than I was yesterday.

This, I dont think we would get much out of him through the courts, so late is better than never.

 

[Diggi]

Terry and I exchanged messages this morning. She said:

"I spoke with Bernie last night, he seemed to be very positive and motivated to get back to work!!"

I believe her assessment of Bernie and his motivation at the moment. I do so because I developed a relationship with Bernie after Keith introduced us and we began working on a build together. Like many of you, my conversations with him were always more than 2 words, and his desire to do things the way he'd been taught seemed to always be at the forefront of his mind. Bernie and I talked about more than guitars, and became friends as a result.

I can't say I know Bernie like his family does, or even as well (as deep) as his other friends, but I believe in my impression of him and that impression has always been good, honest and truthful.

The way his departure was handled and communicated was an abomination in my eyes however. It wasn't done correctly, or with much thought about how his customers would handle (not just his lack of communication but,) the fallout of all the posts, possible lawsuits and anger that were justified as a result. The Rico family’s decision not to talk to the BRJ customers was abjectly unconscionable. We deserved then, and deserve now - the best and most frequent updates on when guitars will be completed, and I have communicated this to Terry many times, and in as many convincing ways I can muster. In the end, I think no one in Bernie's family knew just how serious this could get and had no idea how many guitars were left unfinished. I'll bet he made a conscious decision not to involve his Wife and daughter because he knew that it would be devastating for them to handle. BUT, he SHOULD have given the reigns of that big, overwhelming and hard to handle horse to SOMEONE that COULD, someone that would communicate with his customers and the public about his situation.

Looking back in these pages, I see what I think is my guitar, almost finished and needing hardware. I "think" it is the red Jekyll pictured with two other guitars several pages back. I'm not positive though. I started a build/ progress thread about it some time ago on SS.org but changed hosting and the pic url's disappeared. I thought it pointless at that time to repost them as all the trouble had started by that time.

One other thing; Paul Ortiz and I are friends. After the debacle with that white Jekyll Bernie sent him, Paul sent it to me. It needed some serious repairs and those repairs were done by a very competent local Luthier. The guitar eventually made it to Todd (other guitarist in my little band) and he had more work done to it which included an insane graphical upgrade. Once the repairs were made, it played so much better. Todd replaced the stock pups with Lundgren 8's and it now sounds massive. We used that guitar exclusively on our new record (in mix process now with Daniel Bergstrand)

Any way,

I just wanted to pop on here and give my assessment of the future (and my past) with BRJ. I think Bernie will be back to work soon, and we'll start to see guitars moving out the door, in better finished condition that some that people received while Bernie was battling his mental health problems.

Caveat: All of my opinions come from an amalgamation of conversations I've had with Bernie, and the conversations I've had with Terry over the past many months.

Joel

 

[berzerkergang]

By the time Bernie is back to work, in my opinion he only has one option. Satisfy all outstanding orders and then close the company. If he doesn't have the money to finish the guitars, take out a loan or something along those lines to get them finished. He has loads of skill so after all this he could easily get a job with one of the many reputable guitar manufacturing giants. Any company would be better off having his experience. Maybe on the design side of things or what not, perhaps doing custom shop stuff who knows. Just something where he's not doing it all on his own.

Get well, finish guitars, close company, move on with life. That is the best option and in my opinion the only option for Bernie Rico at this time. If he was to take even ONE new order after this, he should be blacklisted across the board.

 

[Captain Butterscotch]

I don't necessarily think he should close his company. Obviously, and without a question, his company's name is dirtier than mud at the moment. But, I think that after a few years that he can regain the prestige that he once had. If he hires someone (ANYONE) to handle the customer communication and takes on less orders, then it is realistic that he will eventually gain his name back.

 

[Tesla]

At the very least he should make the run of backorders he currently has into a special 'limited edition' run and give it a fancy name and/or logo. That way the guitars would hold a special value to any of the customers wishing to sell them on in future.

I'm sure they will already have an infamous stigma about them, but to be able to officially prove it would be a good factor. And a nice gesture to the clients that are waiting so damn long.

 

[7stringkeke]

Small claims accepted. Got my court date...

 

[Diggi]

At the very least he should make the run of backorders he currently has into a special 'limited edition' run and give it a fancy name and/or logo. That way the guitars would hold a special value to any of the customers wishing to sell them on in future.

I'm sure they will already have an infamous stigma about them, but to be able to officially prove it would be a good factor. And a nice gesture to the clients that are waiting so damn long.

^^ That's a GREAT idea.

 

[Rev2010]

^^ That's a GREAT idea.

Actually, I think the opposite - that it would be a terrible idea. People would want guitars with the logo "pre-problem" time. Anyone knowing what has happened with this whole fiasco will think, if he actually does ever catch up and finish these guitars, that they are of inferior build quality. Not saying they actually would be but people will no doubt think that. Then there's the issue of guitars that might be so close to done or actually done that couldn't be altered.


Rev.

 

[Diggi]

Actually, I think the opposite - that it would be a terrible idea. People would want guitars with the logo "pre-problem" time. Anyone knowing what has happened with this whole fiasco will think, if he actually does ever catch up and finish these guitars, that they are of inferior build quality. Not saying they actually would be but people will no doubt think that. Then there's the issue of guitars that might be so close to done or actually done that couldn't be altered.


Rev.

^^ If that's how it was approached and presumed/ marketed, I too think it would be a bad idea.

But 20 years from now, when (hopefully) Bernie is making guitars the way he USED to (flawless), then that monicker, identifier of the period in which these back-ordered guitars were built, might have some positive memories and perceived value. But no one knows at this point..... he could be in jail or dead by the time all of the proposed lawsuits or other actions against him are finished.

Admittedly, now that you mentioned your objection to the idea, I must think more on it.

 

[JPMike]

Getting new orders after he's back to business is not an option for sure.

We all keep making assumptions of what's happening and what's going on, etc. We don't really know how serious or not it's the situation regarding his mental illness. And no offense to anyone, but being a little optimistic, a bit forgiving and more compassionate won't hurt. I just want to think for the best and get results out of this. Maybe when he's back he will be making even better guitars than he did. What I really want is Bernie actually hire the right people for this and make it go smooth. I might sound a bit harsh, but this is his last chance not to fuck up and actually deliver. This should be a lesson for him not to go through the same mistakes.

What Joel informed us about Terry's communication with Bernie, is really encouraging and actually gave me even more hope.

 

[WickedSymphony]

Admittedly, now that you mentioned your objection to the idea, I must think more on it.

Rev's post was my first thought when I read it as well. Not to mention people could also associate it with the whole BFR deal and the lower prices the guitars went for, driving the overall value downward even more.