It's not just about seeking reparations, that window has closed to a certain degree for many. It's a bummer, but that's what inaction does.
What needs to happen is legal recourse.
What needs to happen is legal recourse.
The BRJ Black Friday Thread (Only for updates for/by customers.)[Ad Free]
- Thread starter aslsmm
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Diggi
Well-Known Member
I think if people here banded together and demanded answers from BRJ, they'd be more likely to get a response. I've read SO many posts stating "it'd cost me too much to hire a lawyer" (to get their money back) and wouldn't be "worth it". I'm of the opinion that most (NOT EVERYONE) are making this assumption without even a modicum of research into this possibility and simply don't want to call a lawyer, or 10 layers to see what they could do to recoup even a portion of their money. Talking about it on a forum might seem therapeutic, and it is for many, but this is not where BRJ will ultimately hear your voice. With a chorus of demands, you'll achieve more (IMO) than by speaking as individuals, and by all means, don't scream at HIM here. Get your name on a list, and someone FedEx it to his shop, signature required.
I'm sensing a bit of apathy on the part of some when considering the recovery of their deposits (or full payments), and I DO have empathy for those who simply don't want more hassle in their lives. Humans are non-confrontational by nature and I have witnessed just that over the course of my life-time. There are exceptions indeed, but in most cases I think we as humans just want it "to be over" - one way or the other, and not DRAG out the suffering.
But do yourself a favor, don't let people or circumstances dictate what is right or wrong in your lives - it is your responsibility to take what is yours in this world, be it with kindness or with force, if need be. If you don't make that effort, then the outcome is certain. If you do, there is a chance... and I believe what all people want is what is theirs, and to feel as though they didn't ALLOW someone to dictate, trample on or take advantage of their honesty, trust, loyalty and happiness.
I say all of this knowing full-well that we have fists, for a reason.
Start slingin' those arrows -
Ps.
I'm happy to help in any way I can... starting with paying someone to make a visit to Hesperia.
gerrawar
Member
i've been waiting my guitar for almost 2 years! as jpmike, i live abroad 
but i wish i could visit hesperia to finally se what's going on with our orders!
but i wish i could visit hesperia to finally se what's going on with our orders!
- I agree that a large group action is the best possible route.
- I have considered small claims court in California; however, you must be present and I live out of state.
- There are several mentions on the CA small claims court site talking about how difficult it will be to collect, even if you receive judgement: Collecting your judgment can be one of the most difficult parts of your small claims case. Remember, the court cannot collect the money for you.
It's not so easy to just say "take action". Also, is everyone giving advice waiting for a refund or a guitar? Or do you have personal experience with this scenario? Please include these details.
I am also in the unfortunate position of buying my spot from a member here and paying them through PP. So, I do not have a direct payment to BRJ. He has acknowledged the payment, sent pictures, and talked on the phone.
I would be more than happy to support a group action!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- I have considered small claims court in California; however, you must be present and I live out of state.
- There are several mentions on the CA small claims court site talking about how difficult it will be to collect, even if you receive judgement: Collecting your judgment can be one of the most difficult parts of your small claims case. Remember, the court cannot collect the money for you.
It's not so easy to just say "take action". Also, is everyone giving advice waiting for a refund or a guitar? Or do you have personal experience with this scenario? Please include these details.
I am also in the unfortunate position of buying my spot from a member here and paying them through PP. So, I do not have a direct payment to BRJ. He has acknowledged the payment, sent pictures, and talked on the phone.
I would be more than happy to support a group action!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lirtle
Well-Known Member
yes
slayercannibalsuffohead
Well-Known Member
Well, I've read every page on this thread so far and I can not believe it is still actually going! It's like watching a mate in a relationship and seeing his misses shag everyone else bar him. I mean, how many months, and how many warning signs were needed at the end? Divorce should of happened 6 months ago (at least) and (80 pages ago) and it would of been far less messy than it is now!
I'm probably the luckiest customer (owed around $500 in parts), but I'm not going to sit here typing out *head butting brickwall* icons, and *hand over face* icons time and time again. I tried to get what was mine back, weighed up the cost involved and put it down to a lose and a lesson learned at least a year ago. I am now the proud owner of guitar with the wrong hardware, "handcrafted" by an absolute scumbag called Bernie Rico Jr. It feels worse than it looks, believe me.
I feel for those whom have full customs placed with the idiot, as the greed from both parties (BFR) has eventually led to them not receiving and/or getting a refund. You blokes are truly the victims in all of this, and as such, deserve to be looked after first and formost with whatever outcome arises.
The BFR was originally only a tiny run, no upgrades/spec swaps. That was it. Then "greed" kicked in on Bernies behalf with the numbers, then people jumped on it, and after that, the "greed" then came from a few here to start swapping specs and hardware etc, thinking that they will receive some type of "godlike" guitar for bugger all, in an incredible amount of time (90 days)! 1st signs of stupidity right there! First signs of Bernie's business brains failing at this point as well.
Thread starts to go on a downward spiral 30 odd pages in, and in true fashion here, has a few peaks on the way to 155 pages. 120 pages and nearly 2 years of info, and there were people still buying spots, gathering their 7th guitar etc, just adding to the agony of those who have had orders for 3+ years.
Yet, with all the info and all the bullshit from Rico himself, nothing was done. Talk, talk, talk and if, if, if. And while all this was going on, Bernie obviously read all this, and kept planning his next lies with what he had read.
"Bernie obviously has no computer skills". Wow, this one I couldn't buy. If the man can shoot a video on his phone for his Meshuggah client and post it on youtube, I'm willing to bet he knows a little about email! Then we had a few pages discussing how "non technical" Bernie is and how he "doesn't have time" to answer as he is busy building etc. Oh, and the "Gee his a good bloke" got about 50 pages worth of this thread.
Then when shit really hit the fan, the best one was "I'd go down to the shop, but it's like a 2-3 hour drive"! WTF! These are some of the thoughts and posts that have fuelled Bernie to do what he has done, and that is why he has gotten away with it for so long. Always a step ahead, reading through some of the most gullible stuff I have read in a long time, and the end result?
It's harsh, but it's true. Bernie is not 100% to blame here. It's at least 80/20. With the greed from both sides, and most wanting a bargain, everyone has lost out. As I said before, I really feel for those guys with full customs. They have had to sit here and watch queue jumping, where's mine, NGDs etc. Now there are posts on "banding together". When will it ever stop?
I think this thread should suspended, and stickied as a valuable learning resource on a finicky industry. We, as a whole have fed the lion, taught the lion, and undisciplined the lion. I am not familiar with American culture, but here in Australia, we would drive 3000kms to his shop if this shit was happening here! Most of these pages contain a cross breed of gullibleness and christian values, that when mixed together, let people like Bernie get away with what they are doing.
This thread should be suspended for now for 3 months. That will give everyone here a big reality check and get those who wish to get off their backsides and work hard at a resolution the opportunity to do it by themselves without any more interruptions/glimmer of hope from those who are just kicking in here "hoping" that something will be done! Open her up again on a later date, and then see who was actually fair dinkum about getting a swift fast result.
Because, as it stands, Bernie is a chance at becoming a 2nd Jesus, and will rise from the dead after a fatal car crash or some other bullshit event and this thread will keep on enduring the same recycled garbage time and time again.
Just remeber, he is not your "f@$%ing mate", he's not a "good bloke" and his guitars are not head and shoulders above every guitar out there!
If we can take anything out of this mess it would be;
1. Respect the 1st initial build instructions.
2. If things don't go right, legal action, not 100 pages of hope/crap.
3. Unless you get christmas cards, invited to weddings/birthdays etc, they are not your friends, (nor is their family).
4. If it's too good to be true, it probably is.
5. If someone is going to serve you up a plate full of lies, please don't sit down to a 30 head banquet.
6. If there is going to be "group action", leave it to 3 with "smarts".
7. If you are 2-3 hours away from said shop - DRIVE THERE!
8. Can it on it's head A.S.A.P. 2 years of restless nights etc is no way worth it in the end.
9. Don't ever get caught up in the "I don't want to go to court over it, as it might upset him" syndrome.
..... and finally, look back through the whole thread, and ask yourself, (and be honest), with all the lies etc, how did I let it get to this, and (for some others), why am I still sending this bloke money?
I really can not fathom how this has turned out. I show others this thread, and all of them come back saying, "I can't believe they believed all that as a whole". *Please do something about your individual circumstances now*.
I'm probably the luckiest customer (owed around $500 in parts), but I'm not going to sit here typing out *head butting brickwall* icons, and *hand over face* icons time and time again. I tried to get what was mine back, weighed up the cost involved and put it down to a lose and a lesson learned at least a year ago. I am now the proud owner of guitar with the wrong hardware, "handcrafted" by an absolute scumbag called Bernie Rico Jr. It feels worse than it looks, believe me.
I feel for those whom have full customs placed with the idiot, as the greed from both parties (BFR) has eventually led to them not receiving and/or getting a refund. You blokes are truly the victims in all of this, and as such, deserve to be looked after first and formost with whatever outcome arises.
The BFR was originally only a tiny run, no upgrades/spec swaps. That was it. Then "greed" kicked in on Bernies behalf with the numbers, then people jumped on it, and after that, the "greed" then came from a few here to start swapping specs and hardware etc, thinking that they will receive some type of "godlike" guitar for bugger all, in an incredible amount of time (90 days)! 1st signs of stupidity right there! First signs of Bernie's business brains failing at this point as well.
Thread starts to go on a downward spiral 30 odd pages in, and in true fashion here, has a few peaks on the way to 155 pages. 120 pages and nearly 2 years of info, and there were people still buying spots, gathering their 7th guitar etc, just adding to the agony of those who have had orders for 3+ years.
Yet, with all the info and all the bullshit from Rico himself, nothing was done. Talk, talk, talk and if, if, if. And while all this was going on, Bernie obviously read all this, and kept planning his next lies with what he had read.
"Bernie obviously has no computer skills". Wow, this one I couldn't buy. If the man can shoot a video on his phone for his Meshuggah client and post it on youtube, I'm willing to bet he knows a little about email! Then we had a few pages discussing how "non technical" Bernie is and how he "doesn't have time" to answer as he is busy building etc. Oh, and the "Gee his a good bloke" got about 50 pages worth of this thread.
Then when shit really hit the fan, the best one was "I'd go down to the shop, but it's like a 2-3 hour drive"! WTF! These are some of the thoughts and posts that have fuelled Bernie to do what he has done, and that is why he has gotten away with it for so long. Always a step ahead, reading through some of the most gullible stuff I have read in a long time, and the end result?
It's harsh, but it's true. Bernie is not 100% to blame here. It's at least 80/20. With the greed from both sides, and most wanting a bargain, everyone has lost out. As I said before, I really feel for those guys with full customs. They have had to sit here and watch queue jumping, where's mine, NGDs etc. Now there are posts on "banding together". When will it ever stop?
I think this thread should suspended, and stickied as a valuable learning resource on a finicky industry. We, as a whole have fed the lion, taught the lion, and undisciplined the lion. I am not familiar with American culture, but here in Australia, we would drive 3000kms to his shop if this shit was happening here! Most of these pages contain a cross breed of gullibleness and christian values, that when mixed together, let people like Bernie get away with what they are doing.
This thread should be suspended for now for 3 months. That will give everyone here a big reality check and get those who wish to get off their backsides and work hard at a resolution the opportunity to do it by themselves without any more interruptions/glimmer of hope from those who are just kicking in here "hoping" that something will be done! Open her up again on a later date, and then see who was actually fair dinkum about getting a swift fast result.
Because, as it stands, Bernie is a chance at becoming a 2nd Jesus, and will rise from the dead after a fatal car crash or some other bullshit event and this thread will keep on enduring the same recycled garbage time and time again.
Just remeber, he is not your "f@$%ing mate", he's not a "good bloke" and his guitars are not head and shoulders above every guitar out there!
If we can take anything out of this mess it would be;
1. Respect the 1st initial build instructions.
2. If things don't go right, legal action, not 100 pages of hope/crap.
3. Unless you get christmas cards, invited to weddings/birthdays etc, they are not your friends, (nor is their family).
4. If it's too good to be true, it probably is.
5. If someone is going to serve you up a plate full of lies, please don't sit down to a 30 head banquet.
6. If there is going to be "group action", leave it to 3 with "smarts".
7. If you are 2-3 hours away from said shop - DRIVE THERE!
8. Can it on it's head A.S.A.P. 2 years of restless nights etc is no way worth it in the end.
9. Don't ever get caught up in the "I don't want to go to court over it, as it might upset him" syndrome.
..... and finally, look back through the whole thread, and ask yourself, (and be honest), with all the lies etc, how did I let it get to this, and (for some others), why am I still sending this bloke money?
I really can not fathom how this has turned out. I show others this thread, and all of them come back saying, "I can't believe they believed all that as a whole". *Please do something about your individual circumstances now*.
spawnsc
Well-Known Member
Has anyone looked into doing this? FAQs About the FTC Refund Program | Consumer Information
If we all start here it might be a good start...
also I made a petition that will hopefully help http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/berniericojr/
If we all start here it might be a good start...
also I made a petition that will hopefully help http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/berniericojr/
MetalThrasher
Thrash & Burn
I hate reading this thread. What slayer said seems right. I bought a slot for a Vixen that was part of the run almost one year ago. I like V's so shoot me. This build was completely standard no mods or anything! I even have pics and at the time seemed almost complete. The person I bought the slot from notified Bernie and I received an email about a week later verifying the slot I purchased was now in my name which it is. Then the email states that my guitar is almost done and balance is due. So like an idiot I pay the balance with my credit card. Mind you this was back in August 2012. WTF is going on? I realize I may be screwed on my deposit but I can try and recover the bulk of it fighting the charge that was back in Aug 2012?
TemjinStrife
Power Metal Cellist
For actual legal action, the statute of limitations for a contract for the sale of goods under UCC § 2-275 is four years, and some jurisdictions may allow more time for actions resulting from fraudulent contracts for the sale of goods (assuming you can prove fraud in the appropriate jurisdiction). That's the expensive route, but it is open.
I'm not sure if you'd be able to bring a collective action in a way that aggregates claims and allows individuals to pool money to save on attorney costs, though. It would take a bit of research first.
I'm not sure if you'd be able to bring a collective action in a way that aggregates claims and allows individuals to pool money to save on attorney costs, though. It would take a bit of research first.
MetalThrasher
Thrash & Burn
I hate to say this but..... those out there who have paid in full if we can all pull together and set up a pool aside in a very moderated topic somehow we might be able to do this. It just depends on the number of people? Is it 10 or 100?
Jonathan20022
Engineer
Agreed completely, this thread should be locked temporarily so people will actually post in a new moderated thread with all the needed information. This isn't supposed to be therapeutic talking to others who aren't taking action, compile the list in a new thread and move forward is what I think needs to happen next.
Throwing out there a template.....
Guitars owed -
Money spent -
Deposit or full payment -
Date of deposit or bought spot -
International -
Bought spot from someone else? -
Legal action sought? -
Contact received throughout build -
Guitars owed -
Money spent -
Deposit or full payment -
Date of deposit or bought spot -
International -
Bought spot from someone else? -
Legal action sought? -
Contact received throughout build -
gerrawar
Member
sign it!
Tesla
Augmented User
Someone should post it on The BRJ Facebook too. (I would but I'm not on Facebook anymore)
Diggi
Well-Known Member
^ THIS
And, start a new thread detailing how the "action" will go down. AND, GET IN YOUR CAR AND MAKE A VISIT! Take 3 people, more......demand answers!!!
I filed a complaint with the FTC. Thanks for the suggestion.
I hope others will also file. Sadly, our complaints to the Better Business Bureau were not so productive.
Larrikin666
Deadite
Guitars owed - 6
Money spent - $5,850 to Bernie. About $2400 additional buying spots.
Deposit or full payment - Nothing paid in full
Date of deposit or bought spot - All over the map
International - No
Bought spot from someone else? - 4 of them
Legal action sought? - No
Contact received throughout build - Constant until 1/13
Last known state - Two not started, two ready for assembly, two ready for finish sanding/buffing
Money spent - $5,850 to Bernie. About $2400 additional buying spots.
Deposit or full payment - Nothing paid in full
Date of deposit or bought spot - All over the map
International - No
Bought spot from someone else? - 4 of them
Legal action sought? - No
Contact received throughout build - Constant until 1/13
Last known state - Two not started, two ready for assembly, two ready for finish sanding/buffing
JPMike
Totally Random
Guitars owed - 4
Money spent - $12,475
Deposit or full payment - Paid in Full 3 out of 4 builds. 1 build only deposit.
Date of deposit or bought spot - 1st Only Deposit: 8/6/2011, 2nd Full Payment: 8/26/2011, 3rd Full Payment: 10/21/2011, 4th Full Payment: 11/15/2011
International - Yes
Bought spot from someone else? - No
Legal action sought? - On the talk with my lawyer.
Contact received throughout build - On and Off, Waiting to know what's going on since last contact on 5/21/2013, he decided to answer to my messages. Still hasn't replied to my request regarding what's going on and updates.
Money spent - $12,475
Deposit or full payment - Paid in Full 3 out of 4 builds. 1 build only deposit.
Date of deposit or bought spot - 1st Only Deposit: 8/6/2011, 2nd Full Payment: 8/26/2011, 3rd Full Payment: 10/21/2011, 4th Full Payment: 11/15/2011
International - Yes
Bought spot from someone else? - No
Legal action sought? - On the talk with my lawyer.
Contact received throughout build - On and Off, Waiting to know what's going on since last contact on 5/21/2013, he decided to answer to my messages. Still hasn't replied to my request regarding what's going on and updates.
Guitars owed - 1
Money spent - $2200
Deposit or full payment - Full
Date of deposit or bought spot - 2-13-2012
International - No
Bought spot from someone else? - Yes, here
Legal action sought? - BBB, FTC
Contact received throughout build -email, phone, text Last Sept 2012
Money spent - $2200
Deposit or full payment - Full
Date of deposit or bought spot - 2-13-2012
International - No
Bought spot from someone else? - Yes, here
Legal action sought? - BBB, FTC
Contact received throughout build -email, phone, text Last Sept 2012
