The Carvin / Kiesel thread

[cip 123]

This company, everything is just so lazy. Slapping no returns on products just so they don't have to deal with things.

Clearly not even testing the cavities in JB200 to see if someone, God forbid, were to take out their active electronics and use regular pots. Or testing to see if they can fit other pickups aside from their own in, which you clearly can't.

Not even putting the correct nut on my JB200.

And while on the subject of trem cavities, why go to the trouble of putting lovely little brass inserts in the electronics cavity so they don't get stripped out after time...but not do the same with the trem cavity when it's going to get screwed or unscrewed an equal or greater amount.

This company!

 

[spudmunkey]

This company, everything is just so lazy. Slapping no returns on products just so they don't have to deal with things.

Clearly not even testing the cavities in JB200 to see if someone, God forbid, were to take out their active electronics and use regular pots. Or testing to see if they can fit other pickups aside from their own in, which you clearly can't.

Not even putting the correct nut on my JB200.

And while on the subject of trem cavities, why go to the trouble of putting lovely little brass inserts in the electronics cavity so they don't get stripped out after time...but not do the same with the trem cavity when it's going to get screwed or unscrewed an equal or greater amount.

This company!

It's not just the JB200C. They've used those mini pots in their guitars for years (decades?). Note: this isn't a defence. Just adding some info. Your JB200C isn't unique in that way.

As for pickups, they've gotten better over the yers. You say your JB200C has the active electronics...that means it was likely from the Carvin era, right? Carvin Audio made that module, and they haven't offered it for a few years. Since then, on all of their other models, they have enlarged the pickup cavities. Back when they wouldn't install other pickups at all, their routes were sized to tightly fit their pickups. Starting when they released the S22 covered pickups, they started giving larger routes to the pickup cavities. And again when they released their more standard-design "Kiesel" era pickups. And again when they released their new pickups covers, even for the 7-string pickups. Their "lazy" design, was trying to give a tight tolerance for their custom-designed, bespoke, in-house made pickups.

What sucks now is that their pickups routes, made to accomodate more pickups, look stupid (IMO). They are more square, and the gaps around the pickups are bigger. I much much preferred the tighter routes. But google any guitar company and "pickups don't fit" and you'll get results. Many ibanezes are even worse, because the routes for the tabs on the side are even smaller, and sometimes even triangular-shaped.

As for the trem cavity cover's lack of brass inserts, I agree, and there's also an excuse. Not a reason, but an excuse. And not a good one. They said that because the holes are drilled first, then the guitar is finished, then the inserts are driven in, that there's a high chance of the finish cracking around the holes, and if it's not covered by the cover plate, it means more work and more time on their end. Since it's not recessed, any cracks or chips wouldn't have a natural barrier to prevent it from spread out past the cover. Simple solution, though: drill those holes after the guitar is finished.

 

[cip 123]

As for the trem cavity cover's lack of brass inserts, I agree, and there's also an excuse. Not a reason, but an excuse. And not a good one. They said that because the holes are drilled first, then the guitar is finished, then the inserts are driven in, that there's a high chance of the finish cracking around the holes, and if it's not covered by the cover plate, it means more work and more time on their end. Since it's not recessed, any cracks or chips wouldn't have a natural barrier to prevent it from spread out past the cover. Simple solution, though: drill those holes after the guitar is finished.

I'm not going to touch on the pickup cavaties, it's just such a backwards way of designing especially since this guitar has pickup rings to hide "large cavities".

That's also a very odd way of thinking because low and behold...my trem holes are all cracked at the finish where the screws go in. Every one of them. Part of the reason I'm so pissed about the cover is that they look God awful. Cracked, air bubbles around every hole. And funnily enough the brass inserts in the control cavity look great. Not a crack around them.

 

[spudmunkey]

I'm not going to touch on the pickup cavaties, it's just such a backwards way of designing especially since this guitar has pickup rings to hide "large cavities".

Ahh, right. Since that specific model is the signature model, they didn't really veer much away from the standard spec. Even for the past few years, they won't do anything other than the blue flame unless it's without the 10-day trial...but my understanding is that it's as much up to the artist as it is to Kiesel. If they were going to not spend the time to upgrade the pickup routes on a model, it would be the model that isn't meant to be customized, and has pickup rings. Hmm...but it can also ship with the SD Perpetual burn pickup, so *some* sort of aftermarket pickups must fit.

 

[cip 123]

Ahh, right. Since that specific model is the signature model, they didn't really veer much away from the standard spec. Even for the past few years, they won't do anything other than the blue flame unless it's without the 10-day trial...but my understanding is that it's as much up to the artist as it is to Kiesel. If they were going to not spend the time to upgrade the pickup routes on a model, it would be the model that isn't meant to be customized, and has pickup rings. Hmm...but it can also ship with the SD Perpetual burn pickup, so *some* sort of aftermarket pickups must fit.

Mine is before the SD came out I believe, however that doesn't excuse the simple mindedness of not testing a guitar and thinking ahead. "No one will ever want to change pickups/electronics in this thing!" Yes. Yes I would actually.

I hope to God they have enlarged the routes because the pickup I'm trying to fit actually IS the Perpetual Burn.

Let's face it Jason isn't exactly able to test these, as much as changes are up to the artist Carvin as a company should put the best product out there, simple design flaws such as these are just silly. Not just for the customer but for Jason who is trusting them to release his legacy guitar. Now I'm sitting here with a guitar I can't wire because finding the correct pots is proving to be a wild goose chase. Oh and once I'm do find them I'll still have to get a new floyd nut to match the fretboard radius.

 

[wannabguitarist]

Mine is before the SD came out I believe, however that doesn't excuse the simple mindedness of not testing a guitar and thinking ahead. "No one will ever want to change pickups/electronics in this thing!" Yes. Yes I would actually.

This is a pretty ridiculous complaint. A product should be designed so it's easily modified? Bruh

 

[cip 123]

This is a pretty ridiculous complaint. A product should be designed so it's easily modified? Bruh

Yea cause no one in the history of guitar has wanted to modify their guitar...

It's not exactly a strong ask that you increase your pickup cavities by what, less than 1mm each side? Nah Just Carvin pickups, you can't use anything else.

It's not a strong ask to be able to fit regular sized pots in the control cavity? Nah just our mini pots and preamps, nothing else.

I personally haven't encountered a problem with pickup cavities on any of the Ibanez, Schecter, Schecter custom shop, LTD, Fender, Jericho, PRS, I've owned.

EDIT: I have encountered the frustratingly small Control cavities on Schecters but not the Pickup cavities issue on any other brand

 

[Albake21]

Yea cause no one in the history of guitar has wanted to modify their guitar...

It's not exactly a strong ask that you increase your pickup cavities by what, less than 1mm each side? Nah Just Carvin pickups, you can't use anything else.

It's not a strong ask to be able to fit regular sized pots in the control cavity? Nah just our mini pots and preamps, nothing else.

I personally haven't encountered a problem with pickup cavities on any of the Ibanez, Schecter, Schecter custom shop, LTD, Fender, Jericho, PRS, I've owned.

I've encountered all of these issues frustratingly more with Ibanez and Schecter. To the point of getting rid of them because modifying them was hell. I also want to add that most of these issues have been changed with Kiesel guitars in the past couple years. Not trying to defend Kiesel or any other company, but it is their job to sell you the guitar you ordered, not a guitar for you to buy and then rip it apart. That's on the buyer if they want to do that.

 

[cip 123]

I've encountered all of these issues frustratingly more with Ibanez and Schecter. To the point of getting rid of them because modifying them was hell. I also want to add that most of these issues have been changed with Kiesel guitars in the past couple years. Not trying to defend Kiesel or any other company, but it is their job to sell you the guitar you ordered, not a guitar for you to buy and then rip it apart. That's on the buyer if they want to do that.

I understand I have very specific points that I'm picking on them for, but it's such simple stuff that could've been avoided with some planning.

I love that these guitars are available and what they do for Jason both financially and socially, covering medical costs and getting his name out there. But again, such simple stuff.

 

[Drew]

This is a pretty ridiculous complaint. A product should be designed so it's easily modified? Bruh

Not at all - considering how prevalent aftermarket pickups are and how routine it is for guitarists to swap pickups, and considering even EMG finally bit the bullet and moved to a standard pickup shape and route size compatible with everyone else, I think that's pretty reasonable complaint - a similar analogy I think would be a car company making a car that comes with a non-standard tire size. "But why would you want to use anything other than the tires the car came with?"

Not singling you out specifically, but as a general observation... Considering the whole litany of QC issues we've seen since the Kiesel split and the frequent absolutely nightmarish customer service I've seen when something IS wrong in one of their guitars, I'm a little dumbfounded that people still roll the dice ordering from these guys, much less than anyone's willing to defend them. It's a pity, I wouldn't mind grabbing a reasonably affordable fixed bridge 8 string in something other than basswood, but no way am I buying anything from Kiesel.

 

[Albake21]

I think that's pretty reasonable complaint - a similar analogy I think would be a car company making a car that comes with a non-standard tire size. "But why would you want to use anything other than the tires the car came with?"

Sorry but that analogy doesn't apply here. Tires deteriorate over time and you have to change them. Pickups on the other hand do not. Pickups are picked or designed for that specific guitar. There is a reason Ibanez, Schecter and even Kiesel chose those pickups for that model. If you don't like them, that's on you, not them.

Don't get me wrong. In a perfect world I'd love more guitars to be open to modding, but that's just not the case.

 

[cip 123]

Sorry but that analogy doesn't apply here. Tires deteriorate over time and you have to change them. Pickups on the other hand do not. Pickups are picked or designed for that specific guitar. There is a reason Ibanez, Schecter and even Kiesel chose those pickups for that model. If you don't like them, that's on you, not them.

Don't get me wrong. In a perfect world I'd love more guitars to be open to modding, but that's just not the case.

Pickups do actually deteriorate over time.

 

[lurè]

Pickups do actually deteriorate over time.

You can have a slightly degaussed pickup after 50 years of normal use, but that shouldnt bother 99% of guitar players

 

[Drew]

Sorry but that analogy doesn't apply here. Tires deteriorate over time and you have to change them. Pickups on the other hand do not. Pickups are picked or designed for that specific guitar. There is a reason Ibanez, Schecter and even Kiesel chose those pickups for that model. If you don't like them, that's on you, not them.

Don't get me wrong. In a perfect world I'd love more guitars to be open to modding, but that's just not the case.

I have a dying Blaze bridge in my '91 Universe that says otherwise (it seems to have shorted out internally), but for the sake of discussion let's amend that to "why would you want to use anything other than the same tires that came with the car as replacement tires?"

Also, I thought it was pretty widely understood that most Ibanez stock pickups are junk because everyone just tosses them in favor of their favorite aftermarket set? I mean, I don't think anyone seriously believes that Ibanez legitimately thinks the V7/V8 set is the secret to unlocking tonal bliss in a RG.

 

[cip 123]

You can have a slightly degaussed pickup after 50 years of normal use, but that shouldnt bother 99% of guitar players

I've heard a lot of older Ibanez Jem/Universe have weaker pickups nowadays. I'm certainly not saying pickups should be replaced every couple of years, just that it does happen. Pickups do encounter problems and need replaced for a variety of reasons.

There are guys who will break pickups with their sweat.

 

[wannabguitarist]

Not at all - considering how prevalent aftermarket pickups are and how routine it is for guitarists to swap pickups, and considering even EMG finally bit the bullet and moved to a standard pickup shape and route size compatible with everyone else, I think that's pretty reasonable complaint - a similar analogy I think would be a car company making a car that comes with a non-standard tire size. "But why would you want to use anything other than the tires the car came with?"

I've had to modify pickups to fit them in various Ibanez RGs due to the triangular pickup tabs on some models. I have a hard time saying this is a poor design or that Ibanez is lazy; the guitar functions exactly as it should. It just sucks for people that want to modify the guitar. I'm pretty sure Kiesel routes are now the standard size and the old routes were made for their proprietary pickups.

Not singling you out specifically, but as a general observation... Considering the whole litany of QC issues we've seen since the Kiesel split and the frequent absolutely nightmarish customer service I've seen when something IS wrong in one of their guitars, I'm a little dumbfounded that people still roll the dice ordering from these guys, much less than anyone's willing to defend them. It's a pity, I wouldn't mind grabbing a reasonably affordable fixed bridge 8 string in something other than basswood, but no way am I buying anything from Kiesel.

I agree here. I love the guitars I've played, love the idea of buying from a local company, and I've actually had brief positive interactions with Jeff at SCCA events. Still not willing to take the risk on a new instrument because of the customer service issues I've seen on this site. Thankfully the used market is pretty good

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Guitars don't need to be LEGO sets.

Modding pickup tabs and finding weird pots is guitar modification child's play.

Sorry, I know it's a bummer when you don't expect that, but it's not like it's going to take special tools of tons of time and money.

The incorrect nut is absolute bullshit though.

 

[Drew]

I've had to modify pickups to fit them in various Ibanez RGs due to the triangular pickup tabs on some models. I have a hard time saying this is a poor design or that Ibanez is lazy; the guitar functions exactly as it should. It just sucks for people that want to modify the guitar. I'm pretty sure Kiesel routes are now the standard size and the old routes were made for their proprietary pickups.

Oh, I'm used to that, I find it an annoyance, but it's not a total deallbreaker.

But, using a non-standard pickup route size for the body of the pickup, meaning you'd have to re-route the guitar to use anything other than Kiesel pickups, is IMO a design flaw more than an annoyance. If they fixed it subsequently, great, but it's mind-boggling to me that it was ever a non-standard route in the first place.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

I've heard a lot of older Ibanez Jem/Universe have weaker pickups nowadays. I'm certainly not saying pickups should be replaced every couple of years, just that it does happen. Pickups do encounter problems and need replaced for a variety of reasons.

There are guys who will break pickups with their sweat.

it's more likely stuff like the switches or pots failing (or bad solder joints). pickups are pretty durable unless you mess with the coil wire.

 

[LeviathanKiller]

Got my Kiesel in today. I can't take pics right now that do the top justice really. I got satin finish crimson red over a black limba top. So it's a really dark red but it isn't just solid red. Kinda has a paintbrush effect to it with multiple red tones.

I'm surprised the pickups sound as good as they do. Nevertheless, they will be swapped once my Guitarmory sets arrive.

The neck was thicker than I hoped even though I order the THNN option. It's not bad though at all. It's thinner my Schecter Apocalypse neck so I'm good. It'll be a nice variation among the neck profiles/thicknesses I have already.

Came packaged well too. The case is actually really really nice. The sucker nearly arrived in tune as well. The G string and top 3 (thickest) strings need a very very minuscule adjustment.

No finish or fretwork issues. Maybe the slightest bit of of fret sprout starting but that may go away in a few days. I swear I feel it less than when I did first out of the box even.

I wish their jacks were recessed.

The heel is surprisingly unobtrusive. I'm glad I went with bolt-on. The instrument feels great to play so far. Nice to have something different than my usual set-neck or neck-through configuration.

Overall, I wouldn't say the quality is insane or anything. It's good but it's honestly just like getting a good specimen of a production guitar and it being customized. I wouldn't be happy buying a Kiesel and it having any issues. It would instantly make it not worth it to me.

I'll post pics and more review-ness after I've had it for a while and once I've had time to properly photograph it.