The Carvin / Kiesel thread

[soliloquy]

Hey if you're sold on Carvin...by all means. But their absolute rock bottom cheapest guitar STARTS at $700 (and the guitars aren't hand made!). Their made by machines (just like overseas). I can buy two Ibanez RGs for the same price and shred just as hard, get great tones (as so many have before), and save money.

I'm not knocking their tones, or the quality perse. But I'm not into paying more for the same stuff, and I'm not really into the look of their guitars. If you like them...cool. I've heard some great recordings from Carvins but I've heard great recordings from other guitars that cost 1/2 the price or less.

p.s. - I do however think they are getting better. The 8 strings have nicer looking head-stocks. My buddy Flock (at Carvin) was responsible for putting those 8 strings together (getting them going). Who knows? I might own a Carvin one day.

i'm still not convinced that this guy is trolling...perhaps confused

tell you what, try finding a guitar that will do the following:

let you pick your fret size and material and radius
let you pick the neck wood between maple, flamed maple, birds eye maple, koa, walnut, mahogany, alder
let you pick the fret board between flamed maple, maple, birds eye, ebony, rosewood
let you pick your body wood between mahogany, alder, swamp ash, maple/flamed maple, koa, walnut
let you pick your top wood between mahogany, alder, swamp ash, flamed/quilted/spalted maple, koa, walnut
let you pick your number of frets
let you pick your pickups
let you pick your bridges between fixed, string through, floyd rose, wilki
let you pick your color (s)
let you pick your finish between gloss, matte, tung oil


and let you pick a whole lot of other stuff

all under a grand?

agile is the only other company and even they dont offer half the stuff that carvin offers.


and i know i got docked on this in the PRS thread, but i'm bringing PRS here. i dont like PRS, however, i respect them for their QC and their built quality and consistency. if carvin wasn't around (or even if they were), i'd say that some of their guitars that are priced below the 2000 dollar mark are totally worth it as you wont find that kind of work elsewhere.

yes, i admit that the indonesian ibanez are fast approaching the US/Japanese (and in many cases beating them) but what ibanez is offering has very little in common with what any other company is offering. even take schecter/ltd and ibanez. shcecter and ltd dont offer necks as thin as ibanez. nor do they offer wooden edge binding like ibanez either. nor the bridge. nor the fret access. etc....


at that case, you aren't comparing apples to apples. nor oranges. you're comparing apples to water melons. completely different ball games...

just saying...

 

[median]

For the price, you believe we're paying for looks? Surely you cannot be serious. Carvin's quality control and customer service goes beyond what other guitar companies dream of being able to offer. And the quality of the guitars (the woods, stainless steel frets, tops, paint jobs, etc.) surpasses guitars at lower price points. To say you buy a carvin just for looks is silly. How a guitar plays is purely subjective and based on your own preferences as a player. So, you're right in that sense... it is your opinion and right to believe and share that opinion. However, you are in the minority. Most people that have ever played, own, or owned a carvin would most likely say that the playability and overall quality of Carvin guitars surpasses that of lower price-point guitars.

There's nothing wrong with Ibanez, Schecter, LTD, etc.... I've owned many of their guitars throughout the years. But the quality and playability is subpar compared to my carvins. Then again, that's just my opinion.

There is room for all opinions - especially when it comes to gear (and that doesn't make anyone a "troll", or whatever). I have never had a bad experience with my Ibanez guitars and none of them have fret problems (or any problems for that matter). All of them play amazing and sound amazing. This is, I believe, why so many pros play them. I have an RGFX that I bought for $150. The thing plays and sounds like a dream.

Last, I go to NAMM every year and I do not hear any top pros (or even up and coming guys) talking about Carvin. It just doesn't happen. They are hanging out at other booths talking about those companies products. I suppose someone could accuse them of being "money" hungry - but to accuse ALL of them of this is somewhat shortsighted. The pros I've spoken with have chosen their guitars because they love how they play.

But hey, I'm not knocking Carvin. I DO like some of their stuff. But for the money (and the look) it's not my first choice.

 

[Swyse]

I wasn't calling you a troll, my point was that you came to the carvin thread, which consists of carvin enthusiats, to say that you didn't like carvin's guitars. I at this very point in time do not own a carvin, I actually own 5 Ibanez guitars. A troll is someone who disagrees or argues a point to purposely make someone mad.

I don't have a horse in the race so to speak, but I know from the carvins that I've played that the QC is great. I understand not liking their shapes, especially their headstocks. One area where I will disagree about the guitars being knock offs of other brands. Unless you're a total fender or gibson fan, isn't it the pot calling the kettle black? Ibanez's RG is a just pointy stratocaster. Also, if you order an Ibanez and its mucked up or comes with hardware where the finish wears off in a matter of days and rusts, its a sad tale. With carvin their return/rebuild policy is very generous I think. I feel with all the options you get, with great QC and customer service you get a very good product for a very good price.

 

[LetsMosey]

There is room for all opinions - especially when it comes to gear (and that doesn't make anyone a "troll", or whatever). I have never had a bad experience with my Ibanez guitars and none of them have fret problems (or any problems for that matter). All of them play amazing and sound amazing. This is, I believe, why so many pros play them. I have an RGFX that I bought for $150. The thing plays and sounds like a dream.

Last, I go to NAMM every year and I do not hear any top pros (or even up and coming guys) talking about Carvin. It just doesn't happen. They are hanging out at other booths talking about those companies products. I suppose someone could accuse them of being "money" hungry - but to accuse ALL of them of this is somewhat shortsighted. The pros I've spoken with have chosen their guitars because they love how they play.

But hey, I'm not knocking Carvin. I DO like some of their stuff. But for the money (and the look) it's not my first choice.

But money IS the reason you never hear any top pros talking about Carvin. That's how they make a living--endorsements. I've had this conversation with quite a few top players, and all of them would agree Carvin guitars are amazing. But they are a small family-owned company and can't afford to pay huge dividends to endorsees for playing their gear. They don't pay Vai a ton of money to tote their amps, because Vai makes a shit ton of money via Ibanez, Ernie Ball, Morley, etc. I don't think it makes them greedy, it makes them logical going where the money is so that they can keep being a professional musician and making a living off of it. Ibanez has MILLIONS of advertising dollars to spend, Carvin does not.

 

[median]

I wasn't calling you a troll, my point was that you came to the carvin thread, which consists of carvin enthusiats, to say that you didn't like carvin's guitars. I at this very point in time do not own a carvin, I actually own 5 Ibanez guitars. A troll is someone who disagrees or argues a point to purposely make someone mad.

I don't have a horse in the race so to speak, but I know from the carvins that I've played that the QC is great. I understand not liking their shapes, especially their headstocks. One area where I will disagree about the guitars being knock offs of other brands. Unless you're a total fender or gibson fan, isn't it the pot calling the kettle black? Ibanez's RG is a just pointy stratocaster. Also, if you order an Ibanez and its mucked up or comes with hardware where the finish wears off in a matter of days and rusts, its a sad tale. With carvin their return/rebuild policy is very generous I think. I feel with all the options you get, with great QC and customer service you get a very good product for a very good price.

When I saw "The Carvin thread" I didn't read into it thinking, "Oh, this must be a bunch of guys who all LOVE Carvin". Rather, it looked to be a general Carvin forum (for opinions on Carvin). So here we are. I really didn't think one opinion on Carvin would make the bee hive so furious. LOL.


Second, I suppose this depends on what one values. If all someone cares about is ordering a custom guitar and getting a thousand choices (paying $1500 - $2500) by all means go for it. But I don't value that (and I do think the guitars are knock-offs). Heck, a few of the guys at Carvin have even admitted this in conversation. Again, if you like them...cool. But expressing an opinion on a board doesn't mean I am trying to upset anyone. After all, it is an open forum and it didn't say "Carvin Enthusiasts Thread".

 

[median]

But money IS the reason you never hear any top pros talking about Carvin. That's how they make a living--endorsements. I've had this conversation with quite a few top players, and all of them would agree Carvin guitars are amazing. But they are a small family-owned company and can't afford to pay huge dividends to endorsees for playing their gear. They don't pay Vai a ton of money to tote their amps, because Vai makes a shit ton of money via Ibanez, Ernie Ball, Morley, etc. I don't think it makes them greedy, it makes them logical going where the money is so that they can keep being a professional musician and making a living off of it. Ibanez has MILLIONS of advertising dollars to spend, Carvin does not.

For me, this would make sense if Carvin had completely original looking guitars. But from my experience (seeing/playing them and in talking with many Carvin owners here in SD, and Carvin staff) their guitars are (by and large) knock-offs of other makers designs (minus the headstock of course). That is not something I value as an artist. Again, if someone else is, cool. But shunning ANY opinion to the contrary seems dogmatic.

Personally, I think they should do their own original designs more and move toward different head-stocks. If they did that I would walk in and buy one.

 

[soliloquy]

actually i kind of agree with Median on the point that just coz it says 'carvin thread' as the title, only positive carvin reviews will be posted here. thats the thing i HATE about the prs thread. you mention anything about any negative aspect of PRS and people shun you saying 'this is PRS, keep it that way' or in other terms meaning that only positive stuff shall be here. and if you want to express your negative opinion, all you are entitled to is saying is 'i dont like em' and thats it...not really fair.

also, in terms of knock offs...ibanez rg is a knock off to jackson soloist, which is a knock off to fender. prs is a knock off of gibson and fender put together...

aside from fender and gibson, i think only the BC RICH and rickenbaker guitars are original in the sense that no similar bodies exist out there.

so with that said, you are enjoying a knock off guitar with an ibanez on the headstock..

 

[zilla]

By that logic, then every single car in production has been a knock off of the original model T

 

[soliloquy]

By that logic, then every single car in production has been a knock off of the original model T

my point exactly.

or even before that, all cars are a copy of trains, which are a copy of horse carriages. etc...

 

[zilla]

im sorry, but you can't call something a knock off just because there is some similarity in the history.

You can't say that a mercedes is a knock off of a model T, just like you can't say that ibanez is a knock off of jackson or prs is a knock off of gibson and fender.

they're all evolutions in design. Some are major evolutions, others not so much.

 

[median]

By that logic, then every single car in production has been a knock off of the original model T

I don't know about you, but I don't buy a car to use as my art. So the comparison is not really a fair one.

In regards to the Jackson comment (etc), I don't really see a comparison. And I suppose at this point we are getting into a pointless match over aesthetics. I don't like the head-stocks on either the Jacksons or the Carvins. As far as Ibanez being a copy of a Fender, I really don't see it. They are quite different in shape. So maybe, for me personally, the head-stock happens to be a big deal. Again, if Carvin changed their head-stocks and changed the shapes a little I would be into it.

For example, I think this is a beautiful guitar. Change the head-stock up a bit and I might be into it...

 

[soliloquy]

im sorry, but you can't call something a knock off just because there is some similarity in the history.

You can't say that a mercedes is a knock off of a model T, just like you can't say that ibanez is a knock off of jackson or prs is a knock off of gibson and fender.

they're all evolutions in design. Some are major evolutions, others not so much.

oh i'm not disagreeing. i'm just pointing out how silly it is to think so. thats what median is suggesting, that the carvin guitars are a knock off of prs or others.

with that said, the carvin takes the idea of prs and merges with something else. the prs was inspired between the fender and gibson guitars. and then carvin brought out the CT line which is also similar to the prs guitars, however, it also incorporates a bit of schecters square edge bodies. its neck joint is closer to the gibson double cut than it is with prs

like so:

 

[median]

Is there ever a "knock off" of anything then? Is there a way to differentiate a knock off from something we could call original? Perhaps this comes downs to degrees of similarity which one is willing to tolerate.

 

[zilla]

a knock off is when you have a company that blatantly tries to copy a more well known (and usually more expensive) item and tries to pass it off as the original.

 

[soliloquy]

I don't know about you, but I don't buy a car to use as my art. So the comparison is not really a fair one.

In regards to the Jackson comment (etc), I don't really see a comparison. And I suppose at this point we are getting into a pointless match over aesthetics. I don't like the head-stocks on either the Jacksons or the Carvins. As far as Ibanez being a copy of a Fender, I really don't see it. They are quite different in shape. So maybe, for me personally, the head-stock happens to be a big deal. Again, if Carvin changed their head-stocks and changed the shapes a little I would be into it.

For example, I think this is a beautiful guitar. Change the head-stock up a bit and I might be into it...

carvin offers several different headstocks

and all or most of them can be reversed as well.

 

[soliloquy]

Is there ever a "knock off" of anything then? Is there a way to differentiate a knock off from something we could call original? Perhaps this comes downs to degrees of similarity which one is willing to tolerate.

a knock off would be like this:
original: gibson les paul
knock off: burney/greco/tokai/navigator/edwards version of 'love rock' or other les paul guitars that are virtually identical safe for the name on the headstock.

 

[soliloquy]

new guitar for neil zaza. heres what he wrote about it:"

zaza just got a second one:

 

[Edika]

Can somebody from the US tell me the price of this one?

Here's the link:
CarvinWorld.com International :

I send an inquiry to a dealer here and I want to see the difference in price. Thanks.

I had a conversation through emails with a dealer here about this guitar. Well he is listed as a dealer but maybe he is not because of the following. First of all he told me that he CAN'T give me a price for that particular guitar and that I should just copy paste the specs so they can inquire the price as a new build. I asked him why since that particular guitar is available in the in stock inventory. He insisted that it's not possible. Second he said that he is going the spec sheet to the dealer (so he is not the dealer?) and get a price quote.
I send them the spec sheet with just two changes, a reverse headstock and a tung oil neck. Nothing too different or extravagant. Swyse said the price tag for that model in the Carvin site was $1,459.00 marked down to $1,259.00 and the "dealer" replied 2550 EUROS.

So I'm either buying a Carvin if I come to the US or used from the US.

 

[cajunboy2k]

I had a conversation through emails with a dealer here about this guitar. Well he is listed as a dealer but maybe he is not because of the following. First of all he told me that he CAN'T give me a price for that particular guitar and that I should just copy paste the specs so they can inquire the price as a new build. I asked him why since that particular guitar is available in the in stock inventory. He insisted that it's not possible. Second he said that he is going the spec sheet to the dealer (so he is not the dealer?) and get a price quote.
I send them the spec sheet with just two changes, a reverse headstock and a tung oil neck. Nothing too different or extravagant. Swyse said the price tag for that model in the Carvin site was $1,459.00 marked down to $1,259.00 and the "dealer" replied 2550 EUROS.

So I'm either buying a Carvin if I come to the US or used from the US.

The whole "shipping overseas," thing really sucks. It jacks up prices for our friends across the pond. Plus, adding customs/duty really increases the price. I wonder if the overseas instrument market is large enough for someone in the U.S. to start a shipping company that specializes in shipping instruments at more reasonable rates? But this may undercut European dealers. Oh well, just thinking out loud.

 

[FACTORY]

these DC600's are sexy

That's not mine I just found it looked great with that tung oiled flame top.

If I get one built (soon), it will be all mahogany minus two maple stripes on the 5 piece neck (with maple top on body and head stock) all Tung oil.

No inlays & regular reverse DC 6-inline head stock are a must!

You can pay an extra $25 to get the "non-striped all black ebony option" by the way.