The Carvin / Kiesel thread

[somethingsomething]

THAT IS A GOOD GUITAR.

 

[Hollowway]

This looks like so much damn fun. They made up a couple, and available by calling in (they won't be going up on line) for $2199.

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yeah, unfortunately those sold out FAST. I didn’t see the post on FB until last night, but they were gone today. I would love one of those!

 

[groverj3]

Perhaps this is well known by the Carvin/Kiesel faithful, why don't they let you have a Floyd on a 7 string?

 

[SalsaWood]

Perhaps this is well known by the Carvin/Kiesel faithful, why don't they let you have a Floyd on a 7 string?

The Becker guitars have Floyds IIRC, or at least I know they used to. I don't know the answer to your question, though.

 

[groverj3]

The Becker guitars have Floyds IIRC, or at least I know they used to. I don't know the answer to your question, though.

I haven't played with the builder in quite a while, but I recall being able to put a Floyd on any 6 string I've built in it, but they only offer the Hipshot non-locking trem on 7s.

 

[spudmunkey]

Perhaps this is well known by the Carvin/Kiesel faithful, why don't they let you have a Floyd on a 7 string?

They've given a number of reasons that all combine into the big picture reason. I can't say which was the straw that broke the camels back, though.

After they released the Hipshot trem, most of their artists switched over to the Hipshot, and overall demand for the 7-string Floyd dropped.

One thing interesting about the Floyd they DID offer, was that while they used the geran-made OFR for the 6-string, they used the korean-made Original 1000 for the 7s, because they needed it for the narrower string spacing. If they were to go with the 7-string OFR at the time, they would have needed to generate all-new CNC programs to accommodate the wider string spacing just to accommodate that one bridge.

This all came around at a point where Kiesel was looking to streamline their CNC programs. Let's say a guitar with a specific set of specs is one program. Change from HH to HSS pickups, and that double the programs. Right and left handed doubles it again. 25.5" and 27" scale options double it again, etc etc. They saw that eliminating the slow-selling bridge could streamline their programs.

Additionally, Kiesel's mentioned that they had a few batches of the Original 1000 bridges that had some QC issues. They have also said they liked to avoid importing major components from asia when they can help it (though they have made some obvious exceptions like their tuners)

So putting all of that together, in 2018, they just decided they were "done". So it's been about 6 years since they offered 7-string Floyds.

It's not like they are against Floyds all together. While they did remove it as an option from some of their more "classic" models like the CS6 and CT6 (where they were probably really slow-selling options anyway), but they've also released many models since, including some of the most recent, with 6-string Floyd Rose bridges.

 

[groverj3]

They've given a number of reasons that all combine into the big picture reason. I can't say which was the straw that broke the camels back, though.

After they released the Hipshot trem, most of their artists switched over to the Hipshot, and overall demand for the 7-string Floyd dropped.

One thing interesting about the Floyd they DID offer, was that while they used the geran-made OFR for the 6-string, they used the korean-made Original 1000 for the 7s, because they needed it for the narrower string spacing. If they were to go with the 7-string OFR at the time, they would have needed to generate all-new CNC programs to accommodate the wider string spacing just to accommodate that one bridge.

This all came around at a point where Kiesel was looking to streamline their CNC programs. Let's say a guitar with a specific set of specs is one program. Change from HH to HSS pickups, and that double the programs. Right and left handed doubles it again. 25.5" and 27" scale options double it again, etc etc. They saw that eliminating the slow-selling bridge could streamline their programs.

Additionally, Kiesel's mentioned that they had a few batches of the Original 1000 bridges that had some QC issues. They have also said they liked to avoid importing major components from asia when they can help it (though they have made some obvious exceptions like their tuners)

So putting all of that together, in 2018, they just decided they were "done". So it's been about 6 years since they offered 7-string Floyds.

It's not like they are against Floyds all together. While they did remove it as an option from some of their more "classic" models like the CS6 and CT6 (where they were probably really slow-selling options anyway), but they've also released many models since, including some of the most recent, with 6-string Floyd Rose bridges.

Interesting.

I'm sure they have their reasons, but I don't believe that's true about the 1000 series 7s having narrower spacing. All the dimensions are the same as the German-made one. I literally have mixed saddles and base plates from one with the other, only the blocks don't fit the German vs Korean bridges. Spotty QC I could see though. Yeah, I was just playing around with the builder and you can indeed put Floyds on most 6 stringers. I just thought it was weirdly arbitrary not to offer them for 7s. I recalled that back in the Carvin days they only had licensed 7 string Floyds and not originals, too.

 

[spudmunkey]

Interesting.

I'm sure they have their reasons, but I don't believe that's true about the 1000 series 7s having narrower spacing. All the dimensions are the same as the German-made one. I literally have mixed saddles and base plates from one with the other, only the blocks don't fit the German vs Korean bridges. Spotty QC I could see though. Yeah, I was just playing around with the builder and you can indeed put Floyds on most 6 stringers. I just thought it was weirdly arbitrary not to offer them for 7s. I recalled that back in the Carvin days they only had licensed 7 string Floyds and not originals, too.

OFR 7 string spacing is 10.75. Original 1000 (non-pro) 7 is 10.5.

The Original 1000 Pro is in between but closer to the OFR.

 

[groverj3]

OFR 7 string spacing is 10.75. Original 1000 (non-pro) 7 is 10.5.

The Original 1000 Pro is in between but closer to the OFR.

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Well, I stand corrected. I can't really argue with a schematic, haha.

Though, I don't understand how that's a reason to not offer them when, as I said, they're close enough that I have 1000 series saddles on the base plate of the German 7 and it is completely fine with no gaps anywhere. In a guitar that came routed for a 1000 series.

 

[JimF]

I wonder what tolerances they're produced to... I bet there's some overlap in specs when tolerances are taken into account, especially after finishing.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I wonder what tolerances they're produced to... I bet there's some overlap in specs when tolerances are taken into account, especially after finishing.

It doesn't sound like much, but in this sort of manufacturing 1/4 of a millimeter is like a mile to be off by. I've never handled a Floyd that was far enough off to be closer to one of the other bridge specs.

That said, having done a good amount of swaps, depending on what you're willing to live with, it's not impossible to sub one for another depending on the build.

 

[groverj3]

I guess I'm also confused why they "needed it for the narrower string spacing" when they literally make the guitars and can build them to whatever dimensions they want. Unless that small difference in spacing put strings too close to the edge of the fretboard with a German OFR7 and they didn't want to make their necks wider. In that case, yeah, just use the 1000 series.

Regardless, they were putting 1000 series 7s them on 6 years ago without issue. It seems arbitrary to me.

Anyway, Kiesel fans don't seem to care much so I guess it's all good. I'm just curious by nature.