The case against earplugs
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m3l-mrq3z
Banned
Excellent thread, guys. Apparently, a few of you have tinnitus. So do I. According to the last doctor I saw, I have no hearing loss and can listen to frequencies between 22-19 kHz. That said, I do find it hard to live with tinnitus and don't wish this upon any musician, as it can make things difficult. I avoid loud places and loud noises out of fear it could worsen up my condition. I too read about that Belgian metalhead that killed himself because of not being able to live with his tinnitus.
According to the doctor I last saw, accupunture can reduce the ringing, if not completely heal it. This might hold true for those among you whose tinnitus isn't the result of ear damage. Other things are held resposanbile for causing tinnitus, such as infections, stress and muscular tension. Bad eating habits (too much spice and stuff that irritates the intestines) can also cause/make tinnitus worse.
I don't understand why some of you practice at loud levels. I remember talking with a drummer I know about methods to decrease volume and increase sound quality at a rehearsal space. We all know about isolation methods, why not use them? I don't understand why bands feel like playing at high volume, considering its effect upon dynamics and overall clarity.
According to the doctor I last saw, accupunture can reduce the ringing, if not completely heal it. This might hold true for those among you whose tinnitus isn't the result of ear damage. Other things are held resposanbile for causing tinnitus, such as infections, stress and muscular tension. Bad eating habits (too much spice and stuff that irritates the intestines) can also cause/make tinnitus worse.
I don't understand why some of you practice at loud levels. I remember talking with a drummer I know about methods to decrease volume and increase sound quality at a rehearsal space. We all know about isolation methods, why not use them? I don't understand why bands feel like playing at high volume, considering its effect upon dynamics and overall clarity.
Thep
Blast & Sweep
Summer Slaughter 2009 (no protection) followed by an afternoon at the shooting range the next day. My earbuds fell out 3/4 way through the shooting and I didnt feel like putting the dirty bud back in my ear.
The next two days, I had a vicious ringing in my ear that wasn't subsiding. It was honestly the scariest moment of my life, thinking I would have to live with this for the rest of my life.
Luckily, I went to an ENT clinic on day 3 and was prescribed a steroid regime that completed erased the tinitus after a few weeks. I realize I'm EXTREMELY lucky that I this worked, as I was told there was a large chance it wouldn't to the degree it did.
If I had waited any longer, or if I took a few more shots at the range, the damage could have been permanent. I was also short $800 out of pocket, but it was best worst $800 I could have spent.
The next two days, I had a vicious ringing in my ear that wasn't subsiding. It was honestly the scariest moment of my life, thinking I would have to live with this for the rest of my life.
Luckily, I went to an ENT clinic on day 3 and was prescribed a steroid regime that completed erased the tinitus after a few weeks. I realize I'm EXTREMELY lucky that I this worked, as I was told there was a large chance it wouldn't to the degree it did.
If I had waited any longer, or if I took a few more shots at the range, the damage could have been permanent. I was also short $800 out of pocket, but it was best worst $800 I could have spent.
SenorDingDong
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It's okay--when they're deaf and can longer listen to music, you'll still be enjoying what you love.
asher
So Did We
I've never heard that almost any of those can be related. Do you have any links or anything? I'm not trying to call B.S., I'm genuinely curious.
ArrowHead
Well-Known Member
How does that work? Did you just make an appointment with a hearing specialist? Or do you buy the plugs, and then bring them to the doctor? I've been looking to have this done for quite a long time.
Matt_D_
Well-Known Member
I've tried to explain to them countless times how important it is to protect your hearing, being in turn answered with "pussy", etc.
Protect your ears, people
when you're 40 and still enjoying music you can happily call them pussies for not being able to deal with tinnitus that could've been easily prevented.
no one calls people wearing sunglasses in summer a "pussy". if you're stupid enough to stare at the sun, you can deal with the consequences.
Matt_D_
Well-Known Member
you make an appointment with an audiologist who takes an impression of your ear canal. (its one of the most amusing and weird things you'll ever do, maybe. they "inject" what is basically playdoh into your ears, its cold, and hilarious, and they ask you not to smile or change the shape of your jaw, which is impossible).
they send the impressions off to somewhere that turns them into the plugs, and drills the appropriate holes for filters/attenuators. they, or your audiologist will install the attenuator. takes a few weeks usually.
Matt_D_
Well-Known Member
my story is that i used to go clubbing a lot, and at one point i had a terrible ear infection and had super bad tinnitus for about 4 days. it was just intolerable, and it was after that that i decided to take better care of my ears and have worn plugs ever since. (and i was clubbing a *lot* back in the late 90's early 2000's). I think i did 1 year without, and 7 years with plugs.
I found that my sensitivity to sound came back too. it was like my brain re-adjusted the level at which i heard back to something reasonable after switching to plugs.
Im pretty lucky for a few reasons, back when i was out and about, sound systems were nowhere near as efficient/loud a they are today, and dance music isnt quite as focused in the human vocal range as metal/rock. I do have some very very very slight tinnitus that's only audible in complete silence, so I got *very* lucky.
my brother though, struggles a lot. his is partly muscular, and partly damage (damn you mars volta!, i did tell him to wear plugs to that gig). poor guy has it pretty bad. and it frustrates the hell out of him as he's more of a musician than I am. there's no cure. only ways to mitigate the damage.
drummers still scare me though. i dont like to be around acoustic kits at close proximity even with earplugs in. i seriously suggest investing in a midi kit for rehearsal if possible..
I found that my sensitivity to sound came back too. it was like my brain re-adjusted the level at which i heard back to something reasonable after switching to plugs.
Im pretty lucky for a few reasons, back when i was out and about, sound systems were nowhere near as efficient/loud a they are today, and dance music isnt quite as focused in the human vocal range as metal/rock. I do have some very very very slight tinnitus that's only audible in complete silence, so I got *very* lucky.
my brother though, struggles a lot. his is partly muscular, and partly damage (damn you mars volta!, i did tell him to wear plugs to that gig). poor guy has it pretty bad. and it frustrates the hell out of him as he's more of a musician than I am. there's no cure. only ways to mitigate the damage.
drummers still scare me though. i dont like to be around acoustic kits at close proximity even with earplugs in. i seriously suggest investing in a midi kit for rehearsal if possible..
Acupuncture is pseudoscience and has no basis in fact.
A randomized trial comparing acupuncture, si... [Arch Intern Med. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI
My ears pop, and crackle, triggered by impact noises INCLUDING keyboards, in which case I need music / a background to relieve this annoyance. This is from only FORGETTING earplugs at the occasional small room band practice and concert over the years.... It is an off and on thing but damned annoying.
m3l-mrq3z
Banned
I wish the specialists I asked had talked about concrete studies, but these guys have a different approach to illnesses than most doctors out there.
Take my condition, for example. I don't suffer from hear loss, even though I have had tinnitus ever since I am 14. The cause is most likely not within my hearing system, but somewhere else. I actually know for a fact that some people develop tinnitus because of muscle tension. As soon as the muscle tension is gone, the tinnitus dissapears.
Not meaning to offend you, but that's a very arrogant thing to say ( a very Western one, too). Besides, you cite a single studie to support your statement, which in itself doesn't make sense. Acupunture never claimed to be a science or a scientific method, for that matter.
I don't know if you are a scientist or not, but you should know how pragmatic and chauvinistic science (or scientists) can get to be. I recommend reading J. Bergers "The morning of the magicians" or at least C.Fort's "The book of the damned" to get an overview on how science decides to overlook, deny and even ridicule things it can't explain.
It is (and many studies have proven it), but the placebo effect can do wonders.
In fact, what causes tinnitus is that a prolonged exposition to loudness rewires the brain in a different way. If the "rewiring" becomes permanent (see below), there is not yet a cure to go back to "old wiring". The solution is to help people deal with it "psychologically", the more you focus on that ringing and the more it becomes noticeable. On the other hand, if you can focus on something else, you'll become accustomed to it (like background noise) and won't have to deal with it anymore. The placebo effect (such as the one implied by acupuncture) can make wonders in that regard : as in many medical conditions, the belief that you will heal is essential to the healing process itself.
Yep, steroids are the standard treatment for this. But you have to be treated right away, if you want more than 72 hours, chances are that any tinnitus will be permanent.
tacotiklah
I am Denko (´･ω･`)
Yeah your friends are gonna learn the hard way just like I did. I now have 45% hearing loss due to permanent damage to both my auditory nerves. It was caused by loud noise as well as repeated blows to the head. (thanks dad)
Conversation with me in person is like a constant game of Mad Libs from hell. I can only make out about half of what anybody says and the rest sounds like you're mumbling. So my brain has to basically "fill in the blanks" and I have to constantly guess at what it is that people are saying. Just last night I ended up in an argument with my cousin over what I thought she'd said and was actually said. I was in the middle of watching a movie with her and she wanted me to kill the lights since she was getting sleepy. Despite having my own room, I tend to crash on the couch in her room (she has a huge room like that) while we both watch tv.
The next sentence that came out is the one of contention:
I thought she had said "Hurry up and turn out the lights, my eyes are hurting." In other words, I thought she was rushing me. Got a bit upset by that.
What she had actually said was "God, I miss my Andrew." (a guy she has fallen for and is a friend of mine)
Long story short, not being able to hear will make you a shittier musician and you'll end up living life like I do on a daily basis. I can't count the number of times (often in a row) that I've had to ask people to repeat themselves because everything they say sounds like a garbled mess. All because I had to be Betty Badass and be too metal for earplugs. Don't do that to yourselves please.
Conversation with me in person is like a constant game of Mad Libs from hell. I can only make out about half of what anybody says and the rest sounds like you're mumbling. So my brain has to basically "fill in the blanks" and I have to constantly guess at what it is that people are saying. Just last night I ended up in an argument with my cousin over what I thought she'd said and was actually said. I was in the middle of watching a movie with her and she wanted me to kill the lights since she was getting sleepy. Despite having my own room, I tend to crash on the couch in her room (she has a huge room like that) while we both watch tv.
The next sentence that came out is the one of contention:
I thought she had said "Hurry up and turn out the lights, my eyes are hurting." In other words, I thought she was rushing me. Got a bit upset by that.
What she had actually said was "God, I miss my Andrew." (a guy she has fallen for and is a friend of mine)
Long story short, not being able to hear will make you a shittier musician and you'll end up living life like I do on a daily basis. I can't count the number of times (often in a row) that I've had to ask people to repeat themselves because everything they say sounds like a garbled mess. All because I had to be Betty Badass and be too metal for earplugs. Don't do that to yourselves please.
cataclysm_child
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I bought a molded set when I was 14. They were pretty damn expensive, but one of the best investments I've done.
Still wear them to this day, 12 years later.
I recommend everyone to buy some molded ones!
Still wear them to this day, 12 years later.
I recommend everyone to buy some molded ones!
Repner
Well-Known Member
This reminds me of a few years ago, when I was at Hammerfest in Wales.
My friend cam up to me and asked "What the hell are you doing wearing earplugs?"
"Oh these? I use them for conversations like the one we're having right now."
It amused him enough to stop asking.
My friend cam up to me and asked "What the hell are you doing wearing earplugs?"
"Oh these? I use them for conversations like the one we're having right now."
It amused him enough to stop asking.
How is it arrogant and western to say that it has no basis in fact? Please do cite me some resources showing it has basis in fact, other than a placebo effect. I cited one study because that was the one I found easiest to understand, here are some others:
A review of the evidence for the effectiveness, safety, and cost of acupuncture, massage... - Abstract - Europe PubMed Central
Acupuncture treatment of chronic low-back pain -- a randomized, blinded, placebo-controlled... - Abstract - Europe PubMed Central
Acupuncture: theory, efficacy, and practice. - Abstract - Europe PubMed Central
All of those studies (and several others) state that it has no observable effect other than the placebo effect.
As for your casual dismissal of science; yes, science has been wrong before and yes, there are bad scientists; but that does not mean every single study is wrong. Science is concerned with coming up with models for how stuff work, and yes, sometimes when the data can't be explained by the model, it is scrapped. If there is too much data the model can't explain, then the model is scrapped. Yes, this process isn't perfect, but citing a book does not "debunk" several double blind trials on the same subject that reach the same conclusion: That acupuncture was not observed to have any effect other than a placebo effect. So, going back to my original statement, it does not have basis in fact, since it claims to "correct imbalances in the flow of qi through channels known as meridians" (there is no evidence to support this) and it is indeed pseudoscience.
Just got a pack of those Etymotic ER-20s and I'm using them at work right now. They work great so far, can't wait to try them out at a concert.
Kiwimetal101
'Tread Lightly'
Im going to a gig on monday (BTBAM and AAL 
).. Only a 800ish people max venue..
But after reading this thread and how you guys are having troubles, Im heading out to buy some earplugs tomorrow
Thanks for convincing me guys!!
).. Only a 800ish people max venue.. But after reading this thread and how you guys are having troubles, Im heading out to buy some earplugs tomorrow
Thanks for convincing me guys!!
I have heard it correlated to posture from time to time, and have noticed myself when I am doing more good posture promoted exercises, I am generally having less hearing related issues (slight ringing, or the popping and crackling I mentioned). Naturally, these symptoms are worse at work, when I can't generally set aside the time to do said exercises.
