The difference Mastering makes (Nevermore/Ozone content)

[Metalhead77479]

Hey guys, so yesterday I stumbled on some DI tracks of Narcosynthesis made by Jaymz from the Andy Sneap Forums and thought it would be cool to test out Ozone 5 and see how it really works. HOLY MAGIC 8 BALLS IS THERE A DIFFERENCE!!!

Here's a before and after of the same mix:

Before: Ozone Mixtest (Before) by Tim Walker on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

After: Ozone Mixtest (After) by Tim Walker on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Let me know what you guys think. And lets also discuss other mastering plug-ins and techniques so that way we can all get a little insight as to how to make our own masters better

EDIT: Here's a revised mix after trying out a different approach after reading everyones suggestions. Thanks guys!

http://soundcloud.com/tim-walker/ozone-mixtest-after-take-ii

 

[KingAenarion]

Yea man no offense, but I think your Pre-master actually sounds better.


Mastering is an art more than a skill. It sounds like you've just whacked a preset on there...

 

[Metalhead77479]

Im still working with it, but I like the post Ozone mix just because to my ear it sounds a little more balanced and full. But by no means is this a "perfect" master but it's a start

Any suggestions to make it better?

 

[GATA4]

Guitars are absolutely freaking brutal....love the tone.

I would have to agree with KingAenarion--the "before" mix has much more breathing room. The compression/dynamics on the "after" mix seem to be a little off, like during the verse when the guitars stop chugging and the hi-hat suddenly bursts in volume. The one thing I like about the "after" mix, however, is that the guitars are a little more present.

Did you use one of the presets in Ozone?

 

[Metalhead77479]

I started with a preset (forgot which one) but then I completely changed it to where it is now. I REALLY like how present the guitar/bass is in the mix and how they gel together before and after Ozone, but I agree on the hi hat. There's no processing on the hat track itself and it's already pretty low in the mix but I'll tweak it and see if I can get it to subdue more in the mix

 

[WhiteWalls]

You really need to bring the mastered version down in volume, because it's hard to compare two clips with different volume (even if they were the same identical audio track, the louder one would sound better just because it's louder)

Also I think that mastering is pretty pointless when it is done by the same person who did the mix. It's basically just loudness enhancement in that case, because everything else (eq, compression, etc) could be corrected in the mixing stage anyway.
The whole point of mastering (in my opinion) is to give your mixed product to someone else who is completely impartial, has trained ears and is the final "judge" to fix some small mistakes that you may not have caught.

Anyway don't get me wrong I really appreciate that you took the time to do it, but you should try to master someone else's mix and see what you can get!

 

[Speculum Speculorum]

Having an impartial entity master your mix can be a godsend, but not all of us have the cash to do this. I will be mastering my own mixes, but then again I'm a picky bastard who will take time away from the music and then approach it from a completely different angle a week or two after all the mixing is done. And I'll share the mastered works with a bunch of audio freak friends who will pick my work apart like a good rack of ribs.

Think of presets as a learning tool. They can be good to kind of get a general idea about how different sonic ideals can be reached, but they almost always suck terribly when applied to a unique piece of music. I, personally, will never start from a preset unless I'm familiarizing myself with a program. I own Ozone 4, and I looked through some of the presets, and pretty quickly realized that there is no way I'd ever, EVER use them in a real-world situation... ever.

Putting your work out for public consumption is like being screaming-ass naked, so kudos to you for having the balls to do it. Obviously, you're pretty excited about your end product. So let's have a discussion about what I'm personally hearing in my environment through ADAM-A7 monitors with mild acoustic treatment (bass traps or acoustic curtain for the window coming in the nearer than further future).

Your compression settings might be a bit wacky - really noted in the lows, and noted through the rest of the frequency spectrum. What have you got going on there? Are you using any sideband compression, or are you hitting us with everything straight up the center? Multiband compression can be your best friend or your worst nightmare enemy from Hell. It's a tightrope balancing act, and sometimes you have to ask yourself "Am I just compressing more stuff because I've heard I'm supposed to do that to mastered work?"

Your low-end EQ is a bit too loose in my opinion. As a result of probably a good low boost and over-compression, everything kind of hangs on and muddies up in that region. If you've got a bump going on there, considering tightening the Q of the band, or lowering the overall boost and making up for it with low-end compression. There's nothing magical to it. Just finding that balance.

There are some higher frequencies (hi-hats and cymbals) that keep poking out and fatigue my ear. You have to be particularly sensitive to those because metal is already fatiguing to listen to. Basically, while your guitars are nice and present, the high mids and highs also sound how people describe "loud" - there's a hiss coming off the guitars and cymbals in a couple regions that is rather constant.

Limiting might be a bit extreme. I get the impression the lid is about to come off of the whole thing. The mix was already pretty full to begin with. Basically, I'm wondering if you are using everything in the chain Ozone provides, and I'm asking you how heavily are you using said processes. I don't think your master sounds terrible, by the way. It's just got a few things going on with it that if controlled, would greatly contribute to the overall sound. Also, what are you listening through? What is your environment? How loud are you listening when you mix and master? Etc.

 

[Metalhead77479]

In response to Speculum, I didn't do very heavy compression at all, just barley enough to get the mix to breathe and while mastering I started off listening to where it was almost dead silent, and gradually increased the volume to see how consistent it was across the volume spectrum. I will agree that the higher frequencies do need a little touching up and I'll fix it as soon as I get home. Thanks by the way!
Any other suggestions guys? And don't be afraid to contribute any tips about mastering!

 

[Chris Finster]

The mix to begin with looks to be pegged at -.02
Dosent leave much room for mastering in terms of headroom. Both mixes sound over limited and humped to submission imo. More volume maybe louder but usually sacrifices dynamic content.

 

[Speculum Speculorum]

I didn't mean to insinuate that you were squashing your sound to death, but that it sounds like the attack and release might be altering the sound in a way that is breathing in a strange way. I should have been clearer about that point.

Once again, it's not that there is one thing that is horrifying about your mastering. It's not a terrible job, by any means. But it's all adding up to making the piece sound just off enough to my ears. It's a combination of being a little too liberal with EQ, a slightly unnatural breathing with the compressor in combination with a pretty intense limiting on a piece of music that was probably mixed too hot. Keep at it dude! I would like to hear how it grows.

 

[Metalhead77479]

Thanks man! Im really just trying to work more on getting a more even master so you suggestions were helpful.

 

[DrewsifStalin]

dude turn the limiter/loudness maximizer threshold way down

 

[brootalboo]

Dude honestly to my virgin ears that aren't laden by several years of mastering or tracking, the second one sounds light-years better and I think to most other people, it would as well. I think everyone ITT is being nitpicky (of course they would be, it's the recording forum and I think that it's needed) but the short answer I would like to give you is yes, the second one sounds far more brOOtal and complete.

 

[KingAenarion]

Dude honestly to my virgin ears that aren't laden by several years of mastering or tracking, the second one sounds light-years better and I think to most other people, it would as well. I think everyone ITT is being a little nitpicky (of course they would be, it's the recording forum) but the short answer I would like to give you is yes, the second one sounds far more brOOtal and complete.

It might seem to sound better at first because it is louder... but if you're listening on good speakers or headphones you're going to hear an unnatural pumping sound, which is quite unpleasant and can make some people actually feel ill.

Further, it's physically fatiguing to listen to...

 

[Metalhead77479]

Ok here's another stab at it after taking in everyones suggestions/criticism

Ozone Mixtest (After take II) by Tim Walker on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Anything that still needs work?
Thanks again guys

 

[Ratel]

take 2 is definitely better, everything is clearer and balanced.

 

[Davey]

I noticed with the riff at the beginning of the song the mastered version made the pick noise stand out way more which to me made the riff sound worse. It sounds way noisier, kinda like there's some white noise over the top of it. This could be the hissing Speculum Speculorum mentioned.

Oh just seen take two but I still think it's made the riff sound noiser. I don't think it's to do with the volume difference either. That pick noise or whatever it is definately sounds more present. I hope you get what I mean here.

 

[Speculum Speculorum]

There is at least one metallic ring that is much more present every time a palm-mute happens in the guitars. I would go back into the pre-master mix, find the frequency, and eliminate it on all the guitar tracks with a narrow EQ band. That way, when you do some broad-band frequency exciting in Ozone you won't highlight these frequencies. If that isn't an option then we're all just out of luck.

The 2nd one does a better job of taming these things, but they're still there for sure. The pumping is getting a bit better, but as I stated earlier, I'm wondering if there shouldn't be a bit more done at the mix level to get rid of some problem areas. Good job though!

 

[GATA4]

I think the newest version sounds awesome--just turn that little solo down a little.

Also, excellent job on the bass--it's super brutal and compliments the guitars very well.

 

[Metalhead77479]

There is at least one metallic ring that is much more present every time a palm-mute happens in the guitars. I would go back into the pre-master mix, find the frequency, and eliminate it on all the guitar tracks with a narrow EQ band. That way, when you do some broad-band frequency exciting in Ozone you won't highlight these frequencies. If that isn't an option then we're all just out of luck.

Trust me, I tried to tame that as best as I could and that's about as good as that's going to get

I think the newest version sounds awesome--just turn that little solo down a little.

And as soon as I get out of school that's the first thing Im doing. I kinda feel like the low pass should be brought down a touch more to take out a little bit of the shrillness in the leads. Thoughts?