The dont's of live performance

[noodles]

if you have to use someone elses songs to get a reaction from a crowd, it means YOUR material sucks and you have some work to do.

However, if ending your set with a cover that the crowd loves causes a spike in merch sales, then covers suddenly don't seem so stupid.

 

[Edroz]

However, if ending your set with a cover that the crowd loves causes a spike in merch sales, then covers suddenly don't seem so stupid.

you prove my point, you're still relying on someone elses material to get a reaction.

this is just my opinion on the matter. i think it's far more rewarding to get noticed using your OWN material.

if you're just talking about making money, playing original music is the stupidest (is that even a real word ) thing you can do .

eh, using another bands music to sell and promote my own bands music/ merch is really lame IMO. smart in a business sense though.

 

[Ojinomoto]

What do you guys feel on bands doing covers of songs but with their own spin on it?
Bulb did this cover of Corridor of Chameleons (The Mesh Forum Music) and it's a nice twist on the original.
Hell, Mushroomhead did a cover of Prince's "When Doves Cry" and it actually was done pretty good IMO.

Totally random shit like that makes for an interesting show.

 

[Edroz]

if you can cover a song and put your own spin on it and truly make it your own, then yeah, i think that rules... i may be contradicting myself here .

i'm a little biased on the issue, as i've witnessed far too many half assed and poorly executed covers in my time...

 

[Ojinomoto]

i'm a little biased on the issue, as i've witnessed far too many half assed and poorly executed covers in my time...

Unfortunately, I have to agree.
Now that I've think about it, I've never heard a badass cover live that interested me. Then again, I live in a hellhole so...

 

[ibznorange]

my old band did really mixed up covers, and it was great. i'd never being willing to play out a cover unless we really put our own shit in it. Just so you know where we came from, My brother plays like satch and vai solos, and his rythm is like a mix of chevelle and blues traveler. my music always ends up sounding alot like ben harper/jack johnson or tool meets foo fighters, no matter how hard i try. Tommy, the drummer was a pure alice in chains type of grungy music guy, and Moe (guitarist) got legally kicked out of egypt for refusing to quit playing metallica songs live. We played hard rock, alternative shit. nothing too metal, but we occasionally did do the standard + b really heavy songs. So what did we cover? The eagles - those shoes. Pink Floyd - young lust. Fragma - Miracle. thats right. I need a miracle, i need a miracle 80s dance music. And occasionally wed do some face to face song. disconnected i think it was. My brother and i specifically refused (and still do) to cover anything that was too "in our genre", as we didnt want to just cover something. if we were gonna play anything of anyone elses, it was still going to be ours, and BASED on someone elses. Sadly that band never got to gig out other than a few house party jams, but oh well. My brother and i still have all the material we wrote

I think thats a good rule for covers. never cover anything too similar to your own music

 

[eaeolian]

if you can cover a song and put your own spin on it and truly make it your own, then yeah, i think that rules... i may be contradicting myself here .

i'm a little biased on the issue, as i've witnessed far too many half assed and poorly executed covers in my time...

Well, yes, then it will suck - however, odds are the band sucks to begin with in that case.

Division still usually ends our shows opening for nationals with a cover. Why? Two reasons: If you pick well (Pantera or old Metallica, for example), people buy you drinks , and 2.) since we're the last on before the tour 99% of the time, it helps grab the "latecomers" that like to miss locals, and maybe they get there early enough to see you do your own stuff next time. Playing with tours is all about building audience, and it's been pretty successful for us.

Plus, it's fun to see the reactions if you play something people don't expect, like when we were doing "Damage, Inc.", which is not one of the "usual" Metallica covers.

 

[eaeolian]

this is just my opinion on the matter. i think it's far more rewarding to get noticed using your OWN material.

The two are not mutually exclusive. I know what you're saying, though, and in a lot of cases you're correct.

if you're just talking about making money, playing original music is the stupidest (is that even a real word ) thing you can do .

That would by why I'm in a cover band.

eh, using another bands music to sell and promote my own bands music/ merch is really lame IMO. smart in a business sense though.

Depends. If they buy your CD and come out next time and know the words to your songs, haven't you accomplished exactly what you're talking about - getting people into your own stuff?

We could argue this ad infinitum. I've been on both sides of the coin, and it's simply a matter of choosing what's best for the situation. Bands that play two originals and 8 covers, though, have no business opening for national tours, IMO.

 

[Chris]

However, if ending your set with a cover that the crowd loves causes a spike in merch sales, then covers suddenly don't seem so stupid.

Totally agree.

These guys are friends of mine. Their first album was (imo) brilliant, and got next to no recognition. They did a cover of Rebel Yell, and since have toured with Tesla, Geoff Tate, and lately did a ton of dates with Chris Daughtry.

It helped that the cover was fucking awesome, but every time I saw them live that song got a massive crowd reaction and packed their merch booth.

(note that their website is down, so the myspace is kinda hosed. It never crashed when I ran it! )

 

[Edroz]

Totally agree.

These guys are friends of mine. Their first album was (imo) brilliant, and got next to no recognition. They did a cover of Rebel Yell, and since have toured with Tesla, Geoff Tate, and lately did a ton of dates with Chris Daughtry.

It helped that the cover was fucking awesome, but every time I saw them live that song got a massive crowd reaction and packed their merch booth.

(note that their website is down, so the myspace is kinda hosed. It never crashed when I ran it! )

The two are not mutually exclusive. I know what you're saying, though, and in a lot of cases you're correct.



That would by why I'm in a cover band.



Depends. If they buy your CD and come out next time and know the words to your songs, haven't you accomplished exactly what you're talking about - getting people into your own stuff?

We could argue this ad infinitum. I've been on both sides of the coin, and it's simply a matter of choosing what's best for the situation. Bands that play two originals and 8 covers, though, have no business opening for national tours, IMO.

Well, yes, then it will suck - however, odds are the band sucks to begin with in that case.

Division still usually ends our shows opening for nationals with a cover. Why? Two reasons: If you pick well (Pantera or old Metallica, for example), people buy you drinks , and 2.) since we're the last on before the tour 99% of the time, it helps grab the "latecomers" that like to miss locals, and maybe they get there early enough to see you do your own stuff next time. Playing with tours is all about building audience, and it's been pretty successful for us.

Plus, it's fun to see the reactions if you play something people don't expect, like when we were doing "Damage, Inc.", which is not one of the "usual" Metallica covers.

never thought this subject would spark such a debate. you really did put it best, Mike, by saying it's a two sided coin, and i totally agree with every point you make . then it's just a matter of what side of the coin you fall on...

i'm no stranger to playing live, i've done full US and european tours with 3 different original bands (Insatanity, Mortal Decay, Pyrexia) in the last 5 years or so. i just pride myself on the fact that myself and my bandmates relied on no one elses material but our own (i know, i know, yay for me ). believe me, i haven't recieved any substantial money or notoriety from original music. but hey, if that's what i aimed for, i'd be playing in a cover band for sure .

i remember one show in particular with one of my older bands (Body Part Trophy Case), where we opened our set with the first minute or so of "Dr. Feelgood" , purely just for comedic value (mainly for ourselves) since we were a slayer/pantera esque thrash band. it was TOTALLY unexpected and got a few laughs but it was nowhere near the highlight or focal point of our set. covers like this i think can be fun, get a reaction but still not be the only thing people will want to buy your merch for or remember you by.

i'm really not trying to knock any original bands approach to playing covers. it's just something that i feel should be well thought out, and done with some integrity (or just done as a joke ) not something like "hey, let's learn raining blood for tomorrow's show so we can sell an extra shirt and i can score!"

rant over

 

[mindstorm]

However, Pantera is bad.

fixed!

 

[Ojinomoto]

I think thats a good rule for covers. never cover anything too similar to your own music

I never would have thought of that. That's a real good idea.

 

[ibznorange]

oh it works great. It really makes for interesting shit. Look at the deftones Bsides album. Fuck. they cover Sade, Morissey, The Coctou twins, Lyndard Skinnard, The Cure, and Duran Duran and it goes super awesome. The helmet cover? "eh" at best.
Try rocking out shit. Seriously. cheesy 80's dance music is so rythmic. if youre good with chord inversions and have awesome rythm on a guitar, you can floor an entire crowd with a song thats kinda similar to some shit from 20 years ago, with the same lyrics. Covers are fine. just not copies. there is IMO, an important difference

as far as finances, you know what annoys me? tucsons biggest local band, is a poison cover band. fucking poison. they cover poison. what is that

 

[Edroz]

you know what annoys me? tucsons biggest local band, is a poison cover band. fucking poison. they cover poison. what is that

there's a poison tribute band around my ways called Pose'in (yes you read the name right ), they actually used to be in the same rehearsal spot i was in... i think the thing that disturbed me the most was that their singer would even show up to practice ala Brett Michaels circa '87 - '88

 

[ibznorange]

thats terrible! ha, like that band the darkness. ever see them live? Ultra Vneck zebra jumpsuit FTL

 

[John_Strychnine]

Letting your vocalist talk in all the clean sections of your songs. This is a no, even if the crowd start to look a bit uninterested, it's better them doing that then your vocalist talking a lot of shit that the crowd can't hear anyway.

Vocalists talking in general really, unless its something useful like merch, cds etc, tell them to stfu.

Don't talk to band members on stage, you should know you're setlist/what you're doing.

Don't over move. Over moving on stage to your music is just gay.
DEP get away with it as their music is crazy, but just going spazzy if you're music is indie is not cool.

Don't get mashed before you play at all, ive done it once, it was god damn dreadful.

Water on stage is a must, not beer. Beer dehydrates you more and you get more worn out before your set is finished especially if you move alot/head bang alot. beer AND water together is cool though.

Don't turn up to a gig without a fucking guitar strap, we've had loads of people ask us for straps, id rather let them sit down.
Don't turn up to a gig without a fucking speaker lead.
Don't turn up to a gig without a fucking lead.

This shit pisses me off.

 

[Lozek]

Vocalists talking in general really, unless its something useful like merch, cds etc, tell them to stfu.

Depends if the frontman has a personality or not. Vocalists that say nothing because they are too shy, or vocalists that say nothing because they want to appear dark/brooding are both pretty lame.

As is a vocalist who does talk but says stuff that he thinks is 'funny', or who apologises. Or goes through the standard vocalist patter because they 'should' (merch at the stand, www.Myspace.com/blistering_anal_cornucopia.com etc).

In fact, you know what, vocalists who mention the internet at all. If you're good enough, I'll remember your name and google you. It's not hard.

And thus endeth the lesson in how ridiculously hard it is to find a vocalist who can actually 'front' a band. All of this works and none of it works, dependant on who is delivering the message. Hence why most small bands are doomed from the start.

 

[noodles]

These guys are friends of mine.

Those guys are also a rock solid live act, cool guys to hang out with, and drank half my band under the table.

In my previous band, I did a couple of shows at Jaxx with them. They were going to bring us up to New York to do a couple shows with them, but we broke up before it ever happened. Now they're probably a bit to big to be calling in favors.

 

[blues-core]

thats terrible! ha, like that band the darkness. ever see them live? Ultra Vneck zebra jumpsuit FTL

Thats why they kicked him out/he left and the rest of the band went on to form Stone Gods

 

[omentremor]

On covers, i saw a really badass cover of Bulls On Parade (RATM) by 'The Warriors'. It was done as a full on hardcore song with throat tearing screaming. It was really fuckin cool to watch.

I think a definitive no is corpsepaint in a pub gig. Purely hilarious looking.