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Good luck getting money for a trustworthy luthier who knows your CNC. Is good enough to actually the job without being trained?
I think this one destroys every excuse that was given for his way of business. What do you mean he's busy, has kids to feed, whatever? He had time to arrange his tools and post pretty pictures on Facebook. That means he has time to email customers who have paid IN FULL.oh, nice tool wall though, time for pics of that crap.
Getting the guitar might be top priority for you but right now, you don't have a guitar OR your money. Filing with PayPal or your CC company should at least give you some leverage AND you won't be sitting here in 6 months, still no guitar to be seen and no way of getting your money back.
This has happened way too often on this forum for the past few years.
I'm not sure how this is worrying to you. Like you said, he is seemingly working. It's a batch build, and my guess is that the delayed payments of the other production series is holding your guitar/the entire batch back (think of it as a group buy, maybe? lack of commitment of others affects the whole)
He's probably busy as I suggested before, and probably hasn't got round to replying especially when there's no update yet to provide. Though I agree it's worth just replying, no news is better than... no no news.
Threatening charge backs is a bit of an unethical move, especially with an independent luthier, unless you are certain you are not going to receive the goods anytime soon/ever. You're pretty much manipulating the credit card system which is why so many small businesses hate accepting them. Dealing with fraudulent payments is probably going to .... up the entire build process, and is known to put people out of business. Making a business potentially insolvent isn't going to help anybody.
Having read some of the messages on here, I find it really disappointing. Christian is a great guy and sometimes customers are a complete pain in the arse. Having seen so many comments about guitar Luthiers being late or delayed and customers moaning about pretty much every company out there.
Being under the impression is just a load of rubbish. The margins on the Talon and Syren series are very small. They had delays due to christian breaking his jaw and customers agains till moaned about this delay. He had delays from suppliers and sometimes these things should be expected but can't be.
He had problems with his email and Facebook due to his ISP. I talked to him about this a few weeks ago.
I don't think customers realise builders are working on guitars 9 -5, find it difficult to communicate. Many still have children and need to have a life in the evening rather than answering emails 24/7. People have refused to pay for guitars for no reason that they now can't afford them and this has caused issues for many people and caused delays. If only customers weren't expecting the over and above all the time and has some patience. You got your guitar it probably plays very well and you will enjoy it. Stop being sour and enjoy the guitar.
Apart from when your injured and can't possibly do any work? I know others have made other excuses but when you physically can't do something it does actually need to be excused.
This whole thing sure is starting to smell like a junior of some sorts... one that might go by the moniker... Ricooooooo....
Apart from when your injured and can't possibly do any work? I know others have made other excuses but when you physically can't do something it does actually need to be excused.
Do you know how chargebacks work?
It's not an instant "get your money back" button, it opens a case and Sabre will be able to respond.
Dude, what's not worrying about that?
No one is too busy to reply to an email. No one. Ever.
I very much do. In my line of work I deal with them all the time.
In some cases it is a 'get your money back back', or at least a 'put your money in limbo' button. It very much depends on the credit card processor. Some, most notably Paypal, 'forfeit' or debit the money without notice whilst the investigation is pending. Some even apply a hefty chargeback fee on top of the money withdrawn, so they become out of pocket more-so than they were originally.
Banks in the UK even freeze accounts if a bank transfer is questioned, though this is usually in the cases of unauthorized payments and not upheld agreements.
The fact he is working? I was suggesting his priority was actually working, and not digressing by sending emails with the news/update. It's a long turn around time, I expect some customers are on the spot with ETAs, sending emails on the minute requesting information.
It all depends on your line of work. Sure, that doesn't prohibit someone replying to an email ever, and I don't deny he couldn't have found an opportunity to eventually drop a reply email, but he has, I've received replies recently on occasion. Not all the time, but that could explain the email problems (which he has called me asking to send the email/reply again) or he is selectively choosing emails to reply to, possibly ones that have an actual update (instead of repeating the same news over and over).
I don't want to be seen as promoting bad/absent customer service. I do hope to see some improvement in response and/or a transparency of build status. He updated the build list recently with the ETA times. Doing that on the regular with update times would be an improvement in itself, even possibly 'form emails' when progress has occurred on the guitar (if the customer has requested such) with an updated ETA time if necessary.
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I can't stress enough how much you need to get your ducks in a row and prepare for the worst.
The more time that passes the lower your chance of getting anything. If you start the process now and contact the credit cards/banks now you'll be in a better position.
It's worth noting, that if you start the case you don't have to follow through, you can just put in the information and get things ready. So get to it, and start the process in the hopes you won't have to finish it.
Dude, what's not worrying about that?
Sabre is avoiding his customers. Plain and simple. To top it off, a proper batch build is done for the pricing and simplification of specs, the instruments and their payments should be unrelated to each other.
No one is too busy to reply to an email. No one. Ever.
Do you know how chargebacks work?
It's not an instant "get your money back" button, it opens a case and Sabre will be able to respond.
The only folks who don't want to take credit cards are either greedy and don't want to deal with fees, or are shady and don't expect themselves to be able to deliver.
This is the worst post I've ever read on this forum ever. Ever. It's rare to see such skewed thought regarding builders, the blaming the customer argument.
What's your relation to Sabre?
That's not the customers' problem. He needs to let folks know there are issues. Like it or not, it's his responsibility. Being an adult is hard.
I really tried to make an argument against this, but frankly couldn't. I'm going to be watching this very carefully.
I have read a lot worse I can tell you that! I have seen so much bashing of builders and quite a lot of 'info' is false. Sometimes things have to be looked on the other side. The guitar was delivered, the communication wasn't great but it worked out - I know he explained to many about possible delays.
My Relation to Sabre was that I was a customer and got a production series Talon from the first batch, I talk to Christian now and again about 'stuff'! First time I met him was at the guitar show a month or so ago. I have never had an issue with communication with him. Thats when he mentioned to me about delays from a couple of suppliers on the production and custom series.
My production series was late but i was prepared for that and was explained to me. All I am saying is that sometimes other things affect peoples work. I doubt the payment was related to someone else's build, is there really much truth to that?
On the issue of customers did you know about the recent Blackmachine FF8 Doug has built? A customer ordered it and paid for it. However he hadn't provided an address to ship it to. Doug had tried in various ways to get through to him and no answer. Too busy to reply to his emails?
Customers have placed orders with some companies, paid a deposit and then said they can't afford the next payment when they have been give months warning that its coming up. Argued with companies that they can't pay this right now and want deposits back on one of a kind custom made guitar.
Communication is key and checking emails and replying takes time and this is on both sides. I know quite a few companies say they will send a couple of updates and thats it when ordering customs. They have also had issues with customers in the same vain and they ask them every week for an update.
My best days at work are when the internet is down or emails aren't working these are the days I actually get most of my work done!
So everyone's guitar here has shipped?
So he can talk to you, but not other customers? You don't find that a little odd?
You tell me, as only those defending him have said that, and I doubt the guy waiting for his guitar is lying.
You're getting off topic. What one builder does has no bearing on the situation here. Nice try though.
That's the nature of the business. If you can't handle it at this small level that doesn't bode well for the future.
That said, the deposit should cover all costs of the build. That's the whole point. That way there is no loss if the buyer backs out and you can just throw the guitar up as an in-stock.
I'll argue that the time it takes is minuscule and worth it. Once again, customers can be annoying, but that's life. If you're running a business and are customer facing these are the realities.
Complaining about customers is probably the least professional thing a builder can do.
Sounds like you need to work on time management.
I get it, Sabre has done you well and you're grateful and you feel like you have to stick up for your bro, but you're doing much more harm than good at this point. Seeing as he's still talking to you, I implore you to convince him to talk to his customers and be honest. His paying customers have a right to know what's going on. If things are good or bad.
On a more professional note, he needs to get his .... together if he wants to continue using this forum for promotion and advertising.![]()
Thanks for being personal! Nice from a mod.![]()
I have spoken to him a few times yes....via the phone regarding the guitar show. Giving a customer a phone call every time theres an update pretty impossible. I feel bad that i have even spoken to him.... I agree about complaining about customers but actually a couple of well known companies have done that recently and had positive responses. Recent one being on Facebook regarding a run promoted here - I am glad he did it.
A customer complaining it was late but not saying anything about the guitar isn't right surely. I am only defending as I had a very positive experience, I know few others who have too. Not allowed my own opinion as it was positive experience? He is actually trying to help out the Siggery situation but I guess isn't looking for praise when not writing in the forum.
It's not as easy as throwing custom stock up online. Some guitars have custom inlays et, Pickups ordered, whatever.
Using this forum is his decision. Paying for the service of advertising and promoting in a forum might not work for him as he doesn't have the time to update the forum as often as he would like. (reading back on previous posts). He now has a mod trying to call him out and not trying to contact him and ask him to sort it out in a professional manner. it seems you are so well versed on this for him to continue to pay for the service.
A customer complaining it was late but not saying anything about the guitar isn't right surely.