The Sacred Seven Modes- HELP!!!

[SkullCrusher]

hey there

ive been learning my 7 mores dorian,phygrian etc.

i have been learning them in the key of C. So the first (ioanian) is C, but it says 2. (dorian) is D, so you play dorian in D if you are playing a song in the key of C? and so on? also 3. phygrian is E if you are in the key of C?

help would be much appreciated.

Thanks Dominic

 

[Phlegethon]

hey there

ive been learning my 7 mores dorian,phygrian etc.

i have been learning them in the key of C. So the first (ioanian) is C, but it says 2. (dorian) is D so you play dorian in D if you are playing a song in the key of C? and so on? also 3. phygrian is E if you are in the key of C?

help would be much appreciated.

Thanks Dominic

the way that I was able to understand modes was doing something similar, and yes it's right


when playing modes, you're playing from one root note to another root note while using the key signature of a scale that's NOT the one you're playing. to tie this in with what you just said:

D dorian when written out would be D E F G A B C. remember that bit for now, and read the bit below

C ionian (or C major) which is the "parent" mode in this case would be the unrelated scale you're basing dorian off of, and it would be C D E F G A B

notice how the scales are the same but have different starting notes? that's how all the modes are constructed. so you were able to understand it right by doing it that way, although having someone else come along to confirm it is a nice thing. . .lol

 

[Mr. Big Noodles]

Yes. You can have any mode on any note. It just happens that learning musicians get caught up in the key of C, since it's an easy key to remember (no sharps or flats to worry about).

Here's D major: D E F# G A B C#
Here's D dorian: D E F G A B C
D phrygian: D Eb F G A Bb C
D lydian: D E F# G# A B C#
D mixolydian: D E F# G A B C
D aeolian: D E F G A Bb C
D locrian: D Eb F G Ab Bb C



We can do it on C, too.

C major: C D E F G A B
C lydian: C D E F# G A B
C Mixolydian: C D E F G A Bb
C dorian: C D Eb F G A Bb
C aeolian: C D Eb F G Ab Bb
C phrygian: C Db Eb F G Ab Bb
C locrian: C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb

That's the parallel way to think of modes: giving them the same tonic. We're usually taught to think of them in relative terms, i.e.: containing the same notes as another scale or mode.

D major - (All modes of D major will be derived from the D major scale.)
Mode 1, Ionian: D E F# G A B C#
Mode 2, Dorian: E F# G A B C# D
Mode 3, Phrygian: F# G A B C# D E
Mode 4, Lydian: G A B C# D E F#
Mode 5, Mixolydian: A B C# D E F# G
Mode 6, Aeolian: B C# D E F# G A
Mode 7, Locrian: C# D E F# G A B



There's an intervallic formula that goes with modes. Number the notes of the major scale, let's take E major, E F# G# A B C# D#, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. Think 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 = major scale. Now, every time we alter a note from that formula, we're going to place an accidental in front of the corresponding number. Let's say we want E mixolydian, E F# G# A B C# D. That's 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7. Here's a chart I made a long time ago that does this for all of the modes. You can see their relation:

Also, having a circle of fifths is useful. This is a big image, so I'm going to link it.

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt274/Schecterwhore/Music Theory/CircleofFifthsSig.jpg

 

[SkullCrusher]

Thanks guys, this means alot

but say im playing in the key of D. Then i fancy doing a solo. then i want to use mixolydian so do i use these notes:A B C# D E F# G or these ones? D E F# G A B C??

not sure if u catch my drift but do you use the converted notes from the same scale or do you use the same shape in its own scale?

 

[Mr. Big Noodles]

Depends. "Key of D" means a lot of things.

The most common meaning is "key of D major", which means the notes D E F# G A B C#. The chords in this context suggest the key of D major, and introducing outside notes takes some finesse.

The second meaning means that D is the tonic, no matter what the mode (major, minor, phrygian, lydian, etc.). This can even mean that you're moving around a pedal point, going between modes. However, you always have to have chords that suggest the mode that you're intending.

Now, in regards to your question, if you have a chord progression in D major and you play A mixolydian (the relative mixolydian mode to D major), then it's no different than playing D major over D major. In fact, that's exactly what it is. If, instead, you want to play D mixolydian over a D mixolydian progression, you have to have chords that support D mixolydian. Something like D G C D would suggest D mixolydian.

Then, there's polymodality, but that's really whatever you want. No guarantees it'll sound pretty.

 

[SkullCrusher]

Thats makes sense

Thank you sooooo much Mr. Whore

thanks again
Dominic

 

[Mr. Big Noodles]

Thank you sooooo much Mr. Whore

The sentiment is mutual, I assure you.

 

[Dirtdog]

Sometimes what helped for me is to relate the major sounding modes to the major scale and the minor sounding modes to the minor scale. I.E. Lydian, and Mixolydian to Major and Dorian, Phrygian, and Locrian to Minor scale (Aeolian mode) The sharps and flats are usally related to the major scale but short cutting the minors back to the minor scale makes more sense IMO. Not to confuse you more. Also this makes more sense patternwise since you can see how from the dorian mode you just need to move the 6th note up a half step to get Dorian. and Move the 2nd note down a half step to get phrygian. Locarian you need to do 2 notes down. Kinda like a phrygian with a flat 5. Major works the same. To get mixolydian move the 7th note down a half step, and to get Lydian move the 4th note up a half step. Anyway thats my 2 cents worth.

 

[Hollowway]

Thank you sooooo much Mr. Whore

Love it! That is definitely a sig-worthy quote!