The "shredding has no feeling" rant

[Drew]

What Chris said.

I'll also mention that, when I'm fucking around on a guitar in a guitar shop, odds are I'm not playing music. I'm just fucking around, blowing through scales, and having fun. Is that noise? Probably. Is it a little low on feeling? Probably, it's just me wanking off.

If anyone said something? I'd say, "That's cool, man, I'm just running through scales. If you want emotion, grab a guitar and break into the Comfortably Numb changes, and I'll give you emotion. If not, then leave me alone to enjoy myself, because frankly this might not be the most emotional thing you've ever heard, but it sure as fuck is fun."

 

[jacksonplayer]

If anyone said something? I'd say, "That's cool, man, I'm just running through scales. If you want emotion, grab a guitar and break into the Comfortably Numb changes, and I'll give you emotion. If not, then leave me alone to enjoy myself, because frankly this might not be the most emotional thing you've ever heard, but it sure as fuck is fun."

That's exactly it! I usually end up shredding in the store just because that's how I enjoy playing, but I rarely turn up the amp to even moderate volume, unless it's the amp itself that I'm evaluating.

 

[Jeff]

Hey y'all.

/rant

I'm relatively new here, been playing guitar for 15 years and I love shredding. I may not even be that good at it, but i still love it. (i can pull off Paradigm Shift.)

So i'm in the local music store going as fast as humanly possible because...that's what i like to do.... and i hear the most dumb assed comment of "that's just noise, no feeling at all." Noise? I didn't say anything back...just kept playing.

Is it just me or does anyone else get the instant desire knock someone's teeth out when something like this is said? I worked hard to get technique, speed and accuracy, and i'm positive everyone else who has the shredding bug loves going playing to the most extreme of their ability. It just pisses me off when some stupid fat asshole playing a store Gibson at near earbleeding volume thru a Twin (and badly) makes comments like this.

Almost every shred video on youtube has some jerk saying "oh there's no feeling in there" or crap like that. Are shredders allowed to make rips on people like Clapton with "he's just not playing fast enough?"

/end rant

I like ss.org's emoticons.

Shredding without feeling is a bullshit comment, always has been. I think what they're really trying to say but are too stupid to is that shredding needs good phrasing to be impressive, otherwise it's boring.

I prefer JP over Cooley anyday, because I think JP has a better grasp of phrasing to fit a song that Cooley does.

But I still think Cooley rips, and I like watching him play.

Someone making a comment about you shredding while testing out gear at a music store? I'd say "did you buy a ticket to watch me play? No? Then gargle shit and leave me alone".

That's just stupid. If your style of music requires shred, even melodic, well phrased shred, it still requires you to test an instrument to see if it's comfortable for such activity. Thus the instore shredding that occurs.

 

[jacksonplayer]

Someone making a comment about you shredding while testing out gear at a music store? I'd say "did you buy a ticket to watch me play? No? Then gargle shit and leave me alone".

Yeah, that's about what I'd say, as well. Funny, though, I've only ever gotten compliments or technique questions whenever I shred at a store. And I'm hardly the biggest shredmonster out there.

 

[starsnuffer]

It's music. That means it's art, not math.

You decide. The ability to play fast and precise is a tool in the toolbox, a means to an end, but it is not the point. Sometimes it fits the song or the art, sometimes it doesn't.

To the original poster though. . . many times you will hear someone wanking in a guitar center. They will be flogging through sweep arpeggios and scales as fast as I can, however, 90% of these guys have absolutly no sense of timing and rhythym, and it really does sound just like noise. The only thing worse is playing enter sandman.

-W

 

[canuck brian]

Well I posted that post right before I went to go see the Trans Siberian Orchestra...didn't think I'd cause that much of a stir.

Ok....i wasn't trying to get the whole shred VS Feeling thing happening. I respect guys like Clapton, Gilmour etc..... The solos from Comfortably Numb are right up there in my top 10... right beside the solo from The Audience is Listening by Steve Vai.

I was playing at a barely audible level as I can't stand when other people do it. I just got mad because i can't figure out where someone gets off taking a crack at me for shredding. If i pick up a guitar, i want to know how it plays, so I do my thing..... Where does the asshole get off saying something like that? I don't walk up to kids that have just started playing and say "you suck. Stop playing." I dont' walk up to guys playing slow and bluesy and with "feeling" and say "hey, you're playing too slow. You suck. Play faster."


yes yes, I'll take singing notes over a blur of two hand tapping any day

That's great! It's also YOUR opinion. I'll take the blur of notes. But hey, who am I to decide what I like.

If you can play 80 notes a second but can't make one note sing for 4-6 beats, don't you think you need to take a look at your technique?

What if i dont' want to make those notes sing and what if I really don't care? Maybe I want to to play at that 80 notes a second. Who are you to tell me how **I** should play? Who am I trying to impress? These are the kinds of things that I'm rather stunned that people don't grasp.

 

[Nik]

If you can play 80 notes a second but can't make one note sing for 4-6 beats, don't you think you need to take a look at your technique?

What if i dont' want to make those notes sing and what if I really don't care? Maybe I want to to play at that 80 notes a second. Who are you to tell me how **I** should play? Who am I trying to impress? These are the kinds of things that I'm rather stunned that people don't grasp.

I think you missed the point of that post.

He meant that it's silly to shred 80 notes a second but be unable to make one sing, because playing a single note and making it sing is a much more basic concept than playing 80 notes per second.

You are free to play 80 notes per second if you desire, but you should also be able to make a single note sing because it's a much more basic thing that every guitarist should do.

Tone comes from the fingers. I've seen people who have been playing for not that long shred just as well as pros that have been doing it for over a decade. However, it's much easier to tell who the more experienced guitarist is by simply playing something slow. The tone, those single, slow singing notes sound much better in the hands of an experienced guitarist.

As for the store thing, I also play at low volume when I go there. The only reason I'd consider cranking it is if I want to test out a tube amp and I need to crank it to get that saturated tube sound.

However, my point is this: I never said shredding isn't fun. If you like going to the guitar store and cranking it and showing off, good for you. However, you must keep in mind this: just because youre having so much fun and enjoying yourself doesn't automatically mean that others will enjoy it as well.

 

[Popsyche]

However, my point is this: I never said shredding isn't fun. If you like going to the guitar store and cranking it and showing off, good for you. However, you must keep in mind this: just because youre having so much fun and enjoying yourself doesn't automatically mean that others will enjoy it as well.

And then there are those guys who just go in to see how big of a dickhead they can be. I agree with you guys, in that you are playing to test something out, minding your own business, and doing your thing. It is not a talent show! If you have to show off you talents at GC, then you probably don't have any!

 

[canuck brian]

I think you missed the point of that post.

He meant that it's silly to shred 80 notes a second but be unable to make one sing, because playing a single note and making it sing is a much more basic concept than playing 80 notes per second.

You are free to play 80 notes per second if you desire, but you should also be able to make a single note sing because it's a much more basic thing that every guitarist should do.

However, my point is this: I never said shredding isn't fun. If you like going to the guitar store and cranking it and showing off, good for you. However, you must keep in mind this: just because youre having so much fun and enjoying yourself doesn't automatically mean that others will enjoy it as well.

Don't get me wrong here. I understand that trying to make 1 or 2 notes sing over 80 notes in a second is definitely something that every guitar play should really know how to do, but it isn't something that every guitar play should HAVE to do. That's my point.

I have no doubt that you enjoy shredding and I really wouldn't want to put that into debate, nor did I. I rarely ever play above a whisper inside a guitar store because i really don't want people to be irritated by my playing. I also never stated I crank up any amps and play excessively...quite the opposite actually. It was while I was doing this that the guy that I mentioned in the original post made the asinine comment. I try to be the most considerate person in stores because i used to work in one and there was nothing I hated more than people playing loudly....constantly....usually badly.

 

[Drew]

Don't get me wrong here. I understand that trying to make 1 or 2 notes sing over 80 notes in a second is definitely something that every guitar play should really know how to do, but it isn't something that every guitar play should HAVE to do. That's my point.

I have no doubt that you enjoy shredding and I really wouldn't want to put that into debate. I rarely ever play above a whisper inside a guitar store because i really don't want people to be irritated by my playing. I try to be the most considerate person in stores because i used to work in one and there was nothing I hated more than people playing loudly....constantly....usually badly.

But, you have to be aware there IS another side of the coin, even if it's one you don't like. It's all well and good to say that no one should tell you what you have to play, and everyone should respect you for doing your own thing. But the sad fact of the matter is we live in the real world. You know the joke about how you need ten guitarists to change a lightbulb, one to do it and nine to tell you how much better they could have been done. Like it or not, when you pick up a guitar in a guitar store, you WILL be judged.

Now, I like shred as much as the next guy for one simple reason - it's fun. That's why I do it. However, if you're sitting there ripping off scale runs and arpeggios, you have to be aware that for at least some of the people listening to you that WILL be noise. In an ideal world they'd write it off as personal taste and leave it at that, but the other downer of this real world of ours is it's populated by a lot of dicks, and some of 'em are bound to say something.

I grant you that you shouldn't HAVE to play tastefully, but on the other sde of the coin, if you don't you have to be prepared to take a bit of flack for it. It's life, it comes with the territory, and no amount of righteous indignation is going to change that, you know?

 

[canuck brian]

But, you have to be aware there IS another side of the coin, even if it's one you don't like. It's all well and good to say that no one should tell you what you have to play, and everyone should respect you for doing your own thing. But the sad fact of the matter is we live in the real world. You know the joke about how you need ten guitarists to change a lightbulb, one to do it and nine to tell you how much better they could have been done. Like it or not, when you pick up a guitar in a guitar store, you WILL be judged.

Now, I like shred as much as the next guy for one simple reason - it's fun. That's why I do it. However, if you're sitting there ripping off scale runs and arpeggios, you have to be aware that for at least some of the people listening to you that WILL be noise. In an ideal world they'd write it off as personal taste and leave it at that, but the other downer of this real world of ours is it's populated by a lot of dicks, and some of 'em are bound to say something.

I grant you that you shouldn't HAVE to play tastefully, but on the other sde of the coin, if you don't you have to be prepared to take a bit of flack for it. It's life, it comes with the territory, and no amount of righteous indignation is going to change that, you know?

I'll have to agree with you 100% on all points there. I think we just got off on the wrong foot....

 

[kmanick]

and I didn't say you should "have to" but if you can sprint full speed but you trip over your own feet when you walk doesn't that raise a red flag with you.?
we are talking "Music" here not gymnastics. Does every single song you know
call for 80 notes a second? Do you only want to be able play one very specific type of music?
when you write your own stuff do you want it to all sound exactly the same?
if yes shred your heart out. You have my blessings my the shred be with you
I love to shred, I shred my ass off every chance I get but I also learned a long time ago, if you
don't know how to grab a single note and make it sing..... no
matter how "fucking good you think you are while you're sitting there sweeping arps etc",
other musicians that are seasoned and really know their shit are going to think you suck. Period like it or not. Musicians are a critical bunch (especially the ones that "cant' do")
Why do you think guys like Cooley, Goerge Bellas, Francesco Ferrari etc get bashed all the time.
their vibrato is fucking weak, they are one dimensional players (well maybe not Cooley) but you get my point.
I bought Bella's first Cd, it's fucking horrible, evey lead he does is "exactly the same" on the whole CD. He's fst and smooth as hell. so what? his solos don't say anything ...........ever!
Believe me if I hear someone shredding in a GC I'll go over and check him out, if he's got no vibrato or "feel" or
what ever you want to call it, he loses me right there.
but as long as you're not blasting my ears out I really don't care what you're playing I'm going to go find something to "shred" on Myself somewhere else in the store.
But to each his own

 

[Popsyche]

What Chris said.

I'll also mention that, when I'm fucking around on a guitar in a guitar shop, odds are I'm not playing music. I'm just fucking around, blowing through scales, and having fun. Is that noise? Probably. Is it a little low on feeling? Probably, it's just me wanking off.

If anyone said something? I'd say, "That's cool, man, I'm just running through scales. If you want emotion, grab a guitar and break into the Comfortably Numb changes, and I'll give you emotion. If not, then leave me alone to enjoy myself, because frankly this might not be the most emotional thing you've ever heard, but it sure as fuck is fun."

And ANOTHER point! Drew, when you grabbed my swirlie guitar the first thing you did with it was play some long soulful notes, right? Of course not! When Chris gets a rental car out in the desert, he loafs along like a geriatric, right?

Of course not you open it up and see what it'll do. You test the performance, you see if you are faster or better on that guitar than the ones you already know. Especially in a music store! I see if I blither better on that guitar than one I have already.

The basic point here is...That "fat asshole" needs to STFU! He has no right to judge someone trying out a guitar in a music store.

Sure shred can have feeling! I try to feel all the notes I play.

 

[Nik]

I have no doubt that you enjoy shredding and I really wouldn't want to put that into debate, nor did I. I rarely ever play above a whisper inside a guitar store because i really don't want people to be irritated by my playing. I also never stated I crank up any amps and play excessively...quite the opposite actually. It was while I was doing this that the guy that I mentioned in the original post made the asinine comment. I try to be the most considerate person in stores because i used to work in one and there was nothing I hated more than people playing loudly....constantly....usually badly.

BTW, I wasn't attacking you or anything with my post I respect the fact that you're considerate.

I did make quite a rumble at GC once, but that's only because the asshole that had tried the amp before me had left the volume all the way up When I hit the 'on' switch, the damn thing erupted.

Kind of off-topic.. but, uh,...

I like to think I can shred, even though I really suck at it. At any rate, I only resort to shredding when I can't think of anything to play

 

[kmanick]

quote"

The basic point here is...That "fat asshole" needs to STFU! He has no right to judge someone trying out a guitar in a music store
"quote"
I agree 100%

 

[includao]

Shawn Lane = god-like vibrato and perfect technique

 

[canuck brian]

BTW, I wasn't attacking you or anything with my post I respect the fact that you're considerate.

Nooooooo worries at all there. .

and I didn't say you should "have to" but if you can sprint full speed but you trip over your own feet when you walk doesn't that raise a red flag with you.?

You're assuming that since I like to play fast almost all the time that I don't know how to play slowly and choose my notes carefully.

Anyways....
Does anyone know what Derek Taylor is up to these days? Waaaaay back, I picked up his band Crimeny's disk Peat. It's still one of my faves with some of the most amazing leads (yes....tasty, soulful leads).

 

[Drew]

And ANOTHER point! Drew, when you grabbed my swirlie guitar the first thing you did with it was play some long soulful notes, right? Of course not!

True. I laughed my ass off. That thing was fuckin' swirled in neon colors, for the love of all things sacred.

 

[distressed_romeo]

You're assuming that since I like to play fast almost all the time that I don't know how to play slowly and choose my notes carefully.

Anyways....
Does anyone know what Derek Taylor is up to these days? Waaaaay back, I picked up his band Crimeny's disk Peat. It's still one of my faves with some of the most amazing leads (yes....tasty, soulful leads).

He has another band, Stara Zagora, but it's more melodic rock without much lead guitar. Apparently he spends most of his time producing local bands.

The Crimeny album is a great one.

 

[Nik]

He has another band, Stara Zagora

WTF? (Stara Zagora is a Bulgarian town. I'm originally Bulgarian, so...)

Is their name the only Bulgarian thing about them?