Adam
Contributor
The "shredding has no feeling" rant
- Thread starter canuck brian
- Start date
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Wiggywiggler
ss.org erroneous
Bacon and Christian?
Exactamundo.. I picked that off a fellow Finn on some forum, methinks. Thought it was pretty funny
Naren
OldschoolGhettostyle
I've actually heard people complain about that. And on some songs, I think that rhythm guitar parts are too fast -- for the music they're playing (well, for my taste, I guess). With different music, the same speed could be fine or even awesome. I think a lot of thrash and death metal insanely fast riffs can sound really cool, but a lot of the power metal fast riffs are not very memorable and seem to be fast just for the sake of being fast.
well, i havent heard anyone complaining "God damn jon schaffer, with his fast unmusical rhythm guitar parts!" or anything like that... the problem with a lot of power metal 'riffing' thats high speed is its 16th notes at 220 BPM but just holding root notes.. 2 bars Of E, 2 bars of C 2 bars of D, fill, repeat. thats not riffing
Naren
OldschoolGhettostyle
well, i havent heard anyone complaining "God damn jon schaffer, with his fast unmusical rhythm guitar parts!" or anything like that... the problem with a lot of power metal 'riffing' thats high speed is its 16th notes at 220 BPM but just holding root notes.. 2 bars Of E, 2 bars of C 2 bars of D, fill, repeat. thats not riffing
Good point.
I've never complained about it, but I've known people who do.
I don't think calling shredding "unmusical" makes any sense whatsoever, especially since a lot of those people consider "hip hop" to be music.
Wiggywiggler
ss.org erroneous
Strumming ftw
I've heard complaints about how the bass drums are too fast.. but never ont he guitars/bass that plays 16ths on top of that
I've heard complaints about how the bass drums are too fast.. but never ont he guitars/bass that plays 16ths on top of that
I look at this topic two ways, is playing fast just because you can play fast best for the song, NO.
For example dragon force plays quite fast, however it seems it is just for the sake of playing fast. The music is not what stands out, its the speed (and they aren't that fast to begin with)
now a band like symphony X, take a CD like DWOT most the songs are quite fast (with slower parts and acoustic parts) but everything fits the song perfectly. The music sounds amazing and the speed is just a tool to make the music work.
The way i look at shred is that its a tool to make you a better musician. And like any tool you need to know how to use it to be effective with it.
For example dragon force plays quite fast, however it seems it is just for the sake of playing fast. The music is not what stands out, its the speed (and they aren't that fast to begin with)
now a band like symphony X, take a CD like DWOT most the songs are quite fast (with slower parts and acoustic parts) but everything fits the song perfectly. The music sounds amazing and the speed is just a tool to make the music work.
The way i look at shred is that its a tool to make you a better musician. And like any tool you need to know how to use it to be effective with it.
Drew
Forum MVP
It's called "contrast" - that 33nps sweep arpeggio can sound fucking badass if it's used to set up an awesomly-executed sustained overbend or something. My favorite players are the ones who have clearly spent their time getting the blues rock thing down cold, but can also melt your face off when they need to - see George Lynch.
I'm with the general consensus here- shred for the sake of shred is kind of boring to listen to. Honestly, speed impresses me a lot less in your usual Guitar Center shredder than it used to, because the envelope has been pushed SO far by guys like Rusty Cooley. You can't just play fast and impress people anymore, because unless you're death-defyingly good there's a ton of guys who are worlds faster than you are.
"Shred" (and I don't even like that term, to be honest) for me is best used within the contexts of a melodic solo, as another aural texture. The give-and-take between sheets of 32nd notes and those perfect two-or-three note resulutions are for me what makes a solo interesting. I'd rather listen to David Gilmour than Michael Batio anyday, but I'd also rather listen to a guy who can mix both attributes smoothly within one solo than Gilmour alone nine times out of ten.
To put it into perspective, Satch's "Until We Say Goodbye" lead break is one of my absolute favorite solos for more or less this exact reason - it's a beautiful melodic solo that he keeps smoothly and unpredictaly dipping into brief rapid-fire slippery little explosions of notes, and I LOVE that contrast.
I've been really impressed with Guthrie Govan, precisely because his shred is very musical. I was kind of skeptical until I heard his work, because I only knew of him as the guy who had been playing in Asia for awhile. He's gone a long ways past "Heat of the Moment"! 
Shawn Lane was the same way. Forget Lane's exercises and video stuff. Check out his work with Jonas Hellborg in front of real audiences. He did more insane musical twists and turns in the space of ten minutes than most people ever do. And he could totally groove with the other musicians, not just show off.
Shawn Lane was the same way. Forget Lane's exercises and video stuff. Check out his work with Jonas Hellborg in front of real audiences. He did more insane musical twists and turns in the space of ten minutes than most people ever do. And he could totally groove with the other musicians, not just show off.
Briggs
7-string noob
I used to be a shredder...(admittedly, not really lighting speed fast although)...I was into vai, satriani, dream theater...
then I was into the blues... bb king, srv etc...
then the seattle sound came to be. Initially I was resistant, but later warmed up to nirvana, stp, smashing pumpkins etc....
then the tool, deftones, korn thing happened...
most of these bands obviously focus more on the rhythm guitar, which is what the shredders were lacking (exception: some of satriani's rhythm playing is excellent[insert self titled album here])
I think, generally, most of the shredders focus more on technique than the music...and I think it's really bitten them in the arse...
as for feeling... alot of solos are cheap, bloated, focusing on fretboard gymnastics, flashyness etc. I don't think there is ROOM for feeling in shred... they generally don't leave too many spaces between notes...
then there's David Gilmour.... this is what should be, or what already is the standard for tastefull guitar solos.
then I was into the blues... bb king, srv etc...
then the seattle sound came to be. Initially I was resistant, but later warmed up to nirvana, stp, smashing pumpkins etc....
then the tool, deftones, korn thing happened...
most of these bands obviously focus more on the rhythm guitar, which is what the shredders were lacking (exception: some of satriani's rhythm playing is excellent[insert self titled album here])
I think, generally, most of the shredders focus more on technique than the music...and I think it's really bitten them in the arse...
as for feeling... alot of solos are cheap, bloated, focusing on fretboard gymnastics, flashyness etc. I don't think there is ROOM for feeling in shred... they generally don't leave too many spaces between notes...
then there's David Gilmour.... this is what should be, or what already is the standard for tastefull guitar solos.
I was always too much of a metalhead to worry about pansy things like feelings.
Briggs
7-string noob
I was always too much of a metalhead to worry about pansy things like feelings.
ha ha
I guess, I've always been a metalhead, since metallica's: and justice for all
the problem I find with a lot of amateur shredders (even some of the pros) are that their vibrato just plain out sucks. I think that's what a lot of people actually mean when they so "no feeling"
If you can play 80 notes a second but can't make one note sing for 4-6 beats, don't you think you need to take a look at your technique?
Shredders that have a good solid blues base are always my favorite to listen to, like Drew said earlier, being able to mix it up and add 'texture' is what separates the men from the boys. that's one of the reasons Satch is so much more popular thatn a lot of other shereders that can ,speed wise" destroy him.
He says something with his solos because he has vibrato and he understands that playing all out full speed all the time is boring.
David Gilmours vibrato is amazing, as is Jeff Becks and Robin Trowers.
Listen to early Greg Howe and you'll hear his vibrato kind of sucks, its way too fast and shakey. Listen to his newer material and he's matured, he still fucking flat out flies all over the place but now he can make his notes really sing.
If you can play 80 notes a second but can't make one note sing for 4-6 beats, don't you think you need to take a look at your technique?
Shredders that have a good solid blues base are always my favorite to listen to, like Drew said earlier, being able to mix it up and add 'texture' is what separates the men from the boys. that's one of the reasons Satch is so much more popular thatn a lot of other shereders that can ,speed wise" destroy him.
He says something with his solos because he has vibrato and he understands that playing all out full speed all the time is boring.
David Gilmours vibrato is amazing, as is Jeff Becks and Robin Trowers.
Listen to early Greg Howe and you'll hear his vibrato kind of sucks, its way too fast and shakey. Listen to his newer material and he's matured, he still fucking flat out flies all over the place but now he can make his notes really sing.
True, but that's just about being a good player, period. I've heard plenty of 'slow' players with shitty vibrato, too. It's all about the phrasing. You can phrase in fast lines just as well as you can in slow ones, but it just takes a bit more work. When Vai works out his stuff, he's not just figuring out the best fingerings, but the exact phrasing he will use on every note. And that's why even his fast playing is so lyrical.
Briggs
7-string noob
leatherface2
Well-Known Member
shred is like kung fu.need to be fast but also have feel.thats why bruce lee is a god.he had both
7StringofAblicK
Contributor
Melodic Shred
Soilwork's "A Predator's Portrait."
That's all i have to say
Soilwork's "A Predator's Portrait."
That's all i have to say
I fucking love Satch's "Surfing With The Alien" album. It's just awesome, I couldn't remove a single note from that record... That's the kind of "shred" I like, just for the sake of the song.
spooky breakfast
its gettin heavy
yes yes, I'll take singing notes over a blur of two hand tapping any day!
tapping, to me at least, hasn't really meant anything. its pretty easy to do and after maybe a week or two of practice your about as good as you'll get. it sounds cool, but people try to show off with it too much. its like bouncing the edge of your pick against the string. it can sound fast and make some interesting noises, but its simple. why would you use that to show of? i'm more impressed by feedback/harmonic soloes (tools "triad") to turn something into a technique is great, but don't ride on it. i can't see anything ever replacing pure "jazz" guitar as the standard for good players.
