Thermionik Amp VSTs - Holy S***!!!!!!

[steelyad]

Hey Guys

Sorry i've been away for a while (studio flooded, video on that posted soon).

I've been turned on to the Thermionik plugins by Kazrog, and holy cow they're awesome! I was using Poulin's Lecto and HyBrit before, and with all respect to Alain Poulin, they've gone in the digital bin.

I also used Recabinet by the same guy to load the Rosen Digital American Custom IR, because I wanted to try the plugin. The inbuilt LP and HP are very useful, and the "dynamics" switch gave the low end thump some extra life that's very hard to put a finger on.... sounds great though.

The amps I tested here are:- Dual Rec (2ch), Friedman BE-100, Mesa IIC+ and mark IV, JCM800 and 5150 MK1.
There are loads more, but at $12.99 per amp, i'll sure as hell be getting a few.



Steelyad

 

[Steinmetzify]

Yeah I tried these on the demo when he released them. Wasn't enough to make me ditch the AxeFx, but these were really impressive compared to what else is out there.

 

[steelyad]

You on AxeFX II? It is better, but you do have to commit the ~2 grand. Performance to dollar? This works in a lot of situations.
Also, in the studio I use the real amps, mostly because people expect to see amps/cabs when they're paying money, so that's where the budget goes. Any stuff I record at home I can't be spending that much on a secondary rig!

 

[Kazrog]

Great video! Very much enjoyed the in-depth approach - glad to see also that someone appreciates the bold/spongy and silicon/tubes toggles other than me.

As an aside - I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone to ditch their hardware (analog or digital.) My job is to match the behavior of the real amps. I think that hardware and software will always continue to coexist. That said, the big advantage with software is that you can run as many instances as you need without having to spend additional money or eat up physical room.

 

[Descent]

I am running the trial right now and actually quite underwhelmed by their approach. Their cab modeler is kind of a different take on NadIR, although very close to it, the impulses that came with the trial are OK, but nothing mind blowing and I can't seem to figure out what amp I am picking due to the weird name structure, which I guess is understandable due to copyright limitations. The way you load each amp separately I find myself I am constantly loading amps and have to tweak them with effects before and after the amp is in the chain, they never sit right by themselves.
In comparison, Amplitube is much easier to work with and if you go picking their amps a-la carte you'd probably get more for less.
I was definitely expecting more...I'd say that these are good for djent and so far I haven't been able to say I like them for anything else, just too hard to tweak as they require a lot of external help from the DAW effects.

 

[steelyad]

I am running the trial right now and actually quite underwhelmed by their approach. Their cab modeler is kind of a different take on NadIR, although very close to it, the impulses that came with the trial are OK, but nothing mind blowing and I can't seem to figure out what amp I am picking due to the weird name structure, which I guess is understandable due to copyright limitations. The way you load each amp separately I find myself I am constantly loading amps and have to tweak them with effects before and after the amp is in the chain, they never sit right by themselves.
In comparison, Amplitube is much easier to work with and if you go picking their amps a-la carte you'd probably get more for less.
I was definitely expecting more...I'd say that these are good for djent and so far I haven't been able to say I like them for anything else, just too hard to tweak as they require a lot of external help from the DAW effects.

Recabinet has been around longer than NadIR by a long stretch, so it's the other way around.
As for them being separate VSTs, that's something I much prefer because i'm not mollycoddled by an overall shell where i'd only turn off all the other stuff anyway. As for the impulses, I didn't use them so i'm not going to enter that debate, but the loader was as competent as any other i've used and the CPU usage was low.
If you pick Amplitube's amps a-la-carte, in my opinion you will end up with a far inferior sound, money aside. I've been using Amplitube since version 2 and apart from the newer marshall sims, they're way out of date tone wise..... for me, sound comes far above anything else and this has it in spades.
And I think I got a decent tone out of them in what i'd definitely not call djent....

 

[niffnoff]

I am running the trial right now and actually quite underwhelmed by their approach. Their cab modeler is kind of a different take on NadIR, although very close to it, the impulses that came with the trial are OK, but nothing mind blowing and I can't seem to figure out what amp I am picking due to the weird name structure, which I guess is understandable due to copyright limitations. The way you load each amp separately I find myself I am constantly loading amps and have to tweak them with effects before and after the amp is in the chain, they never sit right by themselves.
In comparison, Amplitube is much easier to work with and if you go picking their amps a-la carte you'd probably get more for less.
I was definitely expecting more...I'd say that these are good for djent and so far I haven't been able to say I like them for anything else, just too hard to tweak as they require a lot of external help from the DAW effects.

I found it the opposite. I found Amplitube (as well as Bias, POD Farm, and Guitar Rig) to be very post processing dependent to sound good in a mix. Where as lately Mercuriall and Therminonik Plugins only require a Screamer (if needed at all) and stamp on LeCab and good to go!

I've never had it come so easy until I tried those two plugins, I do like Therminonik for it's CPU easy interface and the fact of the matter I can run it on a bus means it's easy as heck to tweak.

 

[Descent]

Don't get me wrong - I don't hold the torch for Amplitube either. I use ver. 3 with my IR responses as their cabs are OK, but still no cigar. Their amp sim with my IRs matched pretty much cover everything and I don't need extra processing to make them sound good. On these I found I do...

At the end of the day is still mic my cabs and reamp through real gear. I am still not wholly convinced but I use sims for silent tracking when people are sleeping and just demoing stuff...when things are ready to og on the record I still go back to real stuff.

BTW - I don't get why having an app "wrapper" would be so bad on processing, after all they can load/unload the amp sims each, I don't think Amplitube loads all of their existing amp sims in real time memory.

 

[Elric]

Amplitube is pretty sweet these days, their big issue is that they have several 'generations' of stuff all smeared into one suite. The original model set is long in the tooth but still there beside the latest, greatest. They really took things up a notch in the last year or so but you have to know when a model was developed.

The Engls, the Oranges, and Mesas in particular are quite excellent. The new Marshalls are solid (but could still be a little btter, IMHO). Everything else feels 'old' and not up to par vs those to me. You could do an entire project with just the Mesa suite and get cutting edge sounds for the most part.

I have Thermionik but use Amplitube more. Recabinet is a big plus for Thermionik because IRs are really where it is at for cab tones. Like others I always end up adding IRs to plugins that don't have them but wish they were better integrated into other tools. S-Gear and Revalver do a good job with IR integration but some others that support it do not like: Bias+BiasFX (two separate apps? No stereo cabs?) then others like AT and POD Farm need to have it jammed in there....

 

[vertibration]

Amplitube is pretty sweet these days, their big issue is that they have several 'generations' of stuff all smeared into one suite. The original model set is long in the tooth but still there beside the latest, greatest. They really took things up a notch in the last year or so but you have to know when a model was developed.

The Engls, the Oranges, and Mesas in particular are quite excellent. The new Marshalls are solid (but could still be a little btter, IMHO). Everything else feels 'old' and not up to par vs those to me. You could do an entire project with just the Mesa suite and get cutting edge sounds for the most part.

I have Thermionik but use Amplitube more. Recabinet is a big plus for Thermionik because IRs are really where it is at for cab tones. Like others I always end up adding IRs to plugins that don't have them but wish they were better integrated into other tools. S-Gear and Revalver do a good job with IR integration but some others that support it do not like: Bias+BiasFX (two separate apps? No stereo cabs?) then others like AT and POD Farm need to have it jammed in there....

I actually dig Amplitube Mesa, Engl, and a few oranges. I disable the cab section and use impulses......However, the only plug that really sits well with me so far is the X50. Thermionik is excellent, but its almost there for me. Just some more refinement in the plug in suite, as well as combining thermionik and recabinet would make sense to me at least. I would like to see recabinet combined into the thermionik menu section, so you can just switch fast to make adjustments.

 

[Descent]

So Amplitube didn't resample their whole earlier package when they releases ver. 4.0? I'd imagine they'd run all these amps through their new batch technology, after all they're charging for it like they did?

I am mainly happy with Ampire on Studio One, maybe not very sophisticated as far as the effects are concerned but it has the IR loader built in and a quite good one at that.

Most of the time I use that one as I find I can tune it better than NadIR or the others, plus it mixes 3 mic impulses...but like I said, when ready - it goes through the Mesa or Orange through the real speakers and into the mics, and it just sits much better in the final mix.

 

[Jacksonluvr636]

So Amplitube didn't resample their whole earlier package when they releases ver. 4.0? I'd imagine they'd run all these amps through their new batch technology, after all they're charging for it like they did?

I am mainly happy with Ampire on Studio One, maybe not very sophisticated as far as the effects are concerned but it has the IR loader built in and a quite good one at that.

Most of the time I use that one as I find I can tune it better than NadIR or the others, plus it mixes 3 mic impulses...but like I said, when ready - it goes through the Mesa or Orange through the real speakers and into the mics, and it just sits much better in the final mix.

Not sure if you've tried the TSE but I like this one a lot.

https://www.tseaudio.com/home

I thought this Thermionik clip sounded pretty sick though and for the price? Seems like it can't be beat from what I'm hearing on various YouTube clips.

I just DL the trial. I only had a few minutes with it but I found it hard to get a good sound so idk what these guys are doing in the YouTube vids. Some of them sound killer.

I tried the Recab as well but when active it would mute the track automatically and I couldn't get it working so I went back to LeCab.

I'm gonna mess with it during the trial and if I can learn how to dial it in I may buy a sim or two.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yElb-m2wlNo

 

[ComaPrison]

Not sure if you've tried the TSE but I like this one a lot.

https://www.tseaudio.com/home

I thought this Thermionik clip sounded pretty sick though and for the price? Seems like it can't be beat from what I'm hearing on various YouTube clips.

I just DL the trial. I only had a few minutes with it but I found it hard to get a good sound so idk what these guys are doing in the YouTube vids. Some of them sound killer.

I tried the Recab as well but when active it would mute the track automatically and I couldn't get it working so I went back to LeCab.

I'm gonna mess with it during the trial and if I can learn how to dial it in I may buy a sim or two.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yElb-m2wlNo

I can tell you what they are doing... Post processing.

 

[Jacksonluvr636]

Well I wanted to update my post because it was unjust. Hopefully I can learn post processing because they had it sounding great

So anyway now that I've had a little time with it, these Thermionik Vsts are amazing!!!

It took a bit of time and you definitely have to do a little tweaking but so far these are definitly the best Vsts I've tried. Better than TSE IMO and the low prices makes it even better. Will definitely be picking some of these up.

 

[Emperoff]

Thermionik is awesome, but I admit I use it less and less these days due to them being separate plugins now. The interface of Recabinet 4 had everything I needed in one screen, and now switching amps and presets is a total pain in the ass.

 

[steelyad]

I can tell you what they are doing... Post processing.

Not necessarily.
Watch the video above. After the intro, I turn off any buss processing and mixing at all, and it still sounds awesome. You can see my full reaper screen.
Yes, I do mix with some PP for a track, but to demo these plugins, not so.
(After the intro, which is just to give an impression of a finished mix)

Most of getting a good amp tone is understanding how each amp works, tone stack response, gain structure etc. For example, I run a mesa mark IV with the bass control almost off, and compensate on the 5 band EQ. If I didn't, it would be a flubby mess. The marshall sims, on the other hand, can take a lot of bass because of where is affected in the signal path.

 

[vertibration]

Thermionik is awesome, but I admit I use it less and less these days due to them being separate plugins now. The interface of Recabinet 4 had everything I needed in one screen, and now switching amps and presets is a total pain in the ass.

Totally agree 100%. Worst idea to separate everything. It is a huge pain in the ass, and it made me move on to the X50 which is awesome.

All Kazrog has to do is slap recabinet 5 into the thermionik menu, so you can just switch back and forth easy, and save presets.

 

[vertibration]

Also, its not an all in one price point like Recabinet 4 was at $49. Now everything is sold separately. Devs need to make money, but at the expense of an interface? You can still charge seperately, but at the very least, have the option to connect thermionik and recabinet in one interface.

 

[Kazrog]

Also, its not an all in one price point like Recabinet 4 was at $49. Now everything is sold separately. Devs need to make money, but at the expense of an interface? You can still charge seperately, but at the very least, have the option to connect thermionik and recabinet in one interface.

OK, this is a huge jump to several conclusions which are incorrect. The choice to split everything into separate plugins had nothing to do with money - in fact, it may actually ensure that I make a bit less (at least in the short term.)

The choice had everything to do with providing as modular of a signal flow as possible, and staying true to the classic idea of plugins doing one thing well - rather than the bloatware we typically see now with amp sim plugins. This was not an easy choice for me to make - it's one that I weighed the pros and cons of for months during development.

In any case, I am working on a loader so that you can have go-to presets that combine amps, cabs, and whatever FX you want inside a single plugin instance.

 

[Elric]

OK, this is a huge jump to several conclusions which are incorrect. The choice to split everything into separate plugins had nothing to do with money - in fact, it may actually ensure that I make a bit less (at least in the short term.)

The choice had everything to do with providing as modular of a signal flow as possible, and staying true to the classic idea of plugins doing one thing well - rather than the bloatware we typically see now with amp sim plugins. This was not an easy choice for me to make - it's one that I weighed the pros and cons of for months during development.

FWIW, I consider it a significant downgrade in terms of interface/usability and like the other user (whether correct or not) makes me feel like it was a play to further monetize since it removed the integration and broke it out into two separate paid products. If your goal was to improve things I'd consider it a mistake for my tastes/work flow.

The recabinet interface is absolutely wretched at this point, IMHO. As a paying customer, I would LOVE to see it reworked at a bare minimum, if not reintegrated to Thermionik, if you decide to proved some kind of wrapper to integrate them as a sparate thing, I hope it will be provided to those who own both products.