This is the most racist campaign ad I have ever seen.

[Randy]

Straw Man? I'm using other examples to ask a QUESTION. What part of *that* is a straw man?

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[1][2]

Yeah, other... you know... inequivalent propositions (err... examples?) to make your point. We don't need a pedantic argument about what a "straw man" is in this thread. I'm just stating that, overall, your point in this thread was to water down the issue until there was nothing discernibly wrong about a clearly fear mongering campaign ad.

If he were from, you know, another political party... I can't say I would count on you coming in here and typing a book and a half to justify why it's a valid argument.

 

[bostjan]

Anyone here in the USA making an effort to learn English has my respect. Those who do not try to learn English are just here as tourists, and that is fine, but I don't expect that they plan to stay here.

If it was up to me, I would not allow licensing tests, such as driving, to be offered in languages other than those that posted notices are written. Likewise, if I was in China for a visit, I wouldn't expect the Chinese authorities to allow me to drive a car, carry a weapon, or perform skilled work on the infrastructure.

Call me what you will, but I truly believe there are sound reasons to feel this way.

As far as someone from another country coming here to perform unskilled work to make money to send home, I am not thrilled about it, but I sure can't blame the person for doing this. If I could make ten times as much as I make now pulling a level in a factory in Quebec, I would be really tempted to take the opprotunity, wouldn't you n'est pas?

 

[JeffFromMtl]

I'm surrounded by those people...in fact they're looking at me right now

how about this one......it's for a congressional seat in NORTH CAROLINA

 

[orb451]

Yeah, other... you know... inequivalent propositions (err... examples?) to make your point. We don't need a pedantic argument about what a "straw man" is in this thread. I'm just stating that, overall, your point in this thread was to water down the issue until there was nothing discernibly wrong about a clearly fear mongering campaign ad.

If he were from, you know, another political party... I can't say I would count on you coming in here and typing a book and a half to justify why it's a valid argument.

No Randy, we do need clarification on what a Straw Man is and isn't because clearly the term, like Red Herring, get's tossed around here willy nilly by people that have no capacity at all to argue or state their case or their opinions. It's that or it's Godwin's Law that gets invoked every time someone is backed into a corner whenever a discussion gets heated.

And you're telling me what my point was in this thread? No, you're telling me what you *think* my point was in this thread. Don't give me my opinion, I've courteously accepted differing views from you and everyone else on this site from the start. When I see someone else's opinion, and I disagree with it, I might ask for clarification. If that raises your "red flags" that's too bad. Whether you like or dislike me, or the fact that I get wordy in my posts does not concern me in the least. If you don't like it, don't read it, my avatar's always been the 8 ball so feel free to just skip past my posts whenever you feel the need. Don't worry I won't be offended.

I will gladly argue with you or anyone else all day long about this guy's "fear mongering". It's fucking laughable. Fear mongering from requiring a test taker to do so in written English as opposed to 12 other different languages? That constitutes fear mongering? Priceless. Is he rounding up immigrants en mass to be shipped to concentration camps? Is he talking at length about the dangers of said immigrants and the inherent evil they all possess? Is he talking about how his race of light skinned Americans are better than, or more *real* than any others?

All of the latter I'd consider fear mongering and silly. Asking people to take a test in English, because at the moment it still remains the USA's primary language is not. At least to me. And it's simultaneously funny and sad, that you think that it is. Just as, to you, I'm sure it's funny and sad that I feel the way I do. Such is life.

Lastly, when the Democrats are doing something worth backing, like repealing the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy, I support them. And for the record, I agreed with your sentiment in MY thread about that very issue, as it relates to voting on legislation ONE PIECE AT A TIME. Couldn't agree more with you about that. They should be voted on, on their own merits, and not have things tacked on that create more headaches and stall progress. If you have other examples of Democrats, or their candidates speaking out on various issues, I'd be happy to weigh in with my opinion. I may agree with them, I may not. Same with Republicans, I may agree with some things they say and do, and others have me facepalming hard.

Such is life.

 

[Scar Symmetry]

While I agree with what he's trying to communicate (albeit very poorly), using it as a campaign ad is fucking idiotic

Like the pause though, very pensive.

 

[Randy]

All of the latter I'd consider fear mongering and silly. Asking people to take a test in English, because at the moment it still remains the USA's primary language is not. At least to me. And it's simultaneously funny and sad, that you think that it is. Just as, to you, I'm sure it's funny and said that I feel the way I do. Such is life.

The "fear mongering" is not toward the immigrants, it's instilling fear into the audience that they need to do something about the immigrants. I get invites all the time to groups on facebook called stuff like "there's legislation to make Spanish the official language of the US", so-on and so-on.

Hell, last night I spoke to a woman who, almost out of nowhere said "I HATE OBAMA"! I asked her why... she said "because of him, I have no job and there are no jobs for white people anymore. All they want to hire are illegals and blacks". Coincidently, guess what state she was from? I'll let you figure that one out.

The "fear mongering" is telling these people "your language and your finances are in danger because of these people". That's what my opinion on what's being reinforced in this video. Personally, I think he made that rather clear and, in my opinion, you really have to suspend reality to believe it was anything else.

EDIT: To the original matter at hand, I get frustrated dealing with people who don't know English and I think it should be common sense to at least become familiar with the language and then learn it if you're going to live here. That should go without saying. I just don't think it's the most pressing item to campaign on and I think his choice of using it is indicative of the people he's trying to appeal to.

 

[mmr007]

here's more alabama goodness....why does he have a rifle? Maybe he just came from seeing his math tutor

 

[orb451]

The "fear mongering" is not toward the immigrants, it's instilling fear into the audience that they need to do something about the immigrants. I get invites all the time to groups on facebook called stuff like "there's legislation to make Spanish the official language of the US", so-on and so-on.

Hell, last night I spoke to a woman who, almost out of nowhere said "I HATE OBAMA"! I asked her why... she said "because of him, I have no job and there are no jobs for white people anymore. All they want to hire are illegals and blacks". Coincidently, guess what state she was from? I'll let you figure that one out.

The "fear mongering" is telling these people "your language and your finances are in danger because of these people". That's what's my opinion on what's being reinforced in this video. Personally, I think he made that rather clear and, in my opinion, you really have to suspend reality to believe it was anything else.

Well the first part of your post, about the woman who hates Obama sounds more like someone screwed over yet again by Affirmative Action, another institution we both disagree on.

I really don't see this ad as reinforcing that anti-immigrant mindset, clearly you do though. Clearly your reality and mine differ vastly.

 

[Evil7]

This guy: 1. Looks like a southern slave owner.
2. Talks like southern redneck country boy.
3. Plans to only make a state drivers test in English only.

Is he racist and dislikes forigners that can't communicate or read road signs?
I would say YES!
You connect the dots and read between the lines of what is being said.

Road signs and driving safety......
Knowing english to make the roads safe seems like a valid argument.

This video is not racist in content or in the words / idea he is promoting.
You just know he is racist by the nice southern "charm" he has while talking about the issue.

Is he racist? Fuck yeah! IMO
Is the video's information? No

 

[Razzy]

here's more alabama goodness....why does he have a rifle? Maybe he just came from seeing his math tutor

The only thing I noticed was poor trigger discipline.

If you hate Alabama so much, why don't you move? It seems like every post I read of yours says something about Alabama sucking ass. Move to Massachusetts or something.

 

[orb451]

Yeah no shit, or better yet, move to Canada or Europe, I hear they have no problems...

I keed I keed

 

[Scar Symmetry]

It's official, the UK is problem-free

 

[orb451]

It's official, the UK is problem-free

See that mmr007? PROBLEM FREE! It's utopia!!!! Everyone gets along and everything is awesome!

 

[mmr007]

The only thing I noticed was poor trigger discipline.

If you hate Alabama so much, why don't you move? It seems like every post I read of yours says something about Alabama sucking ass. Move to Massachusetts or something.

The things I hate about alabama are worth hating....and worth changing.

If I had a job in massachusetts, a house in massachusttes, or family in massachusetts, or friends in massachusstts, or my kids or I had any desire to move to massachusetts...we might just do that

 

[mmr007]

move to the UK? If Sarah palin ever becomes president I promise you I will

 

[Randy]

We can split a duplex.

 

[synrgy]

I really don't care for the 'if you don't like it then you can just get out' mentality. Life is never that simple, and I expect all of you to know better than to go there. One step behind that mentality is "they took our jerbs!!" If it made any sense at all, then *all* the people in.. I dunno.. let's say Detroit? They would just up and move some place that isn't a poverty stricken shit-hole, wouldn't they? Not to mention; Social ignorance doesn't exist in a vacuum, so it would be pointless to move somewhere else to escape it.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand:

Yes, I believe this man is a racist. There, I said it. Forget the policy itself and whether or not any of us agree with it. I believe the intended topic of discussion was whether or not this video was in any way racist, and I believe it is. To me, it's basically saying "We live in Amurikkka. Gorshdurnitt, say it in Amurikkkin, or go bak to yern own cuntry!"

We *do not* have an *official* language in this country. People seem to forget that. The reason we don't now, and never will, is deliberate. Every generation before us -- and plenty of this generation, I hope -- wanted this country to be a melting pot, where anyone could succeed regardless of their social, economic, or national background(s). Discrimination, just generally, is not supposed to be acceptable. Granted, it doesn't group 'language' in with 'race, religion, color or creed', but I feel like it's implied.

That's all supposed to be 'The American Dream'; to be able to pick ourselves up by our boot-straps and make something of ourselves with the sweat off our brow and using our intellect.

(That is all clearly just an opinion; I'm not trying to state it as fact.)

Generally speaking, a license to drive a car is just shy of being a prerequisite to being a productive member of our society. Not every State provides public transportation, let alone *adequate* public transportation. Shall we start counting off all the things we don't seem to want foreign born citizens to have in order to prove that we apparently just don't want 'them' here at all?

The same sense of entitlement that was mentioned in reference to immigrants; White America has it even WORSE. To me, THAT'S what this is about. This douchebag thinks he's entitled to say "Fuck you, this is MY country, and we're speaking MY language in MY country."

I feel that this legislation should not be allowed to even be brought to the table until or unless we -- as a country -- decide to grow a pair and make a *firm* decision about whether or not we have an *official* language. Why should anyone be required to speak a non-official language?

Sidebar: Is he proposing that they need to *speak* English, *read* English, or both? That's not really made clear, and it's a very important distinction to make..

Also as a side, proposing to cut a swathe of jobs state-wide (which is exactly what this proposed idea would do) during a nationwide economic recession seems shockingly stupid to me. "I'm going to improve our unemployment numbers.. by adding to them!"

Please accept my apologies for the disjointed nature of this post. I have to do my posting between customer phone calls and emails, so I'm frequently hopping on and off the train of thought.

 

[IDLE]

I couldn't believe when I saw that ad on TV. I would laugh if they put it to a vote and it ended up legal, because most people in this state aren't huge assholes like that guy. It seems to be acceptable to run under the envelope of prejudice this election season.

 

[Randy]

"Gay Marriage Has Consequences!"

This tagline intrigues me.

 

[mmr007]

I really don't care for the 'if you don't like it then you can just get out' mentality. Life is never that simple, and I expect all of you to know better than to go there. One step behind that mentality is "they took our jerbs!!" If it made any sense at all, then *all* the people in.. I dunno.. let's say Detroit? They would just up and move some place that isn't a poverty stricken shit-hole, wouldn't they? Not to mention; Social ignorance doesn't exist in a vacuum, so it would be pointless to move somewhere else to escape it.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand:

Yes, I believe this man is a racist. There, I said it. Forget the policy itself and whether or not any of us agree with it. I believe the intended topic of discussion was whether or not this video was in any way racist, and I believe it is. To me, it's basically saying "We live in Amurikkka. Gorshdurnitt, say it in Amurikkkin, or go bak to yern own cuntry!"

We *do not* have an *official* language in this country. People seem to forget that. The reason we don't now, and never will, is deliberate. Every generation before us -- and plenty of this generation, I hope -- wanted this country to be a melting pot, where anyone could succeed regardless of their social, economic, or national background(s). Discrimination, just generally, is not supposed to be acceptable. Granted, it doesn't group 'language' in with 'race, religion, color or creed', but I feel like it's implied.

That's all supposed to be 'The American Dream'; to be able to pick ourselves up by our boot-straps and make something of ourselves with the sweat off our brow and using our intellect.

(That is all clearly just an opinion; I'm not trying to state it as fact.)

Generally speaking, a license to drive a car is just shy of being a prerequisite to being a productive member of our society. Not every State provides public transportation, let alone *adequate* public transportation. Shall we start counting off all the things we don't seem to want foreign born citizens to have in order to prove that we apparently just don't want 'them' here at all?

The same sense of entitlement that was mentioned in reference to immigrants; White America has it even WORSE. To me, THAT'S what this is about. This douchebag thinks he's entitled to say "Fuck you, this is MY country, and we're speaking MY language in MY country."

I feel that this legislation should not be allowed to even be brought to the table until or unless we -- as a country -- decide to grow a pair and make a *firm* decision about whether or not we have an *official* language. Why should anyone be required to speak a non-official language?

Sidebar: Is he proposing that they need to *speak* English, *read* English, or both? That's not really made clear, and it's a very important distinction to make..

Also as a side, proposing to cut a swathe of jobs state-wide (which is exactly what this proposed idea would do) during a nationwide economic recession seems shockingly stupid to me. "I'm going to improve our unemployment numbers.. by adding to them!"

Please accept my apologies for the disjointed nature of this post. I have to do my posting between customer phone calls and emails, so I'm frequently hopping on and off the train of thought.

everything just said, could not have been said better