To Air or Not To Air Obama's Back to School Speech

[phaeded0ut]

Thought that folks (especially those from other countries) would get a chuckle out of this. Ok, that was my original thought about this issue in trying to keep my disgust in check...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/03/AR2009090300965.html?hpid%3Dtopnews⊂=AR

Some Parents Choose Not to Allow Their Kids to Hear Obama's National Address - Political News - FOXNews.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/04/us/04school.html?_r=1&hp

I'm rather amazed at the level of petty division within this country. The speech in question is about staying in school, going onward and forward to university/college and setting realistic goals. If anything, it is a repeat of what Bill Cosby (tried to get started) did in Detroit, MI. What little political dogma may be within the content of the speech will probably be (again, like Bill Cosby), "... I did it and so can you!" Is this so terrible?

When has a speech from the President of the United States to groups of school children caused such outrage? Are people (in this country) so completely cowed (broken/afraid/terrified) that they don't question why they are so afraid in the first place and what is being said/read/played/watched? Eight or sixteen years (depending upon your political leanings) is not a long period of time. When did people loose their ability to show respect for the office if not the man in said office?

From what I remember of being a student listening to Presidents Carter, Reagan, and Bush, Sr. during their respective terms it was rather a rare privilege if and when they spoke at a school and it was aired to other locations. I understand that there is going to be intense political disagreement/argument, but these over reactions and quite frankly the level of misinformation (on this topic and on several others relative to this Administration) is quite appalling and embarrassing!

 

[xXxPriestessxXx]

I understand that there is going to be intense political disagreement/argument, but these over reactions and quite frankly the level of misinformation (on this topic and on several others relative to this Administration) is quite appalling and embarrassing!

You sir are absolutely correct. So much nonsense has been thrown around about our current president and his administration that it is far beyond embarrassing. For example, a big thing around here during the election was that Obama was a Muslim and was sworn into his Senate position on the Koran instead of the Bible. All of which is totally false. There was a midwest senator that was sworn in on the Koran (can't recall his name right now) but it defiantly wasn't Mr. Obama. The sad thing is that probably less that 10% of the people who were told this even bothered to check if this was remotely true. That being said, the people of the US are trusting too much in the cable news networks like Fox News and taking their word as law. (Not to say that other news outlets aren't just as guilty but Fox seems to be the biggest beacon of misinformation as of late.) Until the citizens decide to actually do some research, think for themselves, and learn some respect then nothing about this is going to change.

 

[phaeded0ut]

There was a midwest senator that was sworn in on the Koran (can't recall his name right now) but it defiantly wasn't Mr. Obama.

That was Congressman Keith Ellison of Minnesota and he was allowed to use Thomas Jefferson's Qur'an for that ceremony.

Profile of Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.), the First Muslim Elected to Congress - washingtonpost.com

First Muslim Elected To Congress - CBS News

 

[CrashRG]

due to 20 parents calling the school board and bitching, mr. obama's speech will not be heard by our school districts. quite a pile of bullshit.

 

[kmanick]

RPOF Press Release - September 01, 2009
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Tallahassee- Â Republican Party of Florida Chairman Jim Greer today released the following statement condemning President Obama's use of taxpayer dollars to indoctrinate America's children to his socialist agenda.

"As the father of four children, I am absolutely appalled that taxpayer dollars are being used to spread President Obama's socialist ideology. The idea that school children across our nation will be forced to watch the President justify his plans for government-run health care, banks, and automobile companies, increasing taxes on those who create jobs, and racking up more debt than any other President, is not only infuriating, but goes against beliefs of the majority of Americans, while bypassing American parents through an invasive abuse of power.

"While I support educating our children to respect both the office of the American President and the value of community service, I do not support using our children as tools to spread liberal propaganda. The address scheduled for September 8, 2009, does not allow for healthy debate on the President's agenda, but rather obligates the youngest children in our public school system to agree with our President's initiatives or be ostracized by their teachers and classmates.

"Public schools can't teach children to speak out in support of the sanctity of human life or traditional marriage. President Obama and the Democrats wouldn't dream of allowing prayer in school. Christmas Parties are now Holiday Parties. But, the Democrats have no problem going against the majority of American people and usurping the rights of parents by sending Pied Piper Obama into the American classroom.

The Democrats have clearly lost the battle to maintain control of the message this summer, so now that school is back in session, President Obama has turned to American's children to spread his liberal lies, indoctrinating American's youngest children before they have a chance to decide for themselves."


Neal McCluskey, associate director of the Center for Educational Freedomnmccluskey@cato.org:

It's one thing for a president to encourage all kids to work hard and stay in school – that's a reasonable use of the bully pulpit. It's another thing entirely, however, to have the U.S. Department of Education send detailed instructions to public schools nationwide on how to glorify the president and the presidency, and push them to drive social change. Frighteningly, this is what President Obama has done.
In anticipation of the president's planned September 8 address to students nationwide, Secretary of Education Arne Duncan sent a letter and detailed "classroom activities" to schools with all sorts of troubling buzzwords and guidance. In his letter, Duncan asserts that the work of educators is "critical to…our social progress." It's a statement that strongly suggests – as many educators have held and continue to hold – that it is the job of public schools to impose values, often collectivist, on students.
The fear that this might be the case is reinforced by classroom activities for pre-K-6 students that encourages children to make posters setting out "community and country" goals. Perhaps even more frightening is the lesson schools are pushed to teach that it is important to listen to "the President and other elected officials." Possibly most distressing of all, though, is guidance that appears explicitly designed to glorify both the presidency and President Obama himself, encouraging schools to prepare for the speech "by reading books about presidents and Barack Obama." And schools are told to ask students how president Obama will "inspire" them in his speech before he gives it, and how they were inspired after Obama has spoken.
This is very disturbing, making crystal clear the huge dangers of government controlling education. Ultimately, politicians will use power over education to indoctrinate children, something completely antithetical to a free society. And this is just the starkest manifestation of the inherent problem with government control of education. Every day free people are pitted against one another in defense of their freedom and basic values because they all have to support a single system of government schools. Evolution vs. creationism. Prayer in school. Books with offensive material in schools libraries. Decisions over whose history will be taught, and whose won't. The curtailment of freedom goes on and on when government takes everyone's money and provides schools with it. Which is why the only system of learning compatible with a truly free society is a system of school choice – public education, not schooling – in which the public assures that all people can access education, but parents are free to choose their children's schools, and educators are free to educate how they wish.
​

 

[MF_Kitten]

america needs to STFU and listen to the best leader they´ve had in a long time. Obama seems like the guy that can actually fix what´s wrong over there at the moment, but it seems like people don´t want the help. it´s almost like they believe they can still reverse the result of the election.

 

[Cyanide_Anima]

sigh. yet another new president, yet more accusations and shit talking and left-right whining. we should be reaming the treasury here, and the bankers. and kick rockefellar's bitch-ass out of congress along with anyone affiliated with him. get all the politicians hands out of the pockets of corporations (who sponsor the campaigns, you really think they do it out of the goodness of their hearts?) or tell them all to fuck off altogether. all of this countries problems stem from money/credit/greed. eliminate interest and fractional reserve banking and we might have a chance at having a decent working system. not likely though. even with a so-called 'honest' system, people are always going to be dishonest when they are rewarded to taking advantage (or at least attemping) of someone else through commerce (read: Business). and when one side loses, they fucking bitch about it, like we are seeing here. GOP's basically lost a deal here, and they are going to lose some progress on thier own agendas, because the lib's are going to further theirs (which for the both parties is the same destination, but different routes). its like a tuG-0f-w4r that no-one ever wins, but the people (us!!!!!!) lose every time.

 

[xXxPriestessxXx]

Would they rather have Bush read them a story book about war heroes with words that he can't pronounce? The more I am reading this the angrier I get.

 

[Cheesebuiscut]

*sigh*

I can't even imagine where people get these ideas... even if he hardcore spent his entire speech doing exactly what they said what freaking kids are sitting there whole heartedly paying attention and absorbing everything he would be saying?

I barely gave a shit what the principle or any of those people in the school were gumming on about when they gave speeches why would I care about the damned president? I just wanted to get out of that class already so I could get home and play videogames.

well hes releasing the speed for review so they can make their own decisions what more could you possibly ask for.

 

[MF_Kitten]

i´ve been thinking about how much this annoys me all day. i just don´t get why the right-wing people think things should stay the way they were... seriously, things have been shit over there, no doubt about it! and then you add the whole "no! we DON´T want your state driven hospitals, we want the welfare of our entire people to rely on privately owned hospitals that are only interested in making money and screwing the patients over, and thus making business out of misery and alienating anyone with a lesser economy from having their health taken care of. that is so much better than letting everyone be taken care of by their country!"

the stupidity behind that is just incredible.

edit: just the fact that the leaders of the schools can decide whether or not the students get to see their leader addressing the nation, infuriates me. that should be up to the individual parent, letting them choose whether or not they want their kid to be there and see it. not too hard, seeing as you just need to not have your kid there while it´s airing. seriously.

 

[kmanick]

sigh. yet another new president, yet more accusations and shit talking and left-right whining. we should be reaming the treasury here, and the bankers. and kick rockefellar's bitch-ass out of congress along with anyone affiliated with him. get all the politicians hands out of the pockets of corporations (who sponsor the campaigns, you really think they do it out of the goodness of their hearts?) or tell them all to fuck off altogether. all of this countries problems stem from money/credit/greed. eliminate interest and fractional reserve banking and we might have a chance at having a decent working system. not likely though. even with a so-called 'honest' system, people are always going to be dishonest when they are rewarded to taking advantage (or at least attemping) of someone else through commerce (read: Business). and when one side loses, they fucking bitch about it, like we are seeing here. GOP's basically lost a deal here, and they are going to lose some progress on thier own agendas, because the lib's are going to further theirs (which for the both parties is the same destination, but different routes). its like a tuG-0f-w4r that no-one ever wins, but the people (us!!!!!!) lose every time.

most excellent and accurate post

 

[phaeded0ut]

Or a rather merry caucus race, eh, Cyanide_Anima? Relative to the argument concerning banking and health issues, I'd posit that there needs to be regulation within the Insurance Industry which has been behind the cause of much of our (and the world's) woes on those two respective fronts.

Relative to the topic at hand, I'm really sorry for those who have had such a great opportunity as this get yanked away because a few folks refused "... to have the maturity to change the channel." That last bit within the quotation marks is a direct Frank Zappa quotation relative to Advisory Labels being placed on record (yes, vinyl at the time) labels as demanded by the Morale Majority (really minority and really Tipper Gore and crowd) to aid parents in sussing out what was and was not good for their children. A real shame.

 

[TheHandOfStone]

"Work and study hard" is a great message (assuming it is the message). It's encouraging the kind of attitude that is sadly absent in most socialist systems. You'd think there'd be more people for this, even if they view Obama as a socialist (I'm looking at you, Michelle Malkin).

 

[synrgy]

Being a citizen of this country becomes more embarrassing with every passing day. When I helped our current president take office, I really thought things might turn around a bit. They're only getting worse.

I know this would NEVER work, but some days, deep in my heart, I wish that we were 2 different countries. "You guys" can be in that country over there, not allowing abortions and having English be the official language even though none of you can even speak it properly, closing all your borders to immigrants and paying for health care with your very lives while shooting each other with your fully automatic weapons that your'e allowed to carry in the fucking street, while "me and mine" hang out in this country over here and fucking PROSPER.

 

[dexmix]

i´ve been thinking about how much this annoys me all day. i just don´t get why the right-wing people think things should stay the way they were... seriously, things have been shit over there, no doubt about it! and then you add the whole "no! we DON´T want your state driven hospitals, we want the welfare of our entire people to rely on privately owned hospitals that are only interested in making money and screwing the patients over, and thus making business out of misery and alienating anyone with a lesser economy from having their health taken care of. that is so much better than letting everyone be taken care of by their country!"

the stupidity behind that is just incredible.

edit: just the fact that the leaders of the schools can decide whether or not the students get to see their leader addressing the nation, infuriates me. that should be up to the individual parent, letting them choose whether or not they want their kid to be there and see it. not too hard, seeing as you just need to not have your kid there while it´s airing. seriously.

Excuse me for not wanting the government to take over one of the best health care systems in the world.

Every US Government program to date - has failed miserably, and somehow you think that nationalized health care will be different then Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid?

To think that the US gov't can run anything with a hint of competence is bat*hit insane.

 

[synrgy]

one of the best health care systems in the world.

Do you REALLY believe that?

I'm only going to base this on my own private, personal experience with my loved ones over the course of my life, but I can tell you emphatically that even though we've all been well insured, we've had to FIGHT for every little fucking bit of care we've ever received. I just *might* still have one of my parents today if the fucking doctors would have cared for her without her having to fight them for 3 years before they would even think about properly diagnosing her.

And for the eighteen bajillionth time -- the government option is just that: an OPTION. It will not replace anything. ALL current providers will still be standing, unless EVERYONE in the country CHOOSES to go for the public OPTION. See USPS, for example. They don't run the game, they just play in it. If they didn't exist, how much more expensive do you think UPS would be?

 

[dexmix]

Do you REALLY believe that?

I'm only going to base this on my own private, personal experience with my loved ones over the course of my life, but I can tell you emphatically that even though we've all been well insured, we've had to FIGHT for every little fucking bit of care we've ever received. I just *might* still have one of my parents today if the fucking doctors would have cared for her without her having to fight them for 3 years before they would even think about properly diagnosing her.

That is truely awful and im sorry to hear that. But that has nothing to do with what i stated.

Have you lived in any other countries? Or do you have friends who live in other countries? or how about friends who have lived in the US, and now live abroad or vice versa? How bad would it be if you guys lived in Canada the UK, or Australia, or Germany - or any other country? The US isn't the only place on Earth, although I feel like too many americans seem to think that.

citing examples of terrible US coverage, doesn't support your case. - i can cite more examples of the horrors from other countries. Or better yet, i can just take the word of some expats.

And for the eighteen bajillionth time -- the government option is just that: an OPTION. It will not replace anything. ALL current providers will still be standing, unless EVERYONE in the country CHOOSES to go for the public OPTION. See USPS, for example. They don't run the game, they just play in it. If they didn't exist, how much more expensive do you think UPS would be?

aside from the fact that UPS has competition via other companies like FedEx so a lack of USPS would have no affect on pricing - basic economics, competition drives down pricing.

The USPS is just another example of Gov't failure.

 

[phaeded0ut]

For the Health Care argument, this isn't the greatest discussion of this very important issue: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/po...s/94393-another-gem-from-the-party-of-no.html

Many thanks to Carl for posting one of the more repeated caveats of this Administration's attempts at Health Insurance Reform. It is only an option, and more likely than not it won't even be a single plan, but multiple choices depending upon what a citizen is able to pay (just like the way a Federal Employee is able to choose and change their health care plans). The hope is that with a larger number of folks applying for a particular company's plan, this will decrease the premiums paid and thus make said plans affordable to those who are currently without because they cannot afford the coverage. The next hope, is that that this will cause other companies who are not within the list to reprice their existing plans. There needs to be a removal of the practice of rescission and denial due to a "pre-existing condition." Great example with USPS, by the by, Carl.

Getting back to the topic at hand of an elected official speaking to school children and giving them a message of encouragement rather than pablum level political dogma. I'm still very shocked at the continued amount of vitriol this has brought forth, especially from folks within the education boards of various schools. Don't get me wrong, I'm of the opinion that everyone should form their own such views, but such overarching and general decisions seem a bit excessive and malformed as to their respective arguments against the broadcast.

Have you lived in any other countries? Or do you have friends who live in other countries? or how about friends who have lived in the US, and now live abroad or vice versa? How bad would it be if you guys lived in Canada the UK, or Australia, or Germany - or any other country? The US isn't the only place on Earth, although I feel like too many americans seem to think that.

aside from the fact that UPS has competition via other companies like FedEx so a lack of USPS would have no affect on pricing - basic economics, competition drives down pricing.

The USPS is just another example of Gov't failure.

Yes, to your first question, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and for a very small amount of time in Ireland (4 months). Yes, to your question, there it becomes a bit longer as far as the list is concerned and quite a number of them are similiar to our own system wherein the patient (and/or the related family) must have more than sufficient funding and in many cases bribe money in order to accomplish reasonable treatment. The point is a comparison of a foreign country's Health Care System vs. our own (USA). I agree there are quite a number of horrid stories for all of the various sides and there are positives and negatives to each one, too. I do not disagree with you in not caring for the possibility of a "Universal Healthcare System." There are too many instances wherein necessary operations take too long or cannot be performed due to religious constraints (I was in Ireland for their highly publicized abortion debacle). However, due to a very broken health care system that has quite a number of problems mainly due to a lack of oversight, and a lack of regulation we are slowly compiling greater debt of funding and of talent due to the lack of regulation within the (USA's) Insurance Industry.

Relative to your comments on USPS, they've had quite a number of mistakes, and no one should doubt that, ... then again, the question is also valid in the reverse, does private industry do much better without mis-steps, falls in profitability and declines of service?

Very good questions, by the by.

Again, please, pardon the tangent.

 

[synrgy]

I don't care how much better it is here than it is in Timbuck 2. That doesn't mean it works, or that it can't be VASTLY improved. So really, none of that matters. Best in the world or worst in the world, it's not fucking working. You could be the best guitar player in the world, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't STILL be trying to improve on your playing.

Anyway, back on the topic at hand with the President's speech to schools:

I don't recall this EVER being an issue before, and that's where *I* take issue. If it wasn't a problem for virtually every President in our history to speak to the public regardless of whatever agendas they were trying to push, why is it suddenly an issue now?

Oh right, I forgot. It's because this president is a foreign born muslim communist socialist Nazi.

I'm terrified about our future. I really am. When all it takes is a few well placed sound bytes to completely convince a considerable portion of our population that blatant fabrications are somehow factual, we're basically fucked, aren't we? Legislatively speaking, thanks mostly to the last administration (and a couple of bills passed during WWI) we're basically fast-tracking to no longer being an open/free society. We have paramilitary forces (blackwater, anyone?), ordinary citizens under warrant-less surveillance, detaining/releasing ordinary citizens without pressing charges, we're restricting the free press, and recasting criticism as 'treason'. Treason is punishable by death, by the way.

 

[dexmix]

However, due to a very broken health care system that has quite a number of problems mainly due to a lack of oversight, and a lack of regulation we are slowly compiling greater debt of funding and of talent due to the lack of regulation within the (USA's) Insurance Industry.

Relative to your comments on USPS, they've had quite a number of mistakes, and no one should doubt that, ... then again, the question is also valid in the reverse, does private industry do much better without mis-steps, falls in profitability and declines of service?

Very good questions, by the by.

Again, please, pardon the tangent.

amazing, you just blew my mind - with intelligent discourse, by acknowledging my logic, and then getting right to the real meat of the argument.

I don't care how much better it is here than it is in Timbuck 2. That doesn't mean it works, or that it can't be VASTLY improved. So really, none of that matters. Best in the world or worst in the world, it's not fucking working. You could be the best guitar player in the world, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't STILL be trying to improve on your playing.

Well don't start an argument about comparing worldwide health care systems, and then say you don't care about other countries. You shoulda just said that from the get-go.

You're arguing that its not working, and I'm arguing that as bad as its working, i don't wish to make the situation worse.
for the record, i don't believe people should be turned away because of pre-existing conditions. I also wish there was some sort of mention for tort reform in the bill (which there isn't) - which is the real cause for sky-rocketing insurance costs.

Anyway, back on the topic at hand with the President's speech to schools:

I don't recall this EVER being an issue before, and that's where *I* take issue. If it wasn't a problem for virtually every President in our history to speak to the public regardless of whatever agendas they were trying to push, why is it suddenly an issue now?

Oh right, I forgot. It's because this president is a foreign born muslim communist socialist Nazi.

I'm terrified about our future. I really am. When all it takes is a few well placed sound bytes to completely convince a considerable portion of our population that blatant fabrications are somehow factual, we're basically fucked, aren't we? Legislatively speaking, thanks mostly to the last administration (and a couple of bills passed during WWI) we're basically fast-tracking to no longer being an open/free society. We have paramilitary forces (blackwater, anyone?), ordinary citizens under warrant-less surveillance, detaining/releasing ordinary citizens without pressing charges, we're restricting the free press, and recasting criticism as 'treason'. Treason is punishable by death, by the way.

I think the real reasone people were up in arms - is because of the content of said curriculum was leaked, and some of us had real issue with what was in it. It's bad enough that we lose complete respect for people on a forum for having a difference of opinion, but such politics and propaganda has no place in grade school or lower.

As far as i'm concerned, any controversial material was removed from the final curriculum that will be circulating, and i don't have issue with that. And the fact that many schools are allowing the parents to preview any material - is good enough for me. As far as I'm concerned a message of hard work and achievement is a politically neutral and positive message.


also - it almost sounded like you valued your individual liberties there for a second? weird, i would have never pinned you as libertarian.