To POD or not to POD, that is the question.

[leechmasterargentina]

Before we start, I'd like the oppinion of people who has experience in electric guitar recording (as a musician or engineer), mostly with real amps in studio, and that has heard recordings fully made with POD HD500 (or X3, XT for the matter).

For several years I've recorded at home as well as in studio and most of the times I've used a Fender Deluxe 112 amp using nearly crappy dynamic microphones with decent results. I play Metal and this amp has given me good results. The only time I didn't record using an amp I used Guitar rig, but took me several hours of tweaking plus using my Fender's clean channel as preamp cause going direct using a generic preamp sucked in sound.

Some months ago I bought a POD HD500. My plan was to record as I was doing with a Korg AX3000G, mike the Amp and record another channel with the direct sound of the Korg going out the remaining output. I not only got the POD, but also bought a Shure SM57, Audio Technica AT2035, and a Rode NT1-A, the 2 lasts being condensers.

I was planning to do the same, mike the amp, direct from an S/PDIF with an amp emulation to interface input. But today I was testing the POD fully direct, with direct output configuration so I could use full emulation of amps (Cabinet/mikes). I tried the Mesa Boogie and the tone/sound is great. I've always avoided emulation cause at some point it sounds digital, emulated and plastic, but now I'm tempted to record guitar tracks this way.

The thing is I either have to go with amp miked, or direct recording because of the modifications in signal the output choice in the POD does, for optimum sound.

I'd like to hear the oppinion of something who's experienced with PODs as well as real amp recordings. I don't wanna re-record guitar tracks afterwards because they sound too digital...

 

[Experimorph]

Go for whatever sounds best in your opinion. A digital tone is no less authentic than a real amp one. With time, trial and error you can make the POD sound just as good as any amp, both live and in studio.

I've been to a couple of live shows where at least one of the guitarists ran direct with the POD, and the decibels being anywhere over 90 I could never tell if the tone was modelled or not. I've seen one guy run a POD through a cab, and he did just as good as the other guitarist with a 6505.

The only drawback to playing direct is the lack of backline amplification, which you may or may not want depending on the situation.

 

[leechmasterargentina]

Go for whatever sounds best in your opinion. A digital tone is no less authentic than a real amp one. With time, trial and error you can make the POD sound just as good as any amp, both live and in studio.

I've been to a couple of live shows where at least one of the guitarists ran direct with the POD, and the decibels being anywhere over 90 I could never tell if the tone was modelled or not. I've seen one guy run a POD through a cab, and he did just as good as the other guitarist with a 6505.

The only drawback to playing direct is the lack of backline amplification, which you may or may not want depending on the situation.

Yeah, I guess I'm gonna make a comparison this afternoon, mike the amp and then compare to the emulation. As for live sound, I've always been an amp guy, but as in studio I always been an amp guy, this experience challenges me to be less conservative. As for the amp when playing live, I don't mind cause in small places, like clubs, the sound is loud behind, but I depend from the PA monitors, and that's what I expect in order to give a quality performance. In bigger/open places, I'm more dependant of the PA monitors since the amp is far, the sound barely gets to where I am, and I even need drums/bass sound in the monitor or I'm lost.

Thanks for the input . I'm just afraid of trusting the HD500 for a full quality recording yet.

 

[leechmasterargentina]

Damn! I just inserted the Screamer in line as some suggestions around for the Meshuggah sound and the Mesa sounds even greater...

Still, I wanna test A/B, Miked vs. Emulated.

 

[shnizzle]

first off, i don´t have experience with recording with real tube amps, but i´m experienced in mixing rhythm guitars that were recorded with real tube amps. and i gotta say, when you know how to fully use the amp models in the pod hd and how to build the signal chain, you can get really awesome sounds. if i may be so bold to show off my latest pod test:

Periphery - Ragnarok (instrumental cover, Pod HD Pro test, by ForTiorI) - YouTube

no impulses, pod only, basic post EQing.

 

[Rev2010]

I'm just afraid of trusting the HD500 for a full quality recording yet.

Nah, don't be. I have a Mesa Triple Rec and my favorite way of recording is using the direct out running into my mixer and then using Guitar Rig for cabinet simulation. This way, I get my preamp/head sound and don't have to mic.

IMO micing an amp in the same room you are sitting IMO is a major pain in the ass. What might sound good using headphones sitting in front of the amp might sound crappy when listening back later on your MP3 player because sound still bleeds through and throws you off. To get the perfect placement I really feel the listener/player need to be isolated from the sound coming out of the amp. And then you need to make sure that mic *does not move*! If it does it's yet again a PITA trying to get it to sound exactly like before.

I've done some scratch recordings over a track or two of mine though where I just used my POD HD straight and just kept it in the end because it sounded good enough I didn't see a need to retrack it with my amp. Depends on what you want to do. If you love your amp and cab and are uber serious about an album you are going to release with your band then by all means mic up your amp and record that way. If it's more casual and maybe you're just recording yourself or whatnot then don't be afraid to just record all your tracks on the POD.


Rev.

 

[leechmasterargentina]

first off, i don´t have experience with recording with real tube amps, but i´m experienced in mixing rhythm guitars that were recorded with real tube amps. and i gotta say, when you know how to fully use the amp models in the pod hd and how to build the signal chain, you can get really awesome sounds. if i may be so bold to show off my latest pod test:

Periphery - Ragnarok (instrumental cover, Pod HD Pro test, by ForTiorI) - YouTube

no impulses, pod only, basic post EQing.

Sorry if I took some time to answer. I saw this message in my laptop but this video deserved to be listened over my M-Audio monitors. If I were to chose taking this video as an example, straight POD! What do you mean by no impulses? I guess it's all POD in the sense of AMP/CAB/MIC emulation, right?

I'm getting the sound, slow by slow, experimenting. I try to build a chain thinking in the real life and so far it works.

Nah, don't be. I have a Mesa Triple Rec and my favorite way of recording is using the direct out running into my mixer and then using Guitar Rig for cabinet simulation. This way, I get my preamp/head sound and don't have to mic.

IMO micing an amp in the same room you are sitting IMO is a major pain in the ass. What might sound good using headphones sitting in front of the amp might sound crappy when listening back later on your MP3 player because sound still bleeds through and throws you off. To get the perfect placement I really feel the listener/player need to be isolated from the sound coming out of the amp. And then you need to make sure that mic *does not move*! If it does it's yet again a PITA trying to get it to sound exactly like before.

I've done some scratch recordings over a track or two of mine though where I just used my POD HD straight and just kept it in the end because it sounded good enough I didn't see a need to retrack it with my amp. Depends on what you want to do. If you love your amp and cab and are uber serious about an album you are going to release with your band then by all means mic up your amp and record that way. If it's more casual and maybe you're just recording yourself or whatnot then don't be afraid to just record all your tracks on the POD.


Rev.

Yeah, I have experience in micing the amp in my own room heh. Maybe I didn't explain this but I make some money out of my songs; so I guess I've done a decent job micing my amp over the years. As you know, if it works once...

I continued experimenting this afternoon and I refined the tone and sound. Sounds really good. BUT...then I plugged the Fender Deluxe 112 amp expecting not to sound as good...and it sounds really good too. But I wanna achieve is a sound of my own, and that's what I feel my amp delivers.

Still if the amp sounds good too, I'll record it tomorrow with the SM57 and the AT2035 mikes over the tube pres. Then I'll compare both sounds on the monitors and choose what I like best.

How I wish I could record using both techiques...but I double my guitars. One side simulated and the other real amped would sound akward, and 4 takes (2 left, 2 right, simulated and real left - right) will probably bring mud to the sound.

Thanks for the input guys!

 

[nothingleft09]

Why don't you try recording a clean signal of your amp and re-amping with the HD500? You can also use the HD500 if i'm correct to play a modeled signal but record a clean signal and re-amp through it also. Give that a try, you can be over looking tones you wouldn't have thought of before and then be blown away and it would also give you the ability to tweak the tone as you go without having a guitar in your hands which is a bonus. I used to do that with my POD XT Pro all the time.

 

[Rev2010]

Maybe I didn't explain this but I make some money out of my songs

Can't see what difference that makes to any opinions myself and anyone else can offer I probably make more money than you overall with my career but I won't be touting that as a reason my opinion is any more valuable than anyone else's

That said, you did ask this exactly - "But today I was testing the POD fully direct, with direct output configuration so I could use full emulation of amps (Cabinet/mikes). I tried the Mesa Boogie and the tone/sound is great"

My point was if you think it sounds great go with it. Or maybe you can get the best of both worlds if your amp has a direct out, so then you can get your amp tone and let the software alleviate the hassle of micing.

Either way, if you are happy with your amp and micing then why change? Stick with it. If you are looking for simplicity in recording with easier consistency then definitely try the digital routes a little more thoroughly.

Rev.

 

[HOKENSTYFE]

I wanted to add my 2 cents. I have a Line 6 POD HD PRO so take this for what it's worth. Use the POD direct. Listen to Dino Cavares of Fear Factory if I haven't convinced you. Dino uses the POD HD PRO for recording & live. I don't think his tone sounds too digital, processed or compressed.

Another guy that goes live and records with a POD HD PRO is, Paul Ortiz, (CHIMP SPANNER). The only difference between the HD500 and the POD HD PRO is the amount of I/O's. Same effects and the whole nine.

My 2 cents so, I hope things work out. Good Luck.

 

[spadz93]

had a pod hd300, got rid of it for a rack, now dying to get a pod hd pro. the hd series is no joke, especially when put next to their older pods. i say take the plunge. once you learn how to use it, youll ask yourself why you didnt buy sooner

 

[Larcher]

save up for an axefx!

 

[leechmasterargentina]

Why don't you try recording a clean signal of your amp and re-amping with the HD500? You can also use the HD500 if i'm correct to play a modeled signal but record a clean signal and re-amp through it also. Give that a try, you can be over looking tones you wouldn't have thought of before and then be blown away and it would also give you the ability to tweak the tone as you go without having a guitar in your hands which is a bonus. I used to do that with my POD XT Pro all the time.

You mean use the SP/DIF and use the option to bypass all what's going out through the analog out? Yeah, thought about that too, but having an HD500 I'm not fond of using VSTs to emulate pedal/amp/cab/mike anymore. I spend resources that I need in the mix/master stage. True you can tweak it in it's full afterwards, but when I get a good sound from scratch, all I do in the mix stage is EQ a bit and that's it. Still, whether if I go real amp or emulated, I still have this choice so it's not out of the board yet. If you meant that I should record the clean signal then route it to the pod and back to the interface, it's possible too, but much of a hassle. Still, a valid option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leechmasterargentina
Maybe I didn't explain this but I make some money out of my songs

Can't see what difference that makes to any opinions myself and anyone else can offer I probably make more money than you overall with my career but I won't be touting that as a reason my opinion is any more valuable than anyone else's

That said, you did ask this exactly - "But today I was testing the POD fully direct, with direct output configuration so I could use full emulation of amps (Cabinet/mikes). I tried the Mesa Boogie and the tone/sound is great"

My point was if you think it sounds great go with it. Or maybe you can get the best of both worlds if your amp has a direct out, so then you can get your amp tone and let the software alleviate the hassle of micing.

Either way, if you are happy with your amp and micing then why change? Stick with it. If you are looking for simplicity in recording with easier consistency then definitely try the digital routes a little more thoroughly.

Rev.

I apologize if it sounded like I was showing-off, but what I meant by that is that my songs have at least a decent sound quality enough for that, and not only I want to keep that but also improve. I think that having invested in the pod as well as good mikes is going to give me that, but as they say, it's not the about the tools but the craftsman.

Of course your oppinion is valuable to me because if you took the time to write here is because you have a certain experience in this matter, and I appreciate that.

It's true that it's more simple to go the emulated way, but I'll make a decision today by micing and recording my amp as well as recording the pod emulation and that should have the final word in what I want.

I wanted to add my 2 cents. I have a Line 6 POD HD PRO so take this for what it's worth. Use the POD direct. Listen to Dino Cavares of Fear Factory if I haven't convinced you. Dino uses the POD HD PRO for recording & live. I don't think his tone sounds too digital, processed or compressed.

Another guy that goes live and records with a POD HD PRO is, Paul Ortiz, (CHIMP SPANNER). The only difference between the HD500 and the POD HD PRO is the amount of I/O's. Same effects and the whole nine.

My 2 cents so, I hope things work out. Good Luck.

Hey, I'm a diehard fan of FF! Sure that having found out that he recorded Digimortal as well as other albums using his pod encourages me to do the same. Still, my sound is not that industrial, so I want guitars to sound real. As I said before, I guess I'll know what I want after having a take of the miced amp.

I've compared the HD500 against the Pro version and I'm proud of having this board. If I'm not mistaken, the only difference besides the shape and the pedals is that the HD Pro has a SP/DIF input too.

had a pod hd300, got rid of it for a rack, now dying to get a pod hd pro. the hd series is no joke, especially when put next to their older pods. i say take the plunge. once you learn how to use it, youll ask yourself why you didnt buy sooner

Sure, I'm even more encouraged to take the plunge, even more after watching the video this dude posted in here!

save up for an axefx!

Heh, We're in a consumist world m8. I bet the AXE FX is kickass but the PODs have their reputation. I'm not a person that buys something, uses it 3 months and then change it. In order to take out the full potential of the POD, I have to experiment, learn. It's a good board, and I'll have it for some time. If I have the money for an AXE and I hear enough to change my mind, I'll consider having both and compare.

 

[leechmasterargentina]

As spadz93 said, I'm gonna take the plunge. It's always good experimenting. Thanks for all the comments!