Too many scales, choosing a subset

[Mr. Big Noodles]

he was, he stumbled on to it by just experimenting. But he didnt do it by reciting harmonic minor over and over, more like choosing notes and making his own phrases.

Sitting down and learning the scale is probably a lot faster. I mean, people figured this stuff out 400 years ago. It's okay to draw from the efforts of your forebearers once in a while. Especially, you know, if you're just going to reproduce the same things that they were working with anyway. I agree with the sentiment, but not with the advice: familiarize yourself with the tried and true conventions so that you can spend more of your time exploring in a fresh musical realm.

 

[terran236]

Sitting down and learning the scale is probably a lot faster. I mean, people figured this stuff out 400 years ago. It's okay to draw from the efforts of your forebearers once in a while. Especially, you know, if you're just going to reproduce the same things that they were working with anyway. I agree with the sentiment, but not with the advice: familiarize yourself with the tried and true conventions so that you can spend more of your time exploring in a fresh musical realm.

Hmm you have a point. That does sound like it could work. But at the same time people who are very expressive can probably make up melodies in their head by just listening to the music they like. Your mind inevitably picks up on melodies, phrasing, rhythm, etc and it comes out in the music one writes like second nature. But I agree, it's nice to know what your doing. Good advice. Rather than flying blind, so-to-speak.

 

[Mr. Big Noodles]

The way I figure it, the people that are super into music that write all the time probably use the language enough that they know how to say what they want to say. Us non-native speakers can benefit from having structure to expedite things and offer a faster link between thought and expression. There's never just one way to do this stuff, but there are certainly avenues that work on a logical level.

 

[stuglue]

Interesting thread.
I have several views on this, some which contradict themselves.
To the OP, I found that for memorising patterns I would take the scale and break it into two string chunks, learn the first six notes and repeat in octaves. Paul Gilbert teaches this approach on his video.
The problem I find with three note per string is due to its physical nature I find them very uncomfortable to phrase with, I guess this comes back to that comment about stale pentatonic licks, they are popular because they can be great for phrasing. Why is that? Well, read the Pat Merheny quote about learning just the chord tones, now look at the minor pentatonic scale, what is it? Really its a minor 7 arpeggio with one extra note. So playing a pentatonic scale is really just taking the metheny approach but your not aware that that is what you are doing. This comes back to the saying , just because you know the scale doesn't mean you have to use every note. I see it as strong and weak tones.
Marty Friedman is one of the few rock guys who understand voice leading and how to navigate chords, its evident in his music, he doesn't sound like he's rolling scales, instead he is aware of what's going on harmonically and he knows what sound he wants and how to play through the changes.
I believe there are three keys elements to improvisation, voice leading knowledge, understanding of which scale gives a certain mood, and the big one rhythm. Knowing notes is one thing, knowing how rhythms feel is key to what people call phrasing, its because of rhythm and how you rhythmically play a line that helps what we know as phrasing.

 

[djyngwie]

I love Marty's playing, and I think he has a point here. Not necessarily that you should work out all scales yourselves (especially not if it's well known ones as the one he uses in that video), but that you should actively listen to the notes you play and the sound they generate in the context of the scale/underlying harmony. Way too many guitar players learn a scale shape and then proceed to play it linearly as fast as possible. That can be a good exercise sometimes, but it has little to do with music. I don't think there's anything wrong with using scale shapes, but remember to listen to what you play and develop a sense of how to use and phrase the scale.

 

[astralsearcher]

lots of good stuff here. Actually Marty Friedman is my favorite guitarist. Rust in Peace will forever be my favorite album of all time. I always wonder how marty comes up with the shit that he does, its so different than most of the other guys. I can play all the rhythms off of Rust and a few of the solos, but I can not seem to get into the guys head of how he chooses what he chooses. even analyzing the notes it doesnt always seem to stay in a particular tonality or 'scale' consistently from measure to measure. I have watched the video posted above and a few others of his and gained a little insight but its still like greek to me.

love that pat methany quote, that is something i can put into practice right now.

great discussion!

 

[TelosHedge]

for anyone interested, i've dissected 3 note per string patterns into smaller 'chunks' that might be easier to remember. i've gotten permission to post this from the OP, i'm not trying to blow up his thread lol.

anyway, give it a read - can't hurt, right?

Mike's Musical Endeavors: Diatonic chunks, 3 notes per string edition.